Prayer book versions in ACNA

[The Liturgist]

There is actually a rubric in the 79 prayer book only allowing for use of authorized hymns. Though we do have a lot of hymnals authorized, with 5 currently allowed IIRC.

Do you know of any dioceses in which the rubrics of the 1979 BCP are actually strictly enforced these days?

 

[Deegie]

There is actually a rubric in the 79 prayer book only allowing for use of authorized hymns. Though we do have a lot of hymnals authorized, with 5 currently allowed IIRC.

Could you please point me to that rubric? I can't seem to find it. My recollection is that hymn texts have to be authorized but not musical settings. Of course I could totally be making that up. Canon II.5 gives "final authority in the administration of matters pertaining to music" to the clergy, which I think most take as license to not feel constrained by any particular list of hymnals.

 

[Arcangl86]

Could you please point me to that rubric? I can't seem to find it. My recollection is that hymn texts have to be authorized but not musical settings. Of course I could totally be making that up. Canon II.5 gives "final authority in the administration of matters pertaining to music" to the clergy, which I think most take as license to not feel constrained by any particular list of hymnals.

Page 13. "Hymns referred to in the rubrics of this Book are to be understood as those authorized by this Church. " is what I was referring to. I remember it becoming an issue at a camp I used to work at because some of the songs we sang around the campfire couldn't be used in worship.

 

[The Liturgist]

Page 13. "Hymns referred to in the rubrics of this Book are to be understood as those authorized by this Church. " is what I was referring to. I remember it becoming an issue at a camp I used to work at because some of the songs we sang around the campfire couldn't be used in worship.

So just out of curiosity, in the case of liturgical outliers like St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco, or for that matter St. Thomas Fifth Ave in New York (which uses the structure for Evensong closer to that of the 1662 BCP, or the 1928 Deposited Book, or the 1926 Irish or 1929 Scottish or 1962 Canadian editions of the BCP, albeit without commemorations of the British monarchy, but with the longer Preces and the omission of the canticle Phos Hilarion), is there a formal process by which these parishes are getting a pass, or are the rubrics just not tightly enforced? I am guessing the latter, since my friend Fr. Bryan Owen and others have mentioned to me the existence of parishes which still use the 1928 BCP despite this not technically being permitted.

 

[Deegie]

Page 13. "Hymns referred to in the rubrics of this Book are to be understood as those authorized by this Church. " is what I was referring to. I remember it becoming an issue at a camp I used to work at because some of the songs we sang around the campfire couldn't be used in worship.

Thanks for that! Not sure how I missed it. Now the next question, of course, is where one finds the authorized list of hymns (or, presumably, hymnals). I can't find anything in the rubrics, the Constitution and Canons, or in resolutions of General Convention authorizing any of the current hymnals. I feel like this is something I should know but I've never seen it.

 

[Arcangl86]

Thanks for that! Not sure how I missed it. Now the next question, of course, is where one finds the authorized list of hymns (or, presumably, hymnals). I can't find anything in the rubrics, the Constitution and Canons, or in resolutions of General Convention authorizing any of the current hymnals. I feel like this is something I should know but I've never seen it.

When I asked the chaplain who pointed this out to me, he told me something along the lines of that we have never deauthorized a hymnal and that anything in a hymnal that has ever been authorized is still useable. This was also before we came out with the hymnal that actually was designed for children, who's name I'm blanking on right now.

 

[Deegie]

So just out of curiosity, in the case of liturgical outliers like St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco, or for that matter St. Thomas Fifth Ave in New York (which uses the structure for Evensong closer to that of the 1662 BCP, or the 1928 Deposited Book, or the 1926 Irish or 1929 Scottish or 1962 Canadian editions of the BCP, albeit without commemorations of the British monarchy, but with the longer Preces and the omission of the canticle Phos Hilarion), is there a formal process by which these parishes are getting a pass, or are the rubrics just not tightly enforced? I am guessing the latter, since my friend Fr. Bryan Owen and others have mentioned to me the existence of parishes which still use the 1928 BCP despite this not technically being permitted.

It's a great question. First off, I'm pretty sure use of the 1928 BCP is still actually allowed. When the 1979 BCP was approved (in resolution 1979-A121), congregations were specifically allowed to continue using the 1928 as long as there was also "regular and frequent use of the 1979 Book." That was reaffirmed in 2000-B042 as long as it is "occasional use under the ecclesiastical authority subject to the guidelines for supplemental liturgical materials." Do congregations stretch that? Absolutely. But I would argue that it is used occasionally. On the occasion of every service. LOL.

Now to the meat of your question...most bishops don't really care as long as congregations aren't doing something really troubling (and some still don't care even when they are). Also, there is some real misunderstanding about what bishops can authorize. Some think that bishops can give a free pass for almost anything -- a position I never believed. But it's gotten more complicated. In 2018, in the same resolution which memorialized the 1979 BCP, was found: "Resolved, That bishops engage worshiping communities in experimentation and the creation of alternative texts to offer to the wider church." So there appears to be explicit permission for bishops to authorize liturgical experimentation. So perhaps bishops can approve just about anything right now?

So...short answer: no, rubrics are not tightly enforced. Longer answer: it's a little more complicated.

 

[Deegie]

When I asked the chaplain who pointed this out to me, he told me something along the lines of that we have never deauthorized a hymnal and that anything in a hymnal that has ever been authorized is still useable. This was also before we came out with the hymnal that actually was designed for children, who's name I'm blanking on right now.

Yes, I've heard that as well. But I can't find anything indicating that we've authorized anything since the Hymnal 1982, even though I know we have. And I believe the hymnal you're looking for is called My Heart Sings Out.

 

[Arcangl86]

Yes, I've heard that as well. But I can't find anything indicating that we've authorized anything since the Hymnal 1982, even though I know we have. And I believe the hymnal you're looking for is called My Heart Sings Out.

YES! Thank you!

 

[Shane R]

First off, I'm pretty sure use of the 1928 BCP is still actually allowed

Indeed. The Prayer Book Society keeps a list of parishes that still use it as the primary text. Most of them are Continuing churches these days (many of which are lying and actually use the Anglican Missal) but I had a parishioner a couple of years ago who still belonged to a 1928 TEC parish in the Houston metro. There's a small swathe of them through East Texas and they tend to be sizeable. The local diocese has the good sense to leave them be and do what they do so long as the diocesan tithe comes in.

There are a few ACNA parishes on 1928 as well. I know of one in San Antonio. It's frowned upon but ACNA has no internal discipline.

 

[The Liturgist]

Indeed. The Prayer Book Society keeps a list of parishes that still use it as the primary text. Most of them are Continuing churches these days (many of which are lying and actually use the Anglican Missal) but I had a parishioner a couple of years ago who still belonged to a 1928 TEC parish in the Houston metro. There's a small swathe of them through East Texas and they tend to be sizeable. The local diocese has the good sense to leave them be and do what they do so long as the diocesan tithe comes in.

There are a few ACNA parishes on 1928 as well. I know of one in San Antonio. It's frowned upon but ACNA has no internal discipline.

Speaking of which, my non-profit group is nearly finished with the BCP Editio MMXXIII, which is modularized, with one configuration being in many respects a hybrid of the old Anglican Missal and the 1928 BCP. The initial release however will have the Sarum Rite Mass as one of a few alternatives to the 1928 Holy Communion Service, but not the Propers from the Missal, however, the rubrics for the Sarum Rite Mass are being structured to provide a set of propers for different liturgical seasons where these are not provided for in the Gospel, Epistle and Collect, to cover the Secret, the Gradual, the Tract or Alleluia and other variable parts of the Mass. However, the modular nature will allow for the propers from the Missal to be substituted for those from the Prayer Book once we have digitized them. And then my hope is that we will be able to integrate the propers, so that there will be a single set of enhanced propers that will provide a range of information beyond the epistle, gospel and collect, by integrating material from the 19th century Directorum Anglicanorum and Ritual Notes, so that everything up to and including suggested liturgical colors will be provided for. This is being put in a database, which will be accessible for an online version that will function like sanctamissa.org and which will also be able to generate a variant output for a printed BCP. My hope is that this project will allow for the reconciliation of the Missal Catholics with the Prayer Book Catholics in the Continuing Anglican movement.

On that note, I may be joining a small Continuing Anglican province as a priest. I am presently in discernment with their bishop. I am committed to helping them one way or another as they are at risk of collapsing, and I have a plan, and so the elderly bishop and I are engaging in prayerful discernment about how best to move forward. Prayers both for the province in question and my discernment process with them are desired.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

No, I'm thinking of the responses which run thus (my bold):

Priest: O Lord, shew thy mercy upon us.
Answer. And grant us thy salvation.
Priest. O Lord, save the King.
Answer. And mercifully hear us when we call upon thee.
Priest. Endue thy Ministers with righteousness.
Answer. And make thy chosen people joyful.
Priest. O Lord, save thy people.
Answer. And bless thine inheritance.
Priest. Give peace in our time, O Lord.
Answer. Because there is none other that fighteth for us, but only thou, O God.
Priest. O God, make clean our hearts within us.
Answer. And take not thy Holy Spirit from us.

Even in Australia the prayer for the king's majesty is seldom heard.

We are Lutherans, and we pray for our King al the time. Seriously.

 

[RileyG]

We are Lutherans, and we pray for our King al the time. Seriously.

Within the liturgy?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Within the liturgy?

Yes.

Here is but one example:

 

[RileyG]

Yes.

Here is but one example:
View attachment 333796

Interesting! Thanks