Post or Pre tribulation rapture..

[WithLoveFromAlyssa]

What one do you believe in and why?

 

[tremble]

Post tribulation. It's more consistent with what I see in the Bible than pre.

 

[Omena]

I believe in Post Trib rapture. The way I see it, the Great Tribulation is a great way for God to test our faith.

 

[dragongunner]

Post

If you do a word search on this topic you should find a wealth of info, we had this as a topic not long ago here. God Bless

 

[tremble]

I've visited forums before where there were several threads on the same forum devoted to this topic.

Still, most people probably won't bother to go back to the start of an old thread and read though all the old posts and from time to time it's probably good to go through the issues again in the event that someone comes along who hasn't yet seen it, or just to help us sharpen our own understanding of the issues.

 

[JGiddings]

No rapture, second coming only. I don't take Revelation literally. The verse in the Epistle to Timothy is to give hope to the churches. I believe it was describing the Second coming.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I don't take Revelation literally.

 

[JGiddings]

I should be more specific. I don't take ALL of Rev literally.
Oh, the head slap is uncalled for.
I'm amillenial.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I should be more specific. I don't take ALL of Rev literally.

That's much better.

I would love to say I cant wait until Jesus returns. I'm looking forward to seeing him however I fear for many of the people whom I love. I really fear for them in the coming tribulation. If you look at how bad they will have turned by Rev. 19 when he returns, how corrupted the unsaved will become under the Anti-Christ. It is sad.

I am looking forward to Satan and the demons being chucked into hell though. Jesus already beat the devil with an ugly stick (The Cross) and next time he will crush his head.

 

[JGiddings]

That's much better.

I would love to say I cant wait until Jesus returns. I'm looking forward to seeing him however I fear for many of the people whom I love. I really fear for them in the coming tribulation. If you look at how bad they will have turned by Rev. 19 when he returns, how corrupted the unsaved will become under the Anti-Christ. It is sad.

I am looking forward to Satan and the demons being chucked into hell though. Jesus already beat the devil with an ugly stick (The Cross) and next time he will crush his head.

Now we are on the same page.
I fear this as well.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Now we are on the same page.

Really. Your Bible has Revelation 19 on page 1150? What a coincidence.

 

[tremble]

Is there a difference between the "rapture" and the 2nd coming of Jesus or is it that they could be the same, or different depending on point of view?

 

[miamited]

Hi AJ,

I also agree with post tribulation. My understanding is that the people of the world and the Antichrist are the designers of the tribulation. The word of God only says that his children will not suffer His wrath. The wrath of God seems to follow the tribulation of men as I understand the chronology. Jesus comes to take his from the earth just prior to the release of God's wrath. The great tribulation and the time of God's wrath are not the same event.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[food4thought]

I am pretribulational. The Bible teaches us to expect the return of Christ for the church at any time, yet there appears to be quite a few things that must happen before the 2nd coming.

Just because the church won't go through the Great Tribulation does not mean the church will not endure suffering and persecution. America is a great place to be a Christian right now, but it could change soon... my pre-trib brothers and sisters need to be prepared to suffer for the cause of Christ, because He may indeed call us to that.

 

[abysmul]

I'm amillennial. When I pray about and read what Christ said about his return, my understanding is that he is coming back only one time... I don't get fragmented events like a second and third coming, or a half coming then a second coming.

 

[tremble]

I also agree with post tribulation. My understanding is that the people of the world and the Antichrist are the designers of the tribulation. The word of God only says that his children will not suffer His wrath. The wrath of God seems to follow the tribulation of men as I understand the chronology. Jesus comes to take his from the earth just prior to the release of God's wrath. The great tribulation and the time of God's wrath are not the same event.

Agreed, separated by trumpets and bowls. There is a difference between tribulation (which God allows all of his children to experience) and wrath (which seems to be directed specifically at his enemies).

 

[miamited]

Hi abysmul,

I believe that there are two. Christ will return to gather those who are his, prior to the release of God's wrath. After God has destroyed all of His enemies, Christ will return again for his millennial reign with those who are his. Then satan will be released upon the earth one final time. My partial understanding of this is that the born again believer will get a final test during the millennial reign to be given a real taste of what the eternal life with God will be like and satan will, after that trial, be released to tempt away those who may be hesitant or not interested in what they thought eternal life with God will be like. Then comes the absolute and irrevocable final judgment of God.

This understanding can, of course, be argued.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[abysmul]

This understanding can, of course, be argued.

Indeed it can.

I also happen to believe that our salvation does not depend on our understanding of the order and specific "end time" events. God is in control, Christ will return, all will be judged.

 

[thesunisout]

What one do you believe in and why?

Post, here are some scriptures that convince me:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

This disproves the secret rapture, because His coming is announced by a Trumpet and we see from the order of events that the dead are raised and then those who are alive will go up.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This scripture confirms that the day of the Lord (when we are gathered to him) will not come before the great apostasy and the revealing of the Antichrist. This puts the "rapture" after the middle of the tribulation, which is when the abomination of desolation occurs (which is described in verse 4)

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Proves the elect will be in the tribulation

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Puts the "rapture" at the end of the tribulation (pay attention to the trumpet)

Nevertheless, we should not have some kind of misguided faith in our ability to persevere because this is what the Lord instructed His disciples to do regarding the tribulation:

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Escape doesn't mean, raptured out. It means protected, like Israel will be protected:

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

 

[JGiddings]

We must take into account that there is the Historicist, Futurist, Preterist, and Idealist schools of thought about this subject. IMHO, in order to interpret Revelation correctly (how it was meant to be interpreted) you must have a mix of Futurist, Idealist, and a little bit of Preterist interpretation.