Pot and Kettle

[Uphill Battle]

I am finding it more and more distressing on being told tht I am white, therefore I must be a racist.

My Girlfriend is Chinese. I didn't set out to fall in love with a Chinese girl, nor did I exclude other races, in hopes of finding a Chinese girl.

One of her friends is adamant though, that I will turn out to be racist. That as a white person, My deep seated prejudices will take over.

With that background, it started me thinking about the whole racial issue in the first place.

Can anyone explain to me why "Black Power" is a rally call, "White Power" is a racial slur. Why BET (Black entertainment TV) or the Indochine network, or the TV Latino are all steps for advancement, but if we had the gall to put out WET (a horrible call sign, no doubt) White Entertainment tv, the human rights people would be at the door in a heartbeat?

How about hiring practices? If I don't hire an asian, or a black person, I'm racist, but it's not uncommon for a minority who owns a business only to hire their "own."

For instance, I work for a mutual fund company, which is owned by the Japanese. There is a "glass ceiling" that I will never get by, because I am white. We white people are condemned for it the other way around.

It doesn't just just stop there... White history month would be jeered. Or, how about the Gay pride parade? What would be said if I walked down the street with thousands of others celebrating my Heterosexuality?

We are condemned if we can't tell a vienamese apart from a Chinese, apart from a Korean person, But I would hazard a guess that the average asian can't look at me and tell if my heritage is Scottish, German, French, Scandinavion etc...

I assume that the above seems a bit bigoted, but far from it. I just wonder why we, as white people are vilified for the crimes of our ancestors so readily? Does everyone forget the atrocities of other "races" perpetrated against minorities within their own countries? History is rife with it.

Are we really as bad as we are made out to be, or is it really a case of the Pot calling the Kettle black?

If you would do me a favor, and if you are responding, perhaps mention your background, as it would be very edifying to get the perspective of more than just other white people.

 

[Maxwell511]

or the TV Latino are all steps for advancement

Aren't Latinos white?

 

[Uphill Battle]

Aren't Latinos white?

Ask them. I'm certain that most would say no.

 

[Maxwell511]

Ask them. I'm certain that most would say no.

Interesting. I'm going to Spain in a month I'll do it then, although European attitudes are alot different then they seem to be in the States. If this results in my ass getting kicked I'm coming after you Uphill.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

I am finding it more and more distressing on being told tht I am white, therefore I must be a racist.

My Girlfriend is Chinese. I didn't set out to fall in love with a Chinese girl, nor did I exclude other races, in hopes of finding a Chinese girl.

One of her friends is adamant though, that I will turn out to be racist. That as a white person, My deep seated prejudices will take over.

With that background, it started me thinking about the whole racial issue in the first place.

Can anyone explain to me why "Black Power" is a rally call, "White Power" is a racial slur. Why BET (Black entertainment TV) or the Indochine network, or the TV Latino are all steps for advancement, but if we had the gall to put out WET (a horrible call sign, no doubt) White Entertainment tv, the human rights people would be at the door in a heartbeat?

Because all the other shows and channels are White Entertainment TV.

How about hiring practices? If I don't hire an asian, or a black person, I'm racist, but it's not uncommon for a minority who owns a business only to hire their "own."

Don't know about laws in other states, but I'm pretty sure that in Texas a family owned business can discriminate about who they hire if they have fewer than 20 (or something) employees. It's why you see all Greeks working in a Greek restaurant or all Vietnamese working in a Vietnamese restaurant.

For instance, I work for a mutual fund company, which is owned by the Japanese. There is a "glass ceiling" that I will never get by, because I am white. We white people are condemned for it the other way around.

Would need more info to see if this really was discrimination.

It doesn't just just stop there... White history month would be jeered. Or, how about the Gay pride parade? What would be said if I walked down the street with thousands of others celebrating my Heterosexuality?

Because March through January are white history months, and all other parades are straight pride parades.

We are condemned if we can't tell a vienamese apart from a Chinese, apart from a Korean person, But I would hazard a guess that the average asian can't look at me and tell if my heritage is Scottish, German, French, Scandinavion etc...

Well, many white people identify as white and so aren't given the chance to get offended. If you want to be offended, then start taking pride in your heritage as a Scotsman.

I assume that the above seems a bit bigoted, but far from it. I just wonder why we, as white people are vilified for the crimes of our ancestors so readily? Does everyone forget the atrocities of other "races" perpetrated against minorities within their own countries? History is rife with it.

This is a complex question.

Are we really as bad as we are made out to be, or is it really a case of the Pot calling the Kettle black?

I would say a little of both.

If you would do me a favor, and if you are responding, perhaps mention your background, as it would be very edifying to get the perspective of more than just other white people.

College student, gay, Texan (whole life), second generation Chinese-American.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

Aren't Latinos white?

IMO they are on their way to becoming included under the term "white," just like Jews, Italians, Irish, and eastern Europeans were once considered others, but are now considered white (in America at least).

 

[Maxwell511]

IMO they are on their way to becoming included under the term "white," just like Jews, Italians, Irish, and eastern Europeans were once considered others, but are now considered white (in America at least).

I'm sorry, aren't Italians Latinos aswell?

This could be just amazing ignorance on my part, american definitions confuse me alot.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

I'm sorry, aren't Italians Latinos aswell?

This could be just amasing ignorance on my part, american definitions confuse me alot.

Uh, when most Americans say "Latino" they're referring to people that speak Spanish... basically anyone from Central or South America, not counting Brazilians and indigenous peoples.

 

[MewtwoX]

The working assumption here is that Minorities are the ones, whose culture is under threat of being assimilated by the Majority culture. Thus, “Pride” rallies are to remind minorities of their roots, so that they don’t forget about them in a nation that isn’t their own. Majority cultures are under no threat of assimilation, thus they do not need “Pride” rallies to remember their culture. Doing so only puts them under suspicion of preaching superiority of their culture over others.

On a related issue, though I contend that claims of “preserving” American or white culture is incoherent on its very nature. In fact, attempts to preserve “American” culture actually destroy American culture. It comes from a misunderstanding of what American culture is in the first palce.

I believe that Americans see rallies such as these and feel isolated at the lack of “Pride” shown for their own culture. However, their conception of “American culture” is in fact rather ambiguous and spurred by the promotion of other cultures. What is truly American culture stands right in front of their faces, as proud as ever and they don’t even realize it.

American culture is, at its heart, the multiculturalism you see in America today. The Governing systems and freedoms of every culture fought for in America make up what it means to be an American. Americans are the providers of the first ever philosophical nation, based on Democracy and the very foreign concept of inalienable rights for all.

Think about the culture of the world when America was formed. Monarchies were abundant and power corrupted. Religions warped to fit the rulers needs, including Christianity. Civil rights were all but a dream to the founding fathers of America. Most likely they were told that their ideals of a Democratic society with Lockian rights was nothing more than armchair philosophy.

They probably faced the same claim many today face: A nation of philosophers is a nation impossible to exist in the real world. People would doubt the ability of men to understand the rights of one another and their democratic system would fail because of this. Nonetheless, they moved on with their idealism, determined to make America and it’s political philosophy a reality.

They succeeded where others failed, and many didn’t even bother to try. This accomplishment is what is at the heart of American culture. They are: One nation built to defend Liberty, Equality and Justice for all for all time. The very fact that people of different cultures can come to America to work hard, become prosperous and still honour their cultures and religion is a testament to the American culture and dream. So long as there are people living in America who can celebrate their cultures and hold “Pride” rallies, you can be sure that the American culture remains as strong as ever.

 

[Maxwell511]

Uh, when most Americans say "Latino" they're referring to people that speak Spanish... basically anyone from Central or South America, not counting Brazilians and indigenous peoples.

Okay. Latino to me would mean Spanish, Portuguese and Italians. The ones that speak the Romance Languages.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

Okay. Latino to me would mean Spanish, Portuguese and Italians. The ones that speak the Romance Languages.

But not French and Romanian?

 

[Maxwell511]

But not French and Romanian?

The French seem to be slightly different culturally to the rest.

Do the Romanians have a Romantic influence?

 

[Arnold_Philips]

The French seem to be slightly different culturally to the rest.

Do the Romanians have a Romantic influence?

 

[Maxwell511]

Didn't know that. You learn something new everyday.

 

[D McCloud]

I am finding it more and more distressing on being told tht I am white, therefore I must be a racist.

My Girlfriend is Chinese. I didn't set out to fall in love with a Chinese girl, nor did I exclude other races, in hopes of finding a Chinese girl.

Although I don't agree with anyone predetermining you as being racist on the sole basis of being white, I also think your explanation as to why you are not a racist is hilarious. It's like claiming that just because you have one black friend or work with a homosexual you can't have racial or homophobic discriminatory tendencies.

One of her friends is adamant though, that I will turn out to be racist. That as a white person, My deep seated prejudices will take over.

Being white has nothing to do with developing prejudices, it's all culturally influenced.

With that background, it started me thinking about the whole racial issue in the first place.

Can anyone explain to me why "Black Power" is a rally call, "White Power" is a racial slur. Why BET (Black entertainment TV) or the Indochine network, or the TV Latino are all steps for advancement, but if we had the gall to put out WET (a horrible call sign, no doubt) White Entertainment tv, the human rights people would be at the door in a heartbeat?

"Black Power" is political slogan that came out of the civil rights movement, and it represented something vastly different from the the slogan "White Power". People who chanted this were striving for equal rights and the betterment of the African American community. Those who chanted "White Power" were often striving for white surpremacy.

How about hiring practices? If I don't hire an asian, or a black person, I'm racist, but it's not uncommon for a minority who owns a business only to hire their "own."

Perhaps you should first look at this issue on a level playing field.

Who own's the majority of big bussiness in the US? Whites. Therefore, whose hiring practices are likely to have more of an influence over the distribution of wealth in the US? Whites. It's important to realize that it takes power to discriminate, and the majority of that power is held by whites. However, I will say that if any bussiness has discriminatory hiring pracitices, I don't agree with it.

For instance, I work for a mutual fund company, which is owned by the Japanese. There is a "glass ceiling" that I will never get by, because I am white. We white people are condemned for it the other way around.

In order for me to comment I think I would need more information about this.

It doesn't just just stop there... White history month would be jeered. Or, how about the Gay pride parade? What would be said if I walked down the street with thousands of others celebrating my Heterosexuality?

When I was in school we learn about white history everyday in the classroom. In fact, I recall very few instances where we talked in depth about the contributions other ethnicities have had in the development of our country. Not only that, but black history month is the shortest month in the year, and it's often treated like it's being given out as a favor to African Americans.

We are condemned if we can't tell a vienamese apart from a Chinese, apart from a Korean person, But I would hazard a guess that the average asian can't look at me and tell if my heritage is Scottish, German, French, Scandinavion etc...

No, whites are condemned when they assume a vietnamese person is Chinese. Once again, try to look at it on a level playing field. How often is difference among the asian communtiy emphasized compared to whites?

I assume that the above seems a bit bigoted, but far from it. I just wonder why we, as white people are vilified for the crimes of our ancestors so readily? Does everyone forget the atrocities of other "races" perpetrated against minorities within their own countries? History is rife with it.

I am unaware of any other countries history that has been more divided by race than the United States history. In fact, It might be relatively easy for most whites to classify what happened in the past as being nothing more than the past. However, for most minorities, it was only 60yrs ago, and is still fresh in the minds of many who lived it. I would also like to mention that there is such a thing as "white privilege" in this country.

Are we really as bad as we are made out to be, or is it really a case of the Pot calling the Kettle black?

If you would do me a favor, and if you are responding, perhaps mention your background, as it would be very edifying to get the perspective of more than just other white people.

I definately don't think all or most whites are bad. However, I do think that most simply are not aware about the things they do and say which could be construed as being racist.

By the way I'm an African American who grew up in a predominately white area in Minnesota.

 

[Caylin]

College student, gay, Texan (whole life), second generation Chinese-American.

Really? What part of texas do you live in? I'm a Texan in Denton.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

Really? What part of texas do you live in? I'm a Texan in Denton.

Austin, the only place that voted against Prop. 2.

 

[Caylin]

Austin, the only place that voted against Prop. 2.

I'm from Austin, and wish I still lived there.

 

[Maxwell511]

No, whites are condemned when they assume a vietnamese person is Chinese. Once again, try to look at it on a level playing field. How often is difference among the asian communtiy emphasized compared to whites?

Why should they be condemned because they assume the person is Chinese?

 

[D McCloud]

Why should they be condemned because they assume the person is Chinese?

For the same reason anyone who assumes you're a Redneck cowboy just because you come from Austin Texas. It's never a good idea to assume anything about a person without gaining more information about them.