Possible Sticky: What is the Restoration Movement?

[constance]

Hi WATW - what you're looking for is probably the Hutterites. But I think they're mainly in the extreme north of this country and in Canada.

You may look for a social commune that is also Christian (a la Keith Green's commune) - I know they exist but don't know of any in the SW.

Constance

 

[woman.at.the.well]

Happy to be of any assistance! Its hard in this day and age to find a group of believers who DO go above and beyond the "call of duty" when it comes to God's family. There are too many people who just put in their 2 hrs a week, and that's it! (I like to call these folks, "Sunday Morning Sitters".) In any event, there are plenty of congregations out there that are similar to what you are looking for (in the RM), but not necessarily EXACTLY what you are looking for. It's good to feel good about where you are going, and have a nice fellowship..But, with that said, to me at least, a place where the bible is taught and the bible only is the most important thing. I think in MOST RM churches you will find that. (At least I hope so.)

Be blessed!

I love that, can I borrow it? "Sunday Morning Sitters." That's classic! If I could get something close to what I am looking for I would be VERY happy! As I said in a prior post - I know no one single religion will have EXACTLY everything I look for or anyone for that matter. I also struggle with not wanting to be a church hopper/shopper. But I believe people go through different stages in their faith and when that happens sometimes we need to change to accomodate where we are at spiritually. And that time has come for me.

I agree whole heartedly that the bible must be the only form of - quote unquote - doctrine that should be used. Not only that but that it should be taken literally and not manipulated. That is why non-believers/non-christians struggle with what we believe because it is so different everywhere you go.

If all Christian religions would just stick to what is written in the Word I really think that alot of what we argue over would disappear. But then again, they'd argue over what the bible actually says even though I feel it's very clear just the way it is written. With the help of a concordance, or bible word dictionary, etc.

I really get uptight when certain religions twist things and say things like, "well in the context that it was written," which unless you are a bible scholar you wouldn't know what the context was.

For example: women pastors, etc. It seems pretty clear to me that women are not supposed to lead in church services according to what Paul wrote in (NIV) 2 Corinthians 14:33:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

I don't mean to strike up a debate here but I am wondering how RM churches preach things from the Word and using that as an example. I am a woman and that above passage doesn't tick me off. I wish others wouldn't get so offended by it either. I don't see it as an insult. Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?

I guess I struggle with the fine lines and teachings that I feel are false out there especially with this subject. I've had pastors say that you have to keep it into context and remember what was going on at the time. I understand all that, etc. But how is someone just thumbing through the bible supposed to know that? I don't think God's inspired word was supposed to be interpreted any other way than literally. Do you guys? Or am I being way too legalistic? Be truthful. I can take it!

Thank you again Frame1520! I really appreciate your willingness to help and answer my questions. Bless you brother!

Hi WATW - what you're looking for is probably the Hutterites. But I think they're mainly in the extreme north of this country and in Canada.

You may look for a social commune that is also Christian (a la Keith Green's commune) - I know they exist but don't know of any in the SW.

Constance

Thank you so much for this info Constance. How are you doing? It's nice to see you again! Long time no see!

 

[HeyHomie]

I don't mean to strike up a debate here but I am wondering how RM churches preach things from the Word and using that as an example. I am a woman and that above passage doesn't tick me off. I wish others wouldn't get so offended by it either. I don't see it as an insult. Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?

Well we're pretty literal. There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.

It is necessary to understand what the Bible says in context. For example, there's a Psalm that says something about wanting to take babies and bash their heads against rocks. If you didn't know the context, you'd think that God wants His people to commit infanticide .

 

[PastorMikeJ]

Amen!!!!

It is time to take God out of our boxes!! And accept that He is God!

 

[woman.at.the.well]

Well we're pretty literal. There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.

It is necessary to understand what the Bible says in context. For example, there's a Psalm that says something about wanting to take babies and bash their heads against rocks. If you didn't know the context, you'd think that God wants His people to commit infanticide .

I figured since REM "doctrine" is the bible and the bible only that they take what it says pretty literal. I think you misunderstood the context statement I made. You do have to take things like culture etc into consideration when trying to understanding the scriptures.

However . . . when people go around saying you have to take into context what was happening at the time that Paul wrote the letter to the Corinthians regarding women speaking in church - that women were just blurting things out in that church at the time - how is a non Christian reading through the Word supposed to know that? You get what I mean? It crosses a line if you get my drift.

Could you please post that verse in Psalms (re: bashing babies heads against a rock) so I can see that for myself. I'm on my 5th time through the bible in the last 4 yrs and do not ever recall reading a verse like that. You also have to read the whole chapter too, not just a verse. That is how I see things "in context." Is that what you mean too?

Thank you homie!

 

[HeyHomie]

Psalm 137

1Alongside Babylon's rivers we sat on the banks; we cried and cried,
remembering the good old days in Zion.
2Alongside the quaking aspens
we stacked our unplayed harps;
3That's where our captors demanded songs,
sarcastic and mocking:
"Sing us a happy Zion song!"

4Oh, how could we ever sing GOD's song
in this wasteland?
5If I ever forget you, Jerusalem,
let my fingers wither and fall off like leaves.
6Let my tongue swell and turn black
if I fail to remember you,
If I fail, O dear Jerusalem,
to honor you as my greatest.

7GOD, remember those Edomites,
and remember the ruin of Jerusalem,
That day they yelled out,
"Wreck it, smash it to bits!"
8And you, Babylonians--ravagers!
A reward to whoever gets back at you
for all you've done to us;
9Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!

 

[VonKarman]

As pertains to the original post:

Very interesting. Sounds a lot like a "non-denominational" Christian viewpoint.

 

[Frame1520]

I love that, can I borrow it? "Sunday Morning Sitters." That's classic!

Sure, just remember to tell people I told you.

If I could get something close to what I am looking for I would be VERY happy! As I said in a prior post - I know no one single religion will have EXACTLY everything I look for or anyone for that matter. I also struggle with not wanting to be a church hopper/shopper. But I believe people go through different stages in their faith and when that happens sometimes we need to change to accomodate where we are at spiritually. And that time has come for me.

Based on what I've read from you, a RM church kind of sounds up your alley. I'd look at "Christian churches" and "churches of Christ." Maybe, a suggested before, make a phone call to the minister to see where they stand on things (instrumental or non).

I really get uptight when certain religions twist things and say things like, "well in the context that it was written," which unless you are a bible scholar you wouldn't know what the context was.

Too many folks key in on one verse, and base everything they believe in on that. They'll take one vese like Romans 10:9, or even Acts 2:38 and use it as their only view. (Granted, Acts 2:38 is pretty powerful and clear!) It's a shame that they don't teach the verse, or chapter in context, and who the epistle was written to, etc.

Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?

I think so. At least, most that I've known.

I guess I struggle with the fine lines and teachings that I feel are false out there especially with this subject. I've had pastors say that you have to keep it into context and remember what was going on at the time. I understand all that, etc. But how is someone just thumbing through the bible supposed to know that? I don't think God's inspired word was supposed to be interpreted any other way than literally. Do you guys? Or am I being way too legalistic? Be truthful. I can take it!

As to the women issue you brought up, I agree with you. The bible is pretty clear on the issue, and I think we should take it literally. It also comes back to compromising God's word. When churches decide they are going to allow women ministers, or even leadership (elders, deacons, etc.), then they are compromising God's word. When you do that, you set a precident. Next thing you know, your compromising on other teachings from the bible. "Oh, well, we don't need to take the Lord's supper every week...We don't need to baptize people...Lets just have a feel good message...People don't want to hear about hell!" I joke, but a lot of churches have already gone down this road. More sad than funny.

Glad I could ramble on in response to your post!

 

[woman.at.the.well]

Sure, just remember to tell people I told you.

you betcha i will!

Based on what I've read from you, a RM church kind of sounds up your alley. I'd look at "Christian churches" and "churches of Christ." Maybe, a suggested before, make a phone call to the minister to see where they stand on things (instrumental or non).

Too many folks key in on one verse, and base everything they believe in on that. They'll take one vese like Romans 10:9, or even Acts 2:38 and use it as their only view. (Granted, Acts 2:38 is pretty powerful and clear!) It's a shame that they don't teach the verse, or chapter in context, and who the epistle was written to, etc.


I think so. At least, most that I've known.

Yeah Frame, you are correct there. I totally agree with you. I studied with a group of people that did that and when I questioned them on it they never came back.

As to the women issue you brought up, I agree with you. The bible is pretty clear on the issue, and I think we should take it literally. It also comes back to compromising God's word. When churches decide they are going to allow women ministers, or even leadership (elders, deacons, etc.), then they are compromising God's word. When you do that, you set a precident. Next thing you know, your compromising on other teachings from the bible. "Oh, well, we don't need to take the Lord's supper every week...We don't need to baptize people...Lets just have a feel good message...People don't want to hear about hell!" I joke, but a lot of churches have already gone down this road. More sad than funny.

Glad I could ramble on in response to your post!

You got that right Frame. The bible is VERY clear and I don't like it when the line is crossed not only on the issue of women preachers but in anyway. I can totally understand why non-believers would get upset about that. That is why we have so many different beliefs because people manipulate the scriptures and that really ticks me off. The bible should not be comprimised as you said!

It's funny you mentioned no teachings on hell. I have only heard one sermon on that from our church and it wasn't even the Sr. Pastor who gave it. It was an elder who did an excellent job preaching about the Bema Seat! I was rather surprised to see that alot of folks got offended by the sermon. I'm like, "huh??? are you crazy? isn't that what we are trying to avoid (hell)???"

I believe we should do the Lord's Supper every week as well. And we don't at my church (a fellowship). I also recently found out there is some formalities to being baptized as well which I highly disagree with. Jesus said, "go out into the nations, preach the gospel and baptize those that believe." I see no formalities there, do you? Believe, repent, and be baptized. Done deal! What'sup with the classes, etc???

I know it's hard to understand but I believe those feel good churches are out there for a reason. As I said before, I believe we go through different stages in our faith -- and perhaps the feel good churches draw them in (to a degree). Then when need be they move onto something more then skin deep. Does that make sense?

Thank you so much for letting ME ramble on (not you Frame ) and pretty much high jack the thread. I really didn't mean to. But I have learned so much from you and heyhomie about RMs! I really appreciate your time and patience!

Bless you both for your Christ-like character and example.

 

[Frame1520]

I totally agree with you. I studied with a group of people that did that and when I questioned them on it they never came back.

Some people don't like to be called out...Others have too much pride...Still others, aren't willing to accept the truth. I can't understand how someone can say the bible is God's word and our final authority, then leave things out, or manipulate things to meet thier needs. Odd, and I'll never understand.

You got that right Frame. The bible is VERY clear and I don't like it when the line is crossed not only on the issue of women preachers but in anyway. I can totally understand why non-believers would get upset about that. That is why we have so many different beliefs because people manipulate the scriptures and that really ticks me off. The bible should not be comprimised as you said!

I think far too many people realize that this manipulation is from satan himself. Sometimes we have to take a step back and say, "who is really working here?" What better way to steer people from Christ than to manipulate the scriptures, and cause people to doubt based on so many different, quote "interpretations?"

It's funny you mentioned no teachings on hell. I have only heard one sermon on that from our church and it wasn't even the Sr. Pastor who gave it. It was an elder who did an excellent job preaching about the Bema Seat! I was rather surprised to see that alot of folks got offended by the sermon. I'm like, "huh??? are you crazy? isn't that what we are trying to avoid (hell)???"

Yeah. Difficult to make people understand salvation if they don't understand the alternative. Again, people don't like to hear things that make them uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but every once in a while, being reminded of hell as an alternative certainly can keep one humble and aware.

I believe we should do the Lord's Supper every week as well. And we don't at my church (a fellowship). I also recently found out there is some formalities to being baptized as well which I highly disagree with. Jesus said, "go out into the nations, preach the gospel and baptize those that believe." I see no formalities there, do you? Believe, repent, and be baptized. Done deal! What'sup with the classes, etc???

What was the class? That they had to meet certain requirements before they were baptized? I'd be interested to hear more. (for the sake of conversation.)

I know it's hard to understand but I believe those feel good churches are out there for a reason. As I said before, I believe we go through different stages in our faith -- and perhaps the feel good churches draw them in (to a degree). Then when need be they move onto something more then skin deep. Does that make sense?

Probably right. Each person is in different stages of their Christian walk, all needing a different type of spirtual growth. Obviously, the end goal should be sound in ones biblical knowledge, tothe point where the student becomes the teacher, thus repeating the whole process of what the great commission is all about.

Thank you so much for letting ME ramble on (not you Frame ) and pretty much high jack the thread. I really didn't mean to. But I have learned so much from you and heyhomie about RMs! I really appreciate your time and patience!

Bless you both for your Christ-like character and example.

No problem. Good to fellowship and share like thoughts!

 

[woman.at.the.well]

Some people don't like to be called out...Others have too much pride...Still others, aren't willing to accept the truth. I can't understand how someone can say the bible is God's word and our final authority, then leave things out, or manipulate things to meet thier needs. Odd, and I'll never understand.

no they don't like to be called out. . .you got that right Frame1520! I WANT to know the truth and don't care if it makes me uncomfortable because I know God has our best interests in mind when He inspires the writer's of His word to pen something.

I think far too many people realize that this manipulation is from satan himself. Sometimes we have to take a step back and say, "who is really working here?" What better way to steer people from Christ than to manipulate the scriptures, and cause people to doubt based on so many different, quote "interpretations?"

Yeah. Difficult to make people understand salvation if they don't understand the alternative. Again, people don't like to hear things that make them uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but every once in a while, being reminded of hell as an alternative certainly can keep one humble and aware.

Again I agree with you Frame . . .I am human and need a good swift kick/reminder sometimes as to where I could be headed if no one holds me accountable. That is severly lacking in churches as well. I don't like pastors or other believers in a congregation turning a blind eye when someone is sinning continually and no one says anything cause it might hurt their feelings. If I'm doing something wrong I want someone to tell me![/quote]

What was the class? That they had to meet certain requirements before they were baptized? I'd be interested to hear more. (for the sake of conversation.)

Ya know Frame . . .I have no idea what the class is. I never attended it. I had already been baptized in a CoC years ago when I came to this church but I'd be interested to know myself what is said or asked during this time. A friend of mine wanted him , his daughter, and granddaughter (3 generations) to be baptized by my pastor and he is requiring him to do this so I will ask him if he goes what the pastor went over and let you know if I am privy to that ok?

Probably right. Each person is in different stages of their Christian walk, all needing a different type of spirtual growth. Obviously, the end goal should be sound in ones biblical knowledge, tothe point where the student becomes the teacher, thus repeating the whole process of what the great commission is all about.

brother!

No problem. Good to fellowship and share like thoughts!

Well good then! I am enjoying this too!

 

[woman.at.the.well]

Psalm 137

1Alongside Babylon's rivers we sat on the banks; we cried and cried,
remembering the good old days in Zion.
2Alongside the quaking aspens
we stacked our unplayed harps;
3That's where our captors demanded songs,
sarcastic and mocking:
"Sing us a happy Zion song!"

4Oh, how could we ever sing GOD's song
in this wasteland?
5If I ever forget you, Jerusalem,
let my fingers wither and fall off like leaves.
6Let my tongue swell and turn black
if I fail to remember you,
If I fail, O dear Jerusalem,
to honor you as my greatest.

7GOD, remember those Edomites,
and remember the ruin of Jerusalem,
That day they yelled out,
"Wreck it, smash it to bits!"
8And you, Babylonians--ravagers!
A reward to whoever gets back at you
for all you've done to us;
9Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!

Sorry homie. I didn't even catch this before I responded to Frame today. Please forgive my oversight.

Ah! I see what you are talking about now. And exactly what you meant by in context! Thank you for posting that for me.

As pertains to the original post:

Very interesting. Sounds a lot like a "non-denominational" Christian viewpoint.

Which suits this non-denom girl just dandy!

Thank you so much for your help homie!

 

[Frame1520]

Ya know Frame . . .I have no idea what the class is. I never attended it. I had already been baptized in a CoC years ago when I came to this church but I'd be interested to know myself what is said or asked during this time. A friend of mine wanted him , his daughter, and granddaughter (3 generations) to be baptized by my pastor and he is requiring him to do this so I will ask him if he goes what the pastor went over and let you know if I am privy to that ok?

Kind of frightening to think what it could be used for. Probably has good intentions (I say probably because I don't know). I can't see making someone who wants to obey Christ's command and become a Christian thru baptism take a class beforehand? Seems to me if someone is willing they probably understand it enough to know what it's for. It's good to reinforce the purpose of such things, but I don't think it should be REQUIRED to take a class to "be taught" what it is about first. What if someone comes forward to become a Christian and is refused, only to die before they "learn what they need to learn" in such a class? I don't know. God would ultimately be their judge, but I just can't see turning anyone away, EVER. That's my two sense on it.

I've been part of some crazy stuff in churches, and that's new to me. Believe me, just when you think things are going ok, satan strolls in and starts setting things on fire! Too many folks don't realize that we are in such a spiritual battle. I don't say that lightly. I know I have experienced it, and am sure others on here have as well. (Sorry somewhat off topic, but a random thought.)

 

[woman.at.the.well]

Kind of frightening to think what it could be used for. Probably has good intentions (I say probably because I don't know). I can't see making someone who wants to obey Christ's command and become a Christian thru baptism take a class beforehand? Seems to me if someone is willing they probably understand it enough to know what it's for. It's good to reinforce the purpose of such things, but I don't think it should be REQUIRED to take a class to "be taught" what it is about first. What if someone comes forward to become a Christian and is refused, only to die before they "learn what they need to learn" in such a class? I don't know. God would ultimately be their judge, but I just can't see turning anyone away, EVER. That's my two sense on it.

I've been part of some crazy stuff in churches, and that's new to me. Believe me, just when you think things are going ok, satan strolls in and starts setting things on fire! Too many folks don't realize that we are in such a spiritual battle. I don't say that lightly. I know I have experienced it, and am sure others on here have as well. (Sorry somewhat off topic, but a random thought.)

in this church I attend -- is just the icing on the cake of several reasons why I am looking around for another church home. Hence so many questions to you guys on the RM forum.

I almost emailed my pastor back when he said he wouldn't baptize them without talking to them/them attending a baptismal class and said, "WHAT????????? Where is THAT written in the word?" I shouldn't be surprised though because of where he got his doctrate of divinity from. I won't say because I truly don't want to offend anyone but it does explain some differences in what I believe and what he practices/preaches about.

I too hope the "class" has good intentions even though I don't agree with it. If someone believes Jesus lived, died on the cross, and was resurrected from the dead - then what else does one have left to do? Get baptized of course! I don't get it.

You are sooooooo right on about satan strolling in and the spiritual battle We are in, It is scarey sometimes. Especially if people don't realize the power they have as believers in Christ.

Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!

 

[Tranceformer110]

Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!

I am somewhat of an outsider to the RM, but here is what I know(anyone else can fill in where I am wrong or just don't know). When I enrolled at Ozark Christian College(an RM school) alot of my pentecostal friends pointed out that they were cessasionists and that I might be made fun of for my beliefs. What I found out was that many of the proffessors and students are not that way. Do they practice the gifts? Not to my knowledge, but they at least allow it. I've been to several RM churches to and usually it's a topic that is never brought up. So I don't really know the most common view in the restoration movement.

 

[constance]

There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.

Disciples of Christ has and encourages women in the ministry. I am constantly saying "no, thank you" to people who tell me I should pursue ordination. Then they say "Well, that's okay, when would you like to preach?" (and then I have a cute little temper tantrum)...

It's apparently funny to be the conservative one in a liberal denomination.

To be fair, I'm in Chicago, and the DoCs in the cornfields are more like the CoCs elsewhere.

Constance

 

[Frame1520]

in this church I attend -- is just the icing on the cake of several reasons why I am looking around for another church home. Hence so many questions to you guys on the RM forum.

I almost emailed my pastor back when he said he wouldn't baptize them without talking to them/them attending a baptismal class and said, "WHAT????????? Where is THAT written in the word?" I shouldn't be surprised though because of where he got his doctrate of divinity from. I won't say because I truly don't want to offend anyone but it does explain some differences in what I believe and what he practices/preaches about.

I too hope the "class" has good intentions even though I don't agree with it. If someone believes Jesus lived, died on the cross, and was resurrected from the dead - then what else does one have left to do? Get baptized of course! I don't get it.

You are sooooooo right on about satan strolling in and the spiritual battle We are in, It is scarey sometimes. Especially if people don't realize the power they have as believers in Christ.

Yeah it doesn't make much sense...I would GUESS that the class is a way of (and I hate to use this word), make the people believe what the denomination believes. I am firmly against turning people away who want to be baptized, waiting for a class!

As for the spiritual battle..Its there. People don't like to acknowledge it, because then that would mean they had to loose control. What I mean by that is, it would require them to put all their faith in God. A lot of people, including myself at times, are unwilling to "give it up" to God. The spiritual battle is God's battle, and no man can stop it. But man can, IF they put all their faith in God thru prayer, fasting, etc. God is much bigger than people give Him credit for (which to me makes about zero sense!)

I'll try and answer your other question about gifts of the spirit in another reply, it might get lengthy!

 

[Frame1520]

Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!

I looked up some stuff online, but it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical! So I'll try and answer this the best that I can, interjecting some opinion here and there, so keep that in mind.

Prophesying: There is prophesying all thru the bible. Even in the new testament. The question is whether it can still occur today. I would say that the reasons for prophesying are for 1) to complete the scriptures and 2) give creedence to what the apostles were teaching. I would say that today it is unlikely that people could forsee the future or prophesy, simply because the scriptures were completed when John finished the book of revelation. Can God use people to prophesy? Absolutely. God can do anything He wants, but based on scriptures (and I could dig some up if you want), you would have to stretch far to find reasoning behind prophesy now. So, in that, I think that considering the completeness of the scriptures, prophesy is no longer necessary. God has told us all we need to know, for now.

Healing, miraculous signs, tongues, etc: You won't hear of the "gifts of the spirit" exhibited in a RM church. Does that mean that someone couldn't speak in tongues? No. Again, God is in charge and can do what He wants. I however believe that speaking in tongues is exactly what the bible says. The bible tells us that the tongues in question were different languages. If someone were to speak in tongues today, they would need an interpretor to interpret what they were saying. So, yes people can speak in tongues, just not "blabbidy bloppity blah blop". I don't think that is scriptural. Healing; can people be miraculously healed? God can heal. There are also other examples of gifts of the spirit, examples would be teaching, preaching, serving, giving, leading, and showing mercy. So in those, yes, we see those all the time. They are just not the outwardly noticable gifts. When you say gifts, obviously, most people think immediately of tongues, healing, etc. But there are other gifts, and yes I believe they are very important, and integral to God's church.

That's about the best I can do without looking up a ton of scriptures and taking up this entire forum with a post. You might go to this website: http://www.thecra.org/restherald.htm
They have a lot of useful stuff, from biblical scholars who are far more experienced and well versed than I am. It's a publication written by ministers, professors, and ton's of people from the RM. Hope this helps SOME!

 

[woman.at.the.well]

I looked up some stuff online, but it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical! So I'll try and answer this the best that I can, interjecting some opinion here and there, so keep that in mind.

Prophesying: There is prophesying all thru the bible. Even in the new testament. The question is whether it can still occur today. I would say that the reasons for prophesying are for 1) to complete the scriptures and 2) give creedence to what the apostles were teaching. I would say that today it is unlikely that people could forsee the future or prophesy, simply because the scriptures were completed when John finished the book of revelation. Can God use people to prophesy? Absolutely. God can do anything He wants, but based on scriptures (and I could dig some up if you want), you would have to stretch far to find reasoning behind prophesy now. So, in that, I think that considering the completeness of the scriptures, prophesy is no longer necessary. God has told us all we need to know, for now.

Healing, miraculous signs, tongues, etc: You won't hear of the "gifts of the spirit" exhibited in a RM church. Does that mean that someone couldn't speak in tongues? No. Again, God is in charge and can do what He wants. I however believe that speaking in tongues is exactly what the bible says. The bible tells us that the tongues in question were different languages. If someone were to speak in tongues today, they would need an interpretor to interpret what they were saying. So, yes people can speak in tongues, just not "blabbidy bloppity blah blop". I don't think that is scriptural. Healing; can people be miraculously healed? God can heal. There are also other examples of gifts of the spirit, examples would be teaching, preaching, serving, giving, leading, and showing mercy. So in those, yes, we see those all the time. They are just not the outwardly noticable gifts. When you say gifts, obviously, most people think immediately of tongues, healing, etc. But there are other gifts, and yes I believe they are very important, and integral to God's church.

That's about the best I can do without looking up a ton of scriptures and taking up this entire forum with a post. You might go to this website: http://www.thecra.org/restherald.htm
They have a lot of useful stuff, from biblical scholars who are far more experienced and well versed than I am. It's a publication written by ministers, professors, and ton's of people from the RM. Hope this helps SOME!

I really appreciate this more than you can imagine Frame. So far as I can tell from what you are saying, I can't say I disagree with anything you have written nor do I find any of it unbiblical.

I especially agree with "it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical!" I've had my struggles in the past and recently with whether the Gifts of the Spirit (like prophesying, tongues, etc) are for today's Christians or not. And yes you are very correct in saying God can do whatever He wants, with whoever He chooses, whenever He deems it necessary.

I was taught in the CoC that in order for a disciple to have the gift of prophesy, etc. the Apostles needed to lay hands on that person, so essentially the gift would die out (so to speak). I can see in the scriptures why that is taught in the CoC.

Although I know that in the latter days the scriptures say that men and women will prophesy; men will dream dreams; and will also have visions, etc. I do feel as though we are in the last days in a lot of respects. So it is possible. And you're also correct in saying there are other gifts such as teaching, distinguishing spirits, etc.

I will definitely give the link you provided a look and want thank you, whole heartedly, for posting it -- I'm sure it will help immensly! As well as your heartfelt answers to my never ending questions. I think I'd be a bit on the ignorant side though if I got into ANY religion without some aforethought and investigation ya know? And I think you understand that is where the questions are coming from - a clean heart that truly wants to know!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you Frame!

 

[Frame1520]

Glad to be of some help! Feel free to ask anything else you may think of and if I don't know it, I'll try and find out!