Prayer for heterodox...

[repentant]

I am not starting this thread to cause a debate, but to educate my fellow Orthodox Christians, about praying for Heterodox, or non-Orthodox people, after their death.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/death/heterodox_burial.aspx

"On August 20/September 2, 1932, the Synod of Bishops reached a decision on the question concerning burial services for the heterodox, and, since it is insufficiently well known that it is forbidden to serve burial services for the heterodox or to have panikhidas sung for them, it has been decided to publish the following explanatory proclamation encyclically, by means of a declaration Addressed to the eminent hierarchs, clergy and all the children of the Russian Church Abroad."


"Being outside the Church during their lifetime, heretics and schismatics stand yet further apart from her after death, for then the very possibility of repentance and of turning to the light of Truth is closed to them. It is quite natural, therefore, that the Church cannot offer up for them the propitiatory Bloodless Sacrifice or, in general, any purifying prayer at all. The latter is clearly forbidden by the Words of the Apostle (cf. I Jn. 5:16). Following the ordinances of the Apostles and the fathers, the Church prays only for the repose of Orthodox Christians that have died in faith and repentance, as living, organic members of the Body of Christ. There may also be included those that had fallen away, but later repented and united themselves to the Church once more (St. Peter the Martyr, Canon III [3]). Without this final condition, they remain alien to the Church and, as members that have fallen away from her, are deprived of the latter's nourishing sap, i.e. the grace-bearing mysteries and prayers of the Church."


"The breadth of Orthodox Christian love—in the name of which ostensibly, the Church's prayers should be permitted for departed Christians, regardless of which confession they belonged to—cannot be extended to include a disregard for the Orthodox teaching of the faith, the deposit of which our Church has preserved within herself throughout the course of centuries, for then every boundary separating the One, True Church of salvation from those that were torn from grace-bearing union with her would be blotted out. The limits of condescension permitted by reason of ecclesiastical economia in regard to those that have fallen away are precisely defined in the holy canons, and no one has the right to extend the boundaries fixed by the holy and divinely-wise Fathers."

"In order to put an end to the scandal which has arisen in the Church over the ecclesiastical commemoration of the heterodox and over the serving of panikhidas for them in particular, the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has considered it necessary once more to remind both the pastors and the Russian Orthodox flock abroad of the intolerability of any departure from the ancient canonical order apart from those provided for in the above-mentioned decrees of the Holy Synod. The flock must not exert pressure of any kind on the conscience of priestly celebrants who are obliged to maintain faithfulness to the ancient, canonical order and to hold high the standard of Holy Orthodoxy before the face of both the other Eastern Churches and all the heterodox as well."

 

[Matrona]

I pray for heterodox who have departed this life. I'm happy to do it, and I'll be happy to do it in the future.

 

[repentant]

http://www.struggler.org/PrayingForTheHeterodox.html

You can not say memory eternal for a non-Orthodox person

"The following is a model of a private prayer which might be said for a non-Orthodox person as suggested by the Elder Leonid, one who was experienced in the spiritual life:

"Have mercy, O Lord, if it is possible, on the soul of Thy servant (name), departed to eternal life in separation from Thy Holy Orthodox Church! Unsearchable are Thy judgments. Account not this my prayer as sin. But may Thy holy will be done!"



"At the end of The Rudder (Russian edition) in a chapter called "Concerning the Apostasy of Rome — how she fell away from the Orthodox Faith and from the Holy Eastern Church," the Pope of Rome and his followers, who wrongly call themselves catholics, are termed heretics. There is nothing to be said about the other Protestant Christian confessions, inasmuch as they have departed even further from Orthodoxy."

"In the tenth chapter, in the sixth canon of the local council of Laodicea, the Holy Church pronounces this judgment on heretics in general: "Heretics should not be allowed to enter the House of God, so long as they persist in their heresy." And in the thirty-third canon of the same Council of Laodicea it is stated: "It is not permitted to pray with heretics and schismatics," that is, those who are separated from the Catholic Church."

"However, our Orthodox Church, in accordance with the love for man which characterizes her, permits prayer for those who have cut themselves off from her, that is, for heretics, as can be seen in The Rudder, Chapter 15, canon 66 and 75 of the local Council of Carthage. But prayers in what regard? Prayers that they leave their delusion and come to the knowledge of the truth."


"In another book, The Orthodox Confession of the Catholic and Apostolic Eastern Church, in the first part of the book at the end of the answer to the ninety-second question, is stated that we are permitted to pray "for heretics and schismatics, that they be converted to the Orthodox Faith before the end of their lives." For example, in the Prayers for Commemoration of the Living and the Dead (at the end of the Horologian Psalter) we pray: "Illumine with the light of Thy knowledge apostates from the Orthodox Faith, and those blinded by pernicious heresies, and unite them to Thy Holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church."

"From the quotations cited above it is clear that our Orthodox Church allows prayer for heretics only while they are still alive, and not for those who have died, and that this prayer is only for their conversion to the Orthodox Faith. When, however, a heretic is, by the prayers of the Holy Church, converted to the Orthodox Faith, then the prayer which the Church makes for him takes on a completely different form, that is, it is for the salvation of his soul."

"But even if the non-Orthodox or heretic were to desire to offer repentance before an Orthodox priest, his repentance for his sins would be ineffective. We read in Part I, Question 113 of The Orthodox Confession: "What must we observe in the mystery of repentance? Answer: First of all, we must observe that the penitent is a Christian of the Orthodox and Catholic Faith, for repentance without the True Faith is not repentance and is not received by God."

"In the eleventh article of Extended Christian Catechism of the Orthodox Catholic Eastern Church it is stated that prayers offered for the souls of the dead are able to help them to attain to the blessed resurrection, especially when these prayers are united to the offering of the Unbloody Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Christ. Yet this is said concerning the souls of Orthodox Christians, and furthermore, of those who have reposed in the faith. How can there be hope of salvation for the soul of one who, while believing wrongly, died in his errors without offering sincere repentance for them before the Lord? And how and for what should one pray as regards such a soul? To pray for his salvation is impossible, because in his life the heterodox did not renounce his errors and did not offer sincere repentance for them before the Lord. It is already too late to pray for the soul's turning to repentance, because the soul after its departure from the body cannot repent, since the future life is not a time for repentance but for recompense."

"One may object: that this is a very strict judgment to pass. But what are we to do? We cannot, after all, force the Lord to mercy with prayer. For our God is "a jealous God" (Ex. 20:5); "Righteous is the Lord, and He hath loved righteousness" (Ps. 10:7). There have been occasions when He Himself forbade prayer for certain people. For instance, He said to the Prophet Jeremias concerning his people: Pray not for these people; neither entreat that they be shown mercy, and do not pray or approach Me concerning them, for I shall not hear thee" (Jer. 7:16). This command of the Lord pertains to people yet alive and who, consequently, are still able to repent. But the prophet did not dare to disobey the word of the Lord, nor justify his prayer for them as a sign of love for mankind."

"In summary, what has been expressed above is founded on Sacred Scripture and the Tradition of the holy Fathers. It naturally leads to the conclusion that to pray with the common prayers of the Church for Orthodox and non-Orthodox on an equal basis is not in accord with the teaching and ordinances of our One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Ecumenical Church. Thus do we speak and thus do we act. And this is not out of hatred toward those Christians who believe wrongly, nor because we do not wish them well,but because our self-composed or self-willed prayer for them will not be pleasing to God, will be without benefit for their souls, and will be accounted as sin for those who pray thus for them."

 

[InnerPhyre]

Much of this seems to be directed at those who have fallen away from the Church. What of those who have not ever been a part of it? My grandfather will soon pass away from lung cancer. He is one of the most humble and devout Roman Catholics I have ever known. Does this mean I am not to pray for him after he passes away?

 

[repentant]

Much of this seems to be directed at those who have fallen away from the Church. What of those who have not ever been a part of it? My grandfather will soon pass away from lung cancer. He is one of the most humble and devout Roman Catholics I have ever known. Does this mean I am not to pray for him after he passes away?

According to the Church, it does. I am not trying to be mean, but if you read the second post, in bold it says that prayers for non-Orthodox should only be done while they are alive, and only so that they may come to Orthodoxy. Otherwise as stated in the prayer I posted, it could be a sin to pray for departed non-Orthodox.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Mike:

Keep those prayers a coming.

We all need prayers in this life and in the next until the Second and Glorious Coming of Christ.

 

[choirfiend]

The Church doesn't offer formal prayers for non-Orthodox by name, but we do, for example, offer prayers for all those who travel, all those who mourn, all in sickness and pain, all those who are suffering, all those who are surviving disasters such as the Tsunami and Katrina...
People praying for inidivuals in private prayer is another matter. There is a ltany for "all those whom each of you have in mind among the living and dead" so this is where we pray for anyone and everyone who needs prayer.

 

[Akathist]

Praying for "memory eternal" is praying for the salvation of another person.

 

[Matrona]

Much of this seems to be directed at those who have fallen away from the Church.

It is. I had a friend who died in a car accident when I was in high school, and since converting I have always placed her on my priest's Soul Saturday lists. As far as I know she wasn't particularly religious, although her funeral was at a Presbyterian church, but it's such a relief to know that I can still, perhaps, help her along the path.

Read the story of St. Xenia of St. Petersburg. She prayed fervently for her husband's soul, and had a vision of him leaving hell.

 

[repentant]

The Church doesn't offer formal prayers for non-Orthodox by name, but we do, for example, offer prayers for all those who travel, all those who mourn, all in sickness and pain, all those who are suffering, all those who are surviving disasters such as the Tsunami and Katrina...
People praying for inidivuals in private prayer is another matter. There is a ltany for "all those whom each of you have in mind among the living and dead" so this is where we pray for anyone and everyone who needs prayer.

That is another thing. I am speaking of the dead non-Orthodox, and praying for their salvation. Of course as humans we will pray for other humans, but the Church has it's teachings on prayer for non-Orthodox dead. This is not my opinion, nothing I do is of my own, but from the Church. (concerning religion and beliefs that is.) So if people on here still want to pray for the salvation of non-Orthodox souls once they have passed, then so be it. Like I stated in the first post, I did not start this thread for debate, but for education. If people insist on ignoring the Church and doing their own will, then so be it.

 

[choirfiend]

That is another thing. I am speaking of the dead non-Orthodox, and praying for their salvation. Of course as humans we will pray for other humans, but the Church has it's teachings on prayer for non-Orthodox dead. This is not my opinion, nothing I do is of my own, but from the Church. (concerning religion and beliefs that is.) So if people on here still want to pray for the salvation of non-Orthodox souls once they have passed, then so be it. Like I stated in the first post, I did not start this thread for debate, but for education. If people insist on ignoring the Church and doing their own will, then so be it.

I am also speaking of praying for those departed. "and for all those among the living and the dead whom each of you have in mind"
You are not understanding even the quotes you post, which have to do with formal liturgical services for the dead. If the Church doesnt give sacraments to those outside the Church in life, neither does it give sacramental prayer to those outside the Church in death.

This has NOTHING to do with private, personal prayers offered outside the Liturgical field.

Lord, have mercy upon the servant Sadi, his sons, and his family.

 

[Akathist]

Repentant, you opinion can be expressed, but you need to stop acting as if you know more than anyone else here. You are NOT A PRIEST.

I suggest that you reword your comments in the future to be more suggestive than directive. YOu are not qualified to give ANY directions here. Only a Priest or Bishop has that ability or a monk, etc.

 

[repentant]

Repentant,
It is very unkind of you to start a post that is so incredibly JUDGEMENTAL and CALLOUS and clearly related to another thread about the death of someone's father..

I did not mean to bring this up in a time like this, but there has been many people posting prayer requests for dead non-Orthodox, and have said nothing, and this man with his last request reminded me. Do not take this wrong, (forgot his name)

FURTHERMORE, you are hardly in ANY position to be educating ME or anyyone else here. When did you get Ordained?

If you quote cannons, does not the cannons say that a man can not be ordained until he is at least 30? How old are you Repentant?.

Was that my opinion I posted? No it was not. So ordained or not, it doesn't matter. I was posting the Church's stance on prayer for departed non-Orthodox, you don't need to be ordained to do that. And since when do you need to be ordained to be a theologian? (not that I am)..go tell a monk of 30 years on Mt. Athos, he can't teach what the Church teaches because he is not ordained.

Praying for "memory eternal" is praying for the salvation of another person.

Who are you to judge the salvation of others?

Am I to start to pray to YOU , since you are putting yourself in the place of God to judge others? No, of course not!.

I know "memery eternal" is praying for the salvation of another person, but if you read the article, it clearly says, praying for the salvation of a persons soul is..only meant for Orthodox Christians
And who did I judge? Tell me. When did I put myself in the place of God and judged other's? Where did u see that? Everything I posted was from the Church, not me. The Church can judge who is Orthodox or not, and who it can pray for the salvation of.

I forgive you for not knowing just how you come accross. YOu are young and don't know any better.

I came across exactly how I wanted too, giving the Church's stance on prayer for non-Orthodox. Again this is not my opinion, as so many of you like to throw around, but the Church's view. If you don't like it, that's your problem. But remember, this type of prayer can be a sin, and that is why I posted this in the first place. And I'm 26 by the way..

 

[repentant]

I am also speaking of praying for those departed. "and for all those among the living and the dead whom each of you have in mind"
You are not understanding even the quotes you post, which have to do with formal liturgical services for the dead. If the Church doesnt give sacraments to those outside the Church in life, neither does it give sacramental prayer to those outside the Church in death.

This has NOTHING to do with private, personal prayers offered outside the Liturgical field.

Lord, have mercy upon the servant Sadi, his sons, and his family.

No I understand exactly what I posted..you obviously didn't. The FIRST post was about Church services and prayer for departed non-Orthodox, the SECOND post was for personal prayers of departed non-Orthodox. Read it again.

 

[repentant]

Repentant, you opinion can be expressed, but you need to stop acting as if you know more than anyone else here. You are NOT A PRIEST.

I suggest that you reword your comments in the future to be more suggestive than directive. YOu are not qualified to give ANY directions here. Only a Priest or Bishop has that ability or a monk, etc.

A. This is not my opinion, but that of the Church.
B. I cut and pasted an article, so which comments should I reword?
C. We are all qualified if we know the truth. Again, not my opinion. Do you people realize this?

 

[Akathist]

Repentence, you did not give the Church's stance on this. It is directly opposed to what my Priest has told me.

I will take what my priest has said.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

To be fair to Repentent, not once did he state "this is my opinion." From what I gather, he read this in an article, thought it to be worth sharing with the rest of us and posted it. If you choose to disagree with it, that is your choice, but to call him judgmental is going a little far.

Now, if you want to question the validity or the authority of the piece he pasted, that is another thing, but don't be throwing character insults around when his intent was never to judge but rather to educate.

Just my two cents...

In XC,

Maureen

 

[repentant]

Repentence, you did not give the Church's stance on this. It is directly opposed to what my Priest has told me.

I will take what my priest has said.

YOur post is callous and judgmental and inappropriate.

That is fine, I will take the decision of a SYNOD, you can listen to your Priest. It doesn't matter to me, I did not post this for debate.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

 

[choirfiend]

I'm just going back to my happy ignoring. Things are better that way.