Prayer vs Meditation for Stress

[HisHomeMaker]

Hmmm... the idea of praying to a saint doesn't make sense to me, but I like the idea of having prayers pre-written for me. I suppose a BCP would work.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The Our Father prayer was "pre-written" for us if you think about it. Christ told us how to pray it specifically. If a prayer strikes a chord with you, then it is good to pray it. If not, then it won't be helpful. I have found that the medievel pre-written prayer "we adore you oh Christ and we praise you, for by your Holy Cross you have redeemed the world!" that is prayed during Lent is POWERFUL. I pray it everyday. But there are some pre-made prayers that don't connect with me. I think spontaneous from-the-heart prayer is awesome and crucial but also it's great to use some ancient prayers that are mystical and connect you to God.

Praying to a saint makes sense in that they are with God in heaven. They are in the beatific vision sharing the un-created light of God. They are in Christ's presence in a state of salvation. They intercede for us as well.

Think about it. You'd ask your friends or friends to pray for you in certain situations. Asking a saint to pray WITH YOU is the norm of the ancient Church and not a saint vs. God dichotomy at all.

The Book of Common prayer has great stuff. The collects are outstanding. But they're pre-written as well. It's all in what you're comfortable with.

I pray mostly straight to the Lord Himself but invoke the Theotokos as well.

Best of luck to you!

Hmmm... the idea of praying to a saint doesn't make sense to me, but I like the idea of having prayers pre-written for me. I suppose a BCP would work.

 

[HisHomeMaker]

The Our Father prayer was "pre-written" for us if you think about it. Christ told us how to pray it specifically.

So true! Thank you.

 

[mark46]

I was somewhat surprised by Adam's reaction. I should not have been. There are those on OBOB who agree strongly with him. For many, meditation is eastern and un-Christian.

We can discuss the various traditions of Christian meditation if we wish. I posted a short summary on the other recent meditation thread. There are also sources for much more discussion.

For me, asking why would any Christian "believe in meditation" is no different than asking why would any Christian believe in the power of prayer or in healing. Meditation and contemplative prayer have been an important part of Christian sprituality for a very long time.
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And I agree with gurney and PV with regard to eastern forms, exercize and discipline. If the lotus position is useful, then use it. If one is interested in martial arts, study them, even though they were developed in the east, and have had spiritual connonations. Just be careful of who you choose as your instructer. My yoga and tai chi instructers specifically avoid any mention of sprirituality. This aspect of their teaching is very important to both of them.
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Yes, I find quiet prayer very relaxing. I find chants very relaxing. I also find yoga, tai chi and meditation relaxing.

With regard to meditation, it is a tool, much as the other disciplines. It is available in a Christian context. It is available in an non-Christian Eastern spiritual context. It is also available in a spiritually neutral context. For example, many hospitals use meditation techniques before surgery, if the patient is willing. Personally, I find that it more important for others to pray for me, and for the doctors and nurses. I am most relaxed when a doctor or nurse notices the cross about my neck and shares a bit of their faith before going forward. This has happened to me several times.

 

[mark46]

When discussing "energy work", I guess you are meaning "reiki" or "healing touch" therapies. I would NOT consider these is any way as a part of Christian prayer.

Some folks would include Christian healing (with laying on of hands) as a category of energy work. Personally, I would not since no acceptance of life energy force or movement of energy is a a part of Christian healing.

For me, reiki is an unproved therapeutic method that may or may not be valuable. Obviously many feel that they have been helped. As long as there is no spiritual content, one is dealing with a medical therapy. I might compare it to the more accepted accupuncture, bio-feedback and chiropracty, with much less medical support of its efficacy.

My CAUTION would be that reiki is often part of a non-Christian sprirituality. This therapy seems different to me than accupuncture or chiropracty. It also is much different from yoga or the martial arts. And finally, reiki is not at all in the same type as Christian prayer or meditation.

So, BOTTOM LINE, I would receommend staying away from "energy work". There are lots of other methods to reduce stress.

Can "energy work" therapies fit with prayer?

 

[Adam Warlock]

^This answer, from Mark, is actually the sort of thing I was inquiring about. Please do not think that I was being sarcastic, and I was not slamming the door on anyone's practices or interests. When I said that I knew very little about how Christians use these things, it's because the few people I've known who got into yoga & meditation walked away from Christianity entirely. I promote Christian mystical and ascetic practices only (bet you didn't know that's a hobby of mine!). However, as I said earlier, techniques that are not of Christian origin, but that have been divorced from New Age or Far Eastern religious practice, are entirely outside my experience. I'm personally not comfortable with the "if it works for you, do it" approach that others might advocate (for reasons that I don't want to share here), but I am interested in learning. So thank you, Mark, for sharing what you did. This is exactly what I wanted to know. Not that I would be interested in practicing these techniques myself, but I like to stay current on the trends.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think, as I said earlier, that you and I are more old-school Christians and we hear about this stuff and instantly think, "oh man, Deepok Chopra and Oprah Winfrey guruism!" and then we picture swamis, the Tubular Bells music from the Exorcist, and people who say, "I'm not religious, man...I'm spiritual...dig it!"

^This answer, from Mark, is actually the sort of thing I was inquiring about. Please do not think that I was being sarcastic, and I was not slamming the door on anyone's practices or interests. When I said that I knew very little about how Christians use these things, it's because the few people I've known who got into yoga & meditation walked away from Christianity entirely. I promote Christian mystical and ascetic practices only (bet you didn't know that's a hobby of mine!). However, as I said earlier, techniques that are not of Christian origin, but that have been divorced from New Age or Far Eastern religious practice, are entirely outside my experience. I'm personally not comfortable with the "if it works for you, do it" approach that others might advocate (for reasons that I don't want to share here), but I am interested in learning. So thank you, Mark, for sharing what you did. This is exactly what I wanted to know. Not that I would be interested in practicing these techniques myself, but I like to stay current on the trends.

 

[HisHomeMaker]

I promote Christian mystical and ascetic practices only (bet you didn't know that's a hobby of mine!).

Can you elaborate? What are mystical and ascetic practices?

I"I'm not religious, man...I'm spiritual...dig it!"

Which brings us to the other thread I started about "Spirituality" being lazy because we create God in our own image to fit our lifestyle. http://www.christianforums.com/t7589358/

 

[mark46]

And I think of St. John of the Cross, St Francis, St. Therese, Thomas Merton and other Christian mystics.

Christian mysticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally, I find it strange that the Western Church has moved so far from its roots and traditions. For me, Christian mystics and ascetic practices are a central part of our Traditions.

I agree with Adam that we must be careful. But, IMHO, we should shut out this very traditional path of spritual growth. IMHO, we speak much too much and listen nowhere near enough. We need to be still more and listen to the gentle whisper of the Holy Spirit.

I think, as I said earlier, that you and I are more old-school Christians and we hear about this stuff and instantly think, "oh man, Deepok Chopra and Oprah Winfrey guruism!" and then we picture swamis, the Tubular Bells music from the Exorcist, and people who say, "I'm not religious, man...I'm spiritual...dig it!"

 

[Adam Warlock]

Can you elaborate? What are mystical and ascetic practices?

Mark's link is a great one. For me, spiritually formative practices that have been especially helpful are fasting and silence. A former spiritual director of mine challenged me to pray in a silent room for one hour, and to make it a weekly habit. At first, it was the hardest thing for me. Over time, it became a source of nourishment and great joy. Prayer ceases to be "me and my needs" or "heal my friend's head cold," and becomes something deeper and more profound. I prayed in a chapel at a nearby seminary that had kneelers and a number of prayer books (including the BCP and an Orthodox prayer book), which helped guide my thoughts. An hour of uninterrupted devotion, listening, and conversation with God is a powerful thing. Silence is also a great means by which to "hear the voice" of God, in a sense. Silence in nature was always my preference, but silence even at home or in a chapel has remarkable benefits.

Fasting's benefits are also well documented, and it's something I have gotten away from participating in. I need to get back to it with more consistency. Self-examination, and journaling of prayer (and answered prayer), are also outstanding means for spiritual growth. In concert with corporate worship, Scripture reading, family devotion, perhaps a spiritual director...God works through all of these things. I'd also add hospitality as an under-utilized means of spiritual growth.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It is my understanding that the meditative/contemplative facet of Eastern mysticism is more of a monastic thing and a Desert Fathers approach, not a typical lay person lifestyle but I could be wrong.

And I think of St. John of the Cross, St Francis, St. Therese, Thomas Merton and other Christian mystics.

Christian mysticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally, I find it strange that the Western Church has moved so far from its roots and traditions. For me, Christian mystics and ascetic practices are a central part of our Traditions.

I agree with Adam that we must be careful. But, IMHO, we should shut out this very traditional path of spritual growth. IMHO, we speak much too much and listen nowhere near enough. We need to be still more and listen to the gentle whisper of the Holy Spirit.

 

[mark46]

"not a typical lay person lifestyle"

Perhaps this is the key. I would tend to agree. However, as I and Adam have both indicated, the typical lay person is missing key disciplines available for spiritual growth. Adam's suggested one hour of sitting in silence is one of the very best traditional Christian disciplines, as is fasting.

It is amazing what God can do if we but sit in silence just a few minutes a day and wait. As the psalmist taught us, "Be still and know that I am God".

It is my understanding that the meditative/contemplative facet of Eastern mysticism is more of a monastic thing and a Desert Fathers approach, not a typical lay person lifestyle but I could be wrong.

 

[Maid Marie]

Something I do to calm me down when stressed or anxious is play hymns on my flute. I get migraines alot and often can abort one before it gets going by playing my flute for an hour or two. I had a bad one earlier [triggered by the stress of all the flooding in my area]. After two hours of playing hymns, I was so much more at peace. Migraine was much tamer, too. I consider this to be my "prayer" time because all the hymns are chosen to represent what I wish to say to God. Instead of focusing on choosing on the right words with which to pray, I play them to God. While I am playing, my soul feels the peace of God decend on me speaking to me in a way that doesn't happen with regular praying.

 

[mark46]

I am reminded of the Little Drummer boy or the woman whose gift was to juggle for our Lady.

Playing hymns on an instrument is a wonderful way to still the mind and open ourselves to God. And yes, it is a time when God's healing touch can affect our infirmities.

That you so much for sharing.

And just BTW, I would certainly call playing hymns on the flute "regular praying"

May the Peace of God go out to all those affected by the floods, and he give a special measure of his Grace and Peace to you.

God Bless

Something I do to calm me down when stressed or anxious is play hymns on my flute. I get migraines alot and often can abort one before it gets going by playing my flute for an hour or two. I had a bad one earlier [triggered by the stress of all the flooding in my area]. After two hours of playing hymns, I was so much more at peace. Migraine was much tamer, too. I consider this to be my "prayer" time because all the hymns are chosen to represent what I wish to say to God. Instead of focusing on choosing on the right words with which to pray, I play them to God. While I am playing, my soul feels the peace of God decend on me speaking to me in a way that doesn't happen with regular praying.

 

[mark46]

I just wanted the underline a quiet time and fasting have been the most effective disciplines for for so many through the ages.

Sadly, spritual directors are hard to find.

Mark's link is a great one. For me, spiritually formative practices that have been especially helpful are fasting and silence. A former spiritual director of mine challenged me to pray in a silent room for one hour, and to make it a weekly habit. At first, it was the hardest thing for me. Over time, it became a source of nourishment and great joy. Prayer ceases to be "me and my needs" or "heal my friend's head cold," and becomes something deeper and more profound. I prayed in a chapel at a nearby seminary that had kneelers and a number of prayer books (including the BCP and an Orthodox prayer book), which helped guide my thoughts. An hour of uninterrupted devotion, listening, and conversation with God is a powerful thing. Silence is also a great means by which to "hear the voice" of God, in a sense. Silence in nature was always my preference, but silence even at home or in a chapel has remarkable benefits.

Fasting's benefits are also well documented, and it's something I have gotten away from participating in. I need to get back to it with more consistency. Self-examination, and journaling of prayer (and answered prayer), are also outstanding means for spiritual growth. In concert with corporate worship, Scripture reading, family devotion, perhaps a spiritual director...God works through all of these things. I'd also add hospitality as an under-utilized means of spiritual growth.

 

[Maid Marie]

I am reminded of the Little Drummer boy or the woman whose gift was to juggle for our Lady.

Playing hymns on an instrument is a wonderful way to still the mind and open ourselves to God. And yes, it is a time when God's healing touch can affect our infirmities.

That you so much for sharing.

And just BTW, I would certainly call playing hymns on the flute "regular praying"

May the Peace of God go out to all those affected by the floods, and he give a special measure of his Grace and Peace to you.

God Bless

Thanks.

I hadn't thought of the little drummer boy but tha would fit. I am not familiar with the story of the lady who juggled. Who would that be?

As for the flute playing being regular prayer....wish I could convince others of that but oh well...

 

[HisHomeMaker]

What is a spiritual director?

 

[mark46]

Le Jongleur de Notre Dame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Le jongleur de Notre-Dame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks.

I hadn't thought of the little drummer boy but tha would fit. I am not familiar with the story of the lady who juggled. Who would that be?

As for the flute playing being regular prayer....wish I could convince others of that but oh well...

 

[mark46]

Spiritual Directors International Home - Spiritual Directors International

Go down the page about half way for a short desciption with a link to more.

What is a spiritual director?

 

[Unshaven]

It is my understanding that the meditative/contemplative facet of Eastern mysticism is more of a monastic thing and a Desert Fathers approach, not a typical lay person lifestyle but I could be wrong.

Oh I don't know about that, the Jesus prayer (The way of the Pilgrim anyone?), lectio divina, and the recitaiton/singing of scripture (particularly the psalms) are things anyone could do, and are certainly encouraged for all.

From my reading of the Fathers on this matter, meditation/contemplation is something for all people to participate in, to rework their scattered desires into a directed passion for God - what really separates the monastic or the consecrated virgin or whatever is the total renunciation of social norms concerning food, sex and status, the laity are expected to practice these only periodically, the prayerful aspect though is much more of a constant for all sections of the church. The only way it is inhibited as such, is by worldly desire which are obviously more of a problem for ordinary laity than ascetics, but it is possible to straddle both the worldly and contemplative life to some measure of success.

I would talk about my own thoughts and experiences on the matter of meditation and spiritual growth, but I don't think I'd find myself comfortable doing so- suffice to say I am at the very start of a very long journey in this department (outer mansions perhaps?).