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God's word is true, commentary can contradict what God spoke through His prophets.
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God's word is true, commentary can contradict what God spoke through His prophets.We obviously don't know what day it was but I never said that the transgression of God's Sabbath was one of his original transgressions... however, it is completely logical that where he said he was going to exalt his throne above Gods, that he would try and institute a counterfeit day of worship to deify himself.
Imo, justification alone will not sustain the believer... which is what I am understanding from your statement above.
Justification is all God and is free for us to accept and to have change us but going forward we cannot think that it is all God's work that sanctifies us... we are to continually strive for perfection through the conviction, repentance and forgiveness that Grace affords. This is our work in step with the Holy Spirit... as we stray, we are gently made aware of our waywardness but we have to decide to heed the Spirit's calling. If we don't we fall into a state of being lost.
The belief in justification alone is what 'once saved, always saved' people hang onto.
Dude, what did I miss? (Don't answer that - - it was a rhetorical question). All I got from quickly skimming the first couple of pages of the thread was a bunch of Christians being Christian (you know, being loving and forgiving and all that mushy stuff) and that made me all warm and fuzzy. Will read the whole thread when I have time. Just wanted to say that I think God has put you cyber people in my life to teach me good things about being a real Christian (I've not had many good examples in my life) and I really think your honesty and openness is awsome!!
OK. Before I make everyone puke and die from all my sentimental squishiness, I'll say bye for now. Will return soon, though.
Rottiedog
AMENBelieve on Jesus and He will save you is all you need.
Why is this?
Because when Jesus truly saves there is a changed life. All the rest of the stuff comes later through the direction of the holy Spirit. Remember, God will put His Spirit in us first and then He will cause us to walk in His Laws. So we should never say Jesus is not enough but we should say that we have to let Jesus save us.
Dude, what did I miss? (Don't answer that - - it was a rhetorical question). All I got from quickly skimming the first couple of pages of the thread was a bunch of Christians being Christian (you know, being loving and forgiving and all that mushy stuff) and that made me all warm and fuzzy. Will read the whole thread when I have time. Just wanted to say that I think God has put you cyber people in my life to teach me good things about being a real Christian (I've not had many good examples in my life) and I really think your honesty and openness is awsome!!
OK. Before I make everyone puke and die from all my sentimental squishiness, I'll say bye for now. Will return soon, though.
Rottiedog
AMENPraise God!!!! You understand this truth.
Some Greek words means much more than it does in the English language......... "Believe" Blue Letter Bible - Dictionaries
"To believe" in Jesus is to live your life to know Him and trust whatever is said by and about Him through the power of the Holy Spirit. So, as we grow to know Jesus, He will come live in you. You will praise and worship your God because you know Him for yourself. ...And YES,,YOU WILL OBEY HIM.
The disagreement we have is you add "we obey the law" when text are silent.
The bible explain that the law condemns and kills... A major truth to believe is that Jesus died in your place and suffered death for your sins.
The great commission actually sends the Apostles to preach about the name of the Father (Gen-Mal) name of the Son (Matt-John and Rev) and the name of Holy Spirit (Acts-Jude) which is to reveals the Son is God.
Living by faith is" when symbolically wash in the blood of Christ for forgiveness of sins and we eat His flesh by believing His words.(That's the doctrine of faith) Jhn 6:51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Mat 4:4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
The WORD OF GOD is food, and Jesus is THE WORD OF GOD we live by.
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Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
In other words you're saying that if you're saved you should be under the law. That's the problem with commentary, it put's other words into the equation. The Holy bible say that man was created in the image of God after His likeness.What a person is saved it means they have been taken off death row. It does not mean they have a license to sin.
You're mistaken or I need to revisit when I said that.You say the Bible is silent about keeping the Ten Commandments once one has been born again.
What do you mean?Since there's so much offscripture talk about Lucifer in this thread .......
What day did Lucifer transgress God's law?
By the letter he didn't. Scripture says that the sabbath was made for man. However in principle he did. The sabbath is about relationship. God and His creation (man, in our case). There may not have been a "Sabbath day" in heaven, but the communion, the relationship, the harmony that was there, was broken thanks to him.... How could there be a Sabbath before God rested???
In other words you're saying that if you're saved you should be under the law. That's the problem with commentary, it put's other words into the equation. The Holy bible say that man was created in the image of God after His likeness.
Adam had dominion over all what God created. The only sin Adam could have commited was to disobey the 1 commandment that God gave him.
If you believe God's word, you'll have strong knowledge about 2 trees.... Not just the tree of life but also the tree of Good and evil that Adam ate from which caused all evil and death upon the human race. That's what we are to preach.
If a man dont know where he came from he probably dont know where he's going. Crib
When you chain Adam to other laws and commandments you give Him knowlege of evil before His eyes was opened to it. When and wherever the bible says..."In the beginning" we better listen and not add to God's word.
The fact is, even Jesus subjected Himselt to God's word, by saying "it is written".
Jesus lived to fulfill every jot and tittle that was written in the word of God.
The fact is, Jesus articulated from Genesis 1 about a man and woman becoming one flesh. That's why we can add more to Moses account of the creation story.
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I can't help but ask what exactly it is you're trying to explain? Adam's prefall existence actually shows how things should be. God didn't need to break it down for him regarding what to do and not to do when it came to His law. Adam naturally followed God's law. We naturally break it, which is why God had to spell it out for us.
Cribstyl;In other words you're saying that if you're saved you should be under the law. That's the problem with commentary, it put's other words into the equation. The Holy bible say that man was created in the image of God after His likeness.
Adam had dominion over all what God created. The only sin Adam could have commited was to disobey the 1 commandment that God gave him.
If you believe God's word, you'll have strong knowledge about 2 trees.... Not just the tree of life but also the tree of Good and evil that Adam ate from which caused all evil and death upon the human race. That's what we are to preach.
If a man dont know where he came from he probably dont know where he's going. Crib
When you chain Adam to other laws and commandments you give Him knowlege of evil before His eyes was opened to it. When and wherever the bible says..."In the beginning" we better listen and not add to God's word.
The fact is, even Jesus subjected Himselt to God's word, by saying "it is written".
Jesus lived to fulfill every jot and tittle that was written in the word of God.
The fact is, Jesus articulated from Genesis 1 about a man and woman becoming one flesh. That's why we can add more to Moses account of the creation story.
WOW! The lurker has come out. I wonder if he saw his shadow because then there will be six more weeks of winter...
By the way...Amen on your post.
I'll look back and respond.... or did you repost it below?Crib, I was kind of looking forward to your rebuttle to my response to you. Were you going to provide one or are we in agreeance as to what I said?
Well, since there is commentary about Lucifer and the ten commandments before Adam..... I'm curious to hear which of the seven literal days of creation ( before or after) that Satan did his dirt in heaven. From all the chatter I hear about His jealousy of Jesus and His plans for mankind, it's easy to think that Moses left out most of what really happened in the beginnning. I am aware of Isa prophesies and other quotes from scriptures about Lucifer.What do you mean?
Do tell.....By the letter he didn't. Scripture says that the sabbath was made for man.
However in principle he did. The sabbath is about relationship. God and His creation (man, in our case). There may not have been a "Sabbath day" in heaven, but the communion, the relationship, the harmony that was there, was broken thanks to him.
In my feeble understanding, when Jesus said that "Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath," The understanding I get is; "first came the man, then the Sabbath was made for the man to have a day of rest......Keyword..REST...end quote."
He did not imply at creation but rather, when Sabbath was first given for man's benefit to rest from His labor.
The bible tells us about 1 commandment that Adam transgressed that caused all possible evil from a state of perfection.Adam's prefall existence actually shows how things should be.
God didn't need to break it down for him regarding what to do and not to do when it came to His law.
Adam naturally followed God's law. We naturally break it, which is why God had to spell it out for us.
The bible doesn't speak much regarding the fall of Lucifer, all we know from scripture is that he goofed, so yeah. With that being said I wouldn't have a clue as to what "day" he sinned on, and I don't know why that would matter.Well, since there is commentary about Lucifer and the ten commandments before Adam..... I'm curious to hear which of the seven literal days of creation ( before or after) that Satan did his dirt in heaven. From all the chatter I hear about His jealousy of Jesus and His plans for mankind, it's easy to think that Moses left out most of what really happened in the beginnning. I am aware of Isa prophesies and other quotes from scriptures about Lucifer.
I'm pretty sure I said that Lucifer didn't break "the sabbath" as in the literal 7th day of the week, but that he broke the "sabbath" in spirit because he disrupted the "rest" that was in heaven. And your understanding of resting differs from mine. God told Adam to rest becuase He rested. Now does God get tired? I think not, and I doubt Adam was getting all winded and stressed out days 1-6. God told Adam to take a break so they could have some quality time together.Do tell.....
In my feeble understanding, when Jesus said that "Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath," The understanding I get is; "first came the man, then the Sabbath was made for the man to have a day of rest......Keyword..REST...end quote."
He did not imply at creation but rather, when Sabbath was first given for man's benefit to rest from His labor.
Honestly Crib, you calling my responses "commentary" as if yours aren't is one of the main reasons I stopped talking with you. It's almost insulting.When you just say only "Sabbath was made for man" and add commentary about a creation instituted sabbath, I dont easily buy into that because God said by the mouth several prophets and many Psalms about when and why the Sabbath was given.
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.
Neh 9:14And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
God gave it as a sign for his people after sin because well ya know, sin kind of came in and seperated God's people from Him. It didn't need to be a sign before sin because there wasn't a breakdown in relationship with God and man. However after sin, with all these ungrateful beings running around and serving god's of whatever, The Lord God gave decided to make the sabbath His sign, His seal, for His people. It was meant to distinguish them from the heathen practices running amok.Why would God give Sabbath as a sign for 1 people if He had instituted it at creation for all humanity? Does God need to change His mind?
Everything that is written about God's seven days of creation is clear and unquestionably still visible to all.
In my opinion the primary reason that man would even need rest is primarily because of Adam sin and this curse;
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
Cribstyl;The bible tells us about 1 commandment that Adam transgressed that caused all possible evil from a state of perfection.
We can agree that there are moral laws that are intrinsic in man, but we read and understand that the first family on earth commiting murder to his brother he should love. This teaches us that the tree of the knowledge of evil caused a vast and brutal seperation between God and man that noone but God can repair.
If the law prexisted Adam, then someone need to explain how angels have mother and father, how they grow old and die, How they marry, commit adultry, own land and property.
If you have trouble explaining how the ten commandments could possibly applied to spiritual being in heaven, could it be possible that the ten commandment was made for people who lived on a planet called earth and rotated arround the Sun?
I rather apply scriptures to understanding until the Holy Spirit makes me accept commentary.The rest that God speaks of is a ceasing from labor as a means to acknowldge the holiness of the day. God rested, does He need to rest?
The ceasing is not what makes the day holy, the day is holy so we cease.
We do the same with holidays (holy days) today. On the Fourth of July everyone gets the day off in honor of the day because of what the day represents, which is the sacrifice people made for independance.
We cease on the seventh day in light of what the day represents. The seventh day was blessed and set apart at creation to represent a creation and its Creator. It acts as a light that passes through time and and generations. It bears witness of a creation and its Creator. The world would be hard pressed to believe and teach evolution if the whole kept the Sabbath holy.
The Sabbath also separates a people for God. When we keep the Sabbath holy we testify to the world around us of a creation and the fact that we worship the One who created it. This is very important especially in these last days when God has been taken out of everything, even church.
This in no way means there weren't other laws in existenceThe bible tells us about 1 commandment that Adam transgressed that caused all possible evil from a state of perfection.
Sorry but we are going to disagree here, in part. Man is born in sin and shaped. From birth we are evil beings. There is nothing intrinsic about morality when it comes to us. Having a knowledge of that which is moral is nothing more then the Spirit working in our lives. And it's more about sin then it is the tree. Eating the fruit didn't bring knowledge as in at that moment they were fully aware of all that was evil, rather when they disobeyed God, sin covered this planet and brough consequences that we'll probably never understand till we get to heaven.We can agree that there are moral laws that are intrinsic in man, but we read and understand that the first family on earth commiting murder to his brother he should love. This teaches us that the tree of the knowledge of evil caused a vast and brutal seperation between God and man that noone but God can repair.
Again, you're looking at the letter. I'd not say that most of the laws were crafted for the Isrealites to teach them how to live right. But the ten commandments, in principle are eternal. That's why God said "Love God" & "Love Thy Neighbor". All the commandments are wrapped up in those two commandments.If the law prexisted Adam, then someone need to explain how angels have mother and father, how they grow old and die, How they marry, commit adultry, own land and property.
I have no problem at all understanding how they would apply to heavenly beings. But that's me, I can't force you to see it my way so this is a moot point. Again, you have to look at the spirit of the law. Love for God and Love for your brothers. The angels who rebelled lost their love for God and their love for their fellow angels. It's actually quite simple.If you have trouble explaining how the ten commandments could possibly applied to spiritual being in heaven, could it be possible that the ten commandment was made for people who lived on a planet called earth and rotated arround the Sun?
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