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Pot thread...

ThatRobGuy

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I noticed another thread on here earlier pertaining to marijuana. I notice it's not here anymore, but I had some points about it I wanted to discuss.

I've always thought that pot was illegal because the government couldn't find a way to tax it and make the kind of money they make off of taxing alcohol. Because, in reality, alcohol is more harmful than marijuana....am I wrong???

If you have a different opinion on why pot remains illegal in this country...please share with us.
 

trunks2k

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Note: I do not smoke marijuana, not my thing.

If you have a different opinion on why pot remains illegal in this country...please share with us.

Why it still remains illegal? My guess would be because the government has run a successful propaganda campaign. The idea that "drugs are bad" has been driven into our collective minds so much that most people just accept it as a fact. So when some people, particularly politicians, question that meme, it causes a controversy. "How could they possibly think of legalizing pot, don't they know it's bad?!"
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Note: I do not smoke marijuana, not my thing.

I haven't done it in 3-4 years...just for the record

trunks2k said:
Why it still remains illegal? My guess would be because the government has run a successful propaganda campaign. The idea that "drugs are bad" has been driven into our collective minds so much that most people just accept it as a fact. So when some people, particularly politicians, question that meme, it causes a controversy. "How could they possibly think of legalizing pot, don't they know it's bad?!"

I definately think that certain drugs should be illegal: like ecstasy, heroin, crystal meth...you know, the one's that can actually hurt you. I do agree with you 100 percent about the propaganda that's pumped into our minds about pot....like the commercials showing someone losing their sibling at a state fair, and about pot funding terrorism...which is odd being that most of it grows wild right here in our own country (that's why they call it weed...it is an actual weed).
 
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Saeph

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Why it still remains illegal? My guess would be because the government has run a successful propaganda campaign. The idea that "drugs are bad" has been driven into our collective minds so much that most people just accept it as a fact. So when some people, particularly politicians, question that meme, it causes a controversy. "How could they possibly think of legalizing pot, don't they know it's bad?!"

But why is alcohol legal - although it's more harmless?
 
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trunks2k

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But why is alcohol legal - although it's more harmless?

Because there's no government propaganda machine working against it. There's a lot of arguments that there was a whole movement against pot in the first place was due to large established industries like tobacco, to which pot would be a threat. Early on, much of the propaganda had racist messages behind it. I recall people saying that pot would make black people become violent against white people.

Also, at the time most people did not smoke pot. But most people consumed alcohol, which saw a big back lash when it was declared illegal. Pot on the other hand, didn't see that backlash. Though, we do see many of the similar effects as to that of prohibition.
 
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rambot

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There's a lot of arguments that there was a whole movement against pot in the first place was due to large established industries like tobacco, to which pot would be a threat
Actually, the movement against pot started because of Dupont. Hemp was seen as a rival to new products Dupont was putting out (polyester specifically). Hemp, which at the time was grown and harvested mainly in Mexico (though there were quite a few farms in the southern US), became a victim of private propaganda. One of the great examples of how major companies and corporations try to subvert local and individual businesses.

Oh that and...what's his name...the really crazy newspaper mogul of the 20s. He smeared it up good in his newspapers.

The government was responsible for being b-slapped and being unobjective; for taking terrible, TERRIBLE studies and validifying (is that word?) them. My favorite one was of the guy (can't remember his name) who did "The Monkey Tests". He gave 20 monkeys HIGH grade Colombian MJ smoke steadily through a GASMASK for 20 minutes. Then he noticed that the monkey's performance on tests diminished (no duh...)
Since the 70s, the VAST majority of studies have pointed to the relatively innocuous effects of pot compared to other drugs.

I think (I'm going to assume you're talking about the US here) that the problem in the US is that law enforcement is willing to allocate the resources; i'm not sure it's a matter of legality. In the US and in Canada, possession is illegal. In Canada, if they find a few joints on your, they'll take it away (heck, an old friend of mine used to deal [don't ask] and the cops let him off with a warning!). Judging by annecdotal evidence, that would NEVER happen in the US.

So I'm not sure it's a matter of legality so much as a matter of law enforcement priority.
 
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Cerberus~

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Harry Anslinger is the man responsible for our current pot laws. He sold his lies and ignorance as gospel by touching on the ignorance and gullability of the people and the rampant racism that existed back then, which is a nice little bit of trivia if you ever wanted to know why we call it marijuana when there are several english words for it.

We didn't like all the Mexicans coming over here during the depression offering cheap labor, so you find ways to target them, so outlaw their drug of choice. If you wanted to attack rich, white males, and give yourself a reason to arrest them, make their brandy illegal.

Then black jazz musicians started using it, and whitey didn't like the little negros running around happy go lucky, so they said blacks on pot were going around raping white women. Same with the Chinese and opium. Racism is at the core of most drug laws.


People look at the "War on Drugs", and just shrug it off as, oh well, I don't use drugs, Drugs are bad, they just shouldn't have been doing that", but I laugh at those people. These laws opened the door to the death of our freedom. Those fools are complicit in selling themselves and their children out for nothing, for ignorance and racism. They'll get what they deserve.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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Substance abuse is a (post-)modern phenomenon, by and large. Prior to the industrialization and the rise of consumerism/capitalism, drugs weren't much of an issue.

Think about it: drug trafficking is the epitome of capitalism. You sell a product that no one really needs, and quickly create an ever-increasing demand that allows you to sell more of the stuff and raise your prices all the time. And people happily buy it once they're hooked, experiencing the altered state of mind as a pastime rather than, say, a spiritual experience.

Alcohol is treated differently because it was an integral part of the daily meal for so long: in the middle ages, slightly alcoholic beverages not only gave you a few badly needed extra calories, they also lowered your chance of being infected by some of the nastier micro-organisms that were to be found in "pure" water.
 
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Inviolable

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I noticed another thread on here earlier pertaining to marijuana. I notice it's not here anymore, but I had some points about it I wanted to discuss.

I've always thought that pot was illegal because the government couldn't find a way to tax it and make the kind of money they make off of taxing alcohol. Because, in reality, alcohol is more harmful than marijuana....am I wrong???

If you have a different opinion on why pot remains illegal in this country...please share with us.

How come they cant tax it?
If it becomes legal wouldnt it be sold in stores and wouldnt there be a sales tax?
 
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Moros

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1. Pot is a major economic competitor to beer and liquor, even as it remains illegal. Legalizing would only make it more so. Not only are the government and beer corporations buddy-buddy, but some state governments operate liquor stores which abide by certain federal rules.

2. There is a way to make it taxable, and that is to sell it out to big tobacco. Pot's also somewhat of a minor competitor to cigs.

3. There's really no reason not to legalize it based on the tax argument.

4. Another argument is that the USA has a drunk-driving pandemic (which is not true, but sensationalized by pain in the ass groups such as MADD) and that legalizing pot would only contribute to DUI and DWI crime statistics. This is true, sure; stupid people would get stoned and drive. But we don't have a drunk driving "problem" in this country really, drunk drivers are few and far between in most parts of the nation, and cops are dilligent about nailing them, and the laws are harsh. People are going to be stupid and drive, regardless of the substance.

5. Terrorists sell pot, and your $20 goes back to the terrorists so they can buy bombs and fly planes into things and annoy the Israelis. The government puts out this kind of propaganda, which is amusing. I think this is the only reason they're holding out on legalization - if drug money funds terrorists, then the government would be funding terrorists by proxy by allowing people to buy drugs (from the terrorists.) But the government directly funds terrorists. So this doesn't hold any water, either.

6. Pot was originally banned in this country (and this is true) because government members at the time argued that white women would get stoned and have sex with blacks. Again, true story. It was this arguement that got it banned.

7. Pot was banned for a "second" time because it was argued that it has no medicinal value. This is now proven, for the most part, to be false. However, it does not have enough medical value to a majority or even a relatively large minority of the population to be used as a valid argument for broad legalization. Pot has medical value. The drug Schedule is meant to ban drugs which have none. It's circular logic to say that since pot has some medical value that it should be removed from the schedule all together, though, for the above reason.

8. Pot dealers don't ID people that buy dope, therefore it winds up in the hands of our children. Yeah, but so does anything. Anybody ever pay a hobo to buy you a box of beer when you were underage? People are naive.

9. Can't promote "degeneracy" because this is a moral, upright blah blah society. More crapola put out by the government.

10. Alcohol is protected by the constitution. It was banned, but repealed. The 21st amendment (I think it is) is sort of like the second, but with alcohol instead of guns. Pot isn't. Bringing back prohibition would be unconstitutional - but drugs don't have that kind of protection.

On and on.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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How come they cant tax it?
If it becomes legal wouldnt it be sold in stores and wouldnt there be a sales tax?

It's been illegal for long enough now, that most of the suppliers wouldn't want to hurt their "business", and therefore would have a black market product, much like the cigarettes that people sell dirt cheap that were stolen off the back of the supply truck.
 
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