Prayer and Providence

[darknova]

Hi,

Does prayer change God to be different or act differently if there were no prayer? Also does God ever act in the Universe other than holding it in existance?

These two questions are more part of the greater question which is, how can God help people with the minor things that people claim He helps them with when horrible things happen, none of which God seems to stop. This could be finding a parking space, relieving a headache, getting someone a job, making legs grow, or holding together a marriage, apparently even bringing someone back from the dead.

These are all good things, but still horrible things happen that I hope I don't have to mention. Of course sometimes very evil things are brought to an end, but where is God in these things. Unlucky I heard on the news today that years ago an 11 year old was kidnapped on a school trip, abused and then held captive for two decades. Why was God healing someones headache while this happening? Apparently God talks to Christians, sometimes telling them what to do with their lives..... why couldn't He be tell someone how to help this girl?

Why does God do the trivial while the important things stay the same, even if people pray for those things? A greater good, what good?

 

[drich0150]

Hi,

Does prayer change God to be different or act differently if there were no prayer?

God does not change, but sometimes He does wait to hear from us before acting. That said, know that prayer is not a christian wishing ceremony either. Their is a reason for prayer and asking for things is not the primary purpose of prayer.

Also does God ever act in the Universe other than holding it in existence?

Without a doubt, yes.

These two questions are more part of the greater question which is, how can God help people with the minor things that people claim He helps them with when horrible things happen, none of which God seems to stop.

If the truly horrible things were "stopped" or never happened, then how can one say God did not stop them from happening? How would you ever know?

This could be finding a parking space, relieving a headache, getting someone a job, making legs grow, or holding together a marriage, apparently even bringing someone back from the dead.

Indeed, Stopping the holocaust, ending WWII, Giving Jerusalem back to the Jews, Keeping us from destroying ourselves during the cold war, Helping us keep the terrorist from detonating a dirty bomb on US soil, and on and on and on... Can all be added to the list.

These are all good things, but still horrible things happen that I hope I don't have to mention.

Bad things happen because we live in a world of sin and consequence. This was our choice to live Here, we made it this way.

Of course sometimes very evil things are brought to an end, but where is God in these things. Unlucky I heard on the news today that years ago an 11 year old was kidnapped on a school trip, abused and then held captive for two decades. Why was God healing someones headache while this happening?

So free will should be switched on and off if you do not approve on how it is used? So we (Including God) should all be praying that Dark nova's will be done in heaven and on earth as you see fit? Those people chose to exercise their "free will" in an act of Evil. Evil is the proof that free will exists. Take away that proof and you take away free will.

Apparently God talks to Christians, sometimes telling them what to do with their lives..... why couldn't He be tell someone how to help this girl?

How do you know He did not? How do you know He did not tell you? Can you hear God? Perhaps no one was listening. Perhaps after a few year the girl did not want to go. Who truly knows?

Why does God do the trivial while the important things stay the same, even if people pray for those things?

Why don't you ask God?

A greater good, what good?

So that you may learn what it is prayer is supposed to be about.

 

[darknova]

Hi,
God does not change, but sometimes He does wait to hear from us before acting. That said, know that prayer is not a christian wishing ceremony either. Their is a reason for prayer and asking for things is not the primary purpose of prayer.

The main purpose is communication with God or worship of God isn't it?

Without a doubt, yes.

Does God act in the little things (individual lives) or only worldwide events?

If the truly horrible things were "stopped" or never happened, then how can one say God did not stop them from happening? How would you ever know?

This may be true, but I have heard many Christians say that something bad was happening and then God evidently acted in the situation and stopped it. So it wasn't that God totally stop the event from the start, but that He stopped it halfway through, like healings.

I guess I should be asking, why doesn't God stop more major evil, perhaps allowing lower evils? To this you might say that then the minor evils would appear major so this could be the case today. The problem I have with this is that I cannot imagine anything more evil that hasn't happen in history already.

Indeed, Stopping the holocaust, ending WWII, Giving Jerusalem back to the Jews, Keeping us from destroying ourselves during the cold war, Helping us keep the terrorist from detonating a dirty bomb on US soil, and on and on and on... Can all be added to the list.

How do we know God did these things? WWII ended but only after millions died, some very horrible deaths.

Bad things happen because we live in a world of sin and consequence. This was our choice to live Here, we made it this way.

Most people don't choose the worst things that happen to them to happen. I mean if all people were about as moral as the average person (say me or you) then the major evils we see now and in the past wouldn't have happened.

So free will should be switched on and off if you do not approve on how it is used? So we (Including God) should all be praying that Dark nova's will be done in heaven and on earth as you see fit? Those people chose to exercise their "free will" in an act of Evil. Evil is the proof that free will exists. Take away that proof and you take away free will.

If God is real then I would assume that many of the things I call evil (murder, torture, rape, child abuse) God also calls evil. I'm not asking God to change His morals but asking why he doesn't act on them. Also this doesn't require the loss of free will. You already said that God stopped major evils in the past. By giving good people supernatural help perhaps.

How do you know He did not? How do you know He did not tell you? Can you hear God? Perhaps no one was listening. Perhaps after a few year the girl did not want to go. Who truly knows?

If I knew where she was and what was happening might I not shout it into someones ear rather than whisper and hope someone hears?

Why don't you ask God?

If God could tell people that easily then wouldn't there be alot less conflict in theology?

So that you may learn what it is prayer is supposed to be about.

So God allows evil so that I learn to draw close to Him?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[drich0150]

The main purpose is communication with God or worship of God isn't it?

Yes it is, do you call a personal wishing ceremony, communication or worship of God?

Does God act in the little things (individual lives) or only worldwide events?

Why does it have to be either or? Isn't God by definition able to do both?

This may be true, but I have heard many Christians say that something bad was happening and then God evidently acted in the situation and stopped it. So it wasn't that God totally stop the event from the start, but that He stopped it halfway through, like healing.

Because evidently something was to be gain from the bad thing when it started to happen.

Lets say that inorder for you to start your own business you must first be fired from your job, in a really really bad way. Because the humiliation you received it charges you to reinvent yourself, and you use that one event you inspire you to do all of the hard work and so on and so fourth to become successful (10 or 20 years later) Now should you have been protected from ever being fired in the first place because it was (at the time) the worst thing that ever happened to you? Or does the greater good prevail? What if you were limited to only your present day perspective? would you want someone to have your greater good in mind or would you simply want what you believe to be safe?

I guess I should be asking, why doesn't God stop more major evil, perhaps allowing lower evils? To this you might say that then the minor evils would appear major so this could be the case today.

good call.

The problem I have with this is that I cannot imagine anything more evil that hasn't happen in history already.

and if a minimal evil is all you could ever know then from where would greater imaginings of evil come from?

Meaning as you explained if Hitlers Germany and all that died represent a level 1 on the evil scale then how could you possible conceive what level 10 looks like? level 100? 1000?

How do we know God did these things? WWII ended but only after millions died, some very horrible deaths.

How do you know that He didn't? Your answers are just as subjective as mine.

Most people don't choose the worst things that happen to them to happen. I mean if all people were about as moral as the average person (say me or you) then the major evils we see now and in the past wouldn't have happened.

I've come to a place were I do not ask or question or judge the evil of man any more. Because i understand that Evil is a necessary evil to provide this world with true choice/Free will.

If God is real then I would assume that many of the things I call evil (murder, torture, rape, child abuse) God also calls evil.

Actually He defines Sin as anything not in the Expressed Will of God. He defines Evil as a malicious intent to commit sin.

Not all sin is evil but all evil is sin.

I'm not asking God to change His morals but asking why he doesn't act on them.

Because Evil is the proof that freewill exists.

Also this doesn't require the loss of free will.

Actually it does.

You already said that God stopped major evils in the past.

At the expense of the lives of those who are evil and out of control. The Flood, Sodom, The command to Kill All living member of certain tribes who opposed Israel, And on and on and on. The way God intervenes is by the death and destruction of those in whom live to be Evil. There by Closing anymore opportunity the may have in choosing or maintaining a malicious intention to be outside the expressed will of God.

By giving good people supernatural help perhaps.

If God soften the blows of our decisions/sins Every time we get ourselves into trouble then what is the purpose of this life?

If I knew where she was and what was happening might I not shout it into someones ear rather than whisper and hope someone hears?

While writing this i have Iron man playing in the back ground rather loudly. I have absolutely no Idea at what point I am in this movie. Why because no matter how loud the volume is I am not listening. The same is true with you and God. It is not a matter of volume, it all comes down to your ability to hear what is said. If you want to hear what is said then ask God to change what ever he must in your life to open your ears. (It really is that simple)

If God could tell people that easily then wouldn't there be alot less conflict in theology?

To those who do indeed listen, there is very little conflict. Why do you think (for the most part) that so many different 'christians' can come here dispense advise and not be in constant conflict when their advise does not compliment another's doctrinal beliefs?

So God allows evil so that I learn to draw close to Him?

God allows Evil because Evil is the truest expression of "free will" that we have. (That is the secret or purpose of this life, to excessive "free will" and choose where we want to spend eternity) You drawing closer to God because you may be confused or scared by Evil is just a bonus.

Thanks for your reply.

Thank you for the opportunity