Porn Misunderstanding

[Steezie]

Ok, theres something Im not really clear on when it comes to people's ideas of porn.

If you personally dont like porn, thats fine, thats your choice, this thread is not for you. My question is to people who dont like porn and who want to ban it or make it so others who DO enjoy porn to see it.

I see a couple of arguments against porn.

1. It exploits women
Well...Im not exactly sure how that works. Doesn't advertising for makeup, swim wear, beauty products, and clothes exploit women as well? And what about men? How are men magically immune to exploitation?

2. It objectifies women
Again, not sure how this process works. I also dont understand how this is different from most other menial jobs avalible such a waitress. ANYBODY thats worked retail can tell you that you WILL get treated like dirt for the job you do even if all your clothes are on. And as someone who has watched a decent amount of porn in his life, I can testify that I treat women very well and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any woman in my life that says different. Also, what about men? Why arent men objectified?

I havent seen many other decent non-religious arguments against porn. So enlighten me, why is this so bad?

By porn Im talking something thats made consentually with legal adults

 

[FaithLikeARock]

When 4 out of 5 teenagers you meet tell you they learned about sex from porn OR from friends who learned about it from porn, you have a problem and the porn industry isn't working to fix it. Porn gives an innaccurate portrayal of women, of men, of sex, and basically turns what should be a beautiful action into something that you can do with absolutely anyone.

I don't care if adults look at it, but it's bad for teenagers and it's very easy to find for them. It would almost be easier to ban it.

 

[Steezie]

When 4 out of 5 teenagers you meet tell you they learned about sex from porn OR from friends who learned about it from porn, you have a problem and the porn industry isn't working to fix it. Porn gives an innaccurate portrayal of women, of men, of sex, and basically turns what should be a beautiful action into something that you can do with absolutely anyone.

See I think thats something on the parents. If you dont bother to teach your kids about the differences between porn and actual sex, I fail to see why its the porn industry's job to do it

 

[sidhe]

When 4 out of 5 teenagers you meet tell you they learned about sex from porn OR from friends who learned about it from porn, you have a problem and the porn industry isn't working to fix it. Porn gives an innaccurate portrayal of women, of men, of sex, and basically turns what should be a beautiful action into something that you can do with absolutely anyone.

I don't think that's as much an issue with the porn industry as the pathetic state of sex education in America. Me, I learned about sex from my older sister and a copy of "The Joy of Sex," and about the risks from my dad's medical school books and seeing "The Miracle of Life" NOVA special...which put my sex education worlds ahead of most of my peers.

As I like to say, porn doesn't objectify or demean anything. It's an inanimate object incapable of such emotional actions. The viewers bring their own objectification and demeaning attitudes to the viewing. The rules of comparative literature - that reading implies a reader - carry over to film. If someone views something, it implies a viewer with their own prejudices, experiences, etc.

 

[Everlasting33]

edited

 

[Everlasting33]

double post

 

[Bombila]

I don't care about adults accessing porn (although most of it is pretty boring or/and includes 'ick' factors I find really offputting), but I do question consensuality in some cases. I'd like to see a much more regulated industry for the protection of the actors, not just in terms of safety from disease or injury, but from being pressured into doing things they'd prefer not to do.

Case in point: There's a television documentary series that follows a fairly mainstream porn film producer through various projects. In one episode he was dealing with an actor who was clearly upset, scared, and squicked out by what she was supposed to do. And frankly, she was bullied into performing.

That made it to my television - what else is going on out there where no one has a documenting camera turned on the action?

 

[Everlasting33]

Steezie,


I hope you take the time to read my post




"Research reveals many systemic effects of Internet pornography that are undermining an already vulnerable culture of marriage and family. Even more disturbing is the fact that the first Internet generations have not reached full-maturity, so the upper-limits of this impact have yet to be realized. Furthermore, the numerous negative effects research point to are extremely difficult, if not impossible, for individual citizens or families to combat on their own.


This testimony is not rooted in anecdotal accounts or personal views, but rather in findings from studies published in peer-reviewed research journals. I have submitted a review of this research to the Committee, and request that it be included in the record.
The marital relationship is a logical point of impact to examine because it is the foundational family unit and a sexual union easily destabilized by sexual influences outside the marital contract. Moreover, research indicates the majority of Internet users are married and the majority seeking help for problematic sexual behaviour online are married, heterosexual males. The research indicates pornography consumption is associated with the following six trends, among others:

1. Increased marital distress, and risk of separation and divorce,
2. Decreased marital intimacy and sexual satisfaction,
3. Infidelity
4. Increased appetite for more graphic types of pornography and sexual activity associated with abusive, illegal or unsafe practices,
5. Devaluation of monogamy, marriage and child rearing,
6. An increasing number of people struggling with compulsive and addictive sexual behaviour.

These trends reflect a cluster of symptoms that undermine the foundation upon which successful marriages and families are established.

While the marital bond may be the most vulnerable relationship to Internet pornography, children and adolescents are the most vulnerable audience.​

When a child lives in a home where an adult is consuming pornography, he or she encounters the following four risks:

• Decreased parental time and attention​
• Increased risk of encountering pornographic material​
• Increased risk of parental separation and divorce and​
• Increased risk of parental job loss and financial strain​

When a child or adolescent is directly exposed the following effects have been documented:

• Lasting negative or traumatic emotional responses,​
• Earlier onset of first sexual intercourse, thereby increasing the risk of STD’s over the lifespan,​
• The belief that superior sexual satisfaction is attainable without having affection for one’s partner, thereby reinforcing the commoditization of sex and the objectification of humans.​
• The belief that being married or having a family are unattractive prospects;​
• Increased risk for developing sexual compulsions and addictive behavior,​
• Increased risk of exposure to incorrect information about human sexuality long before a minor is able to contextualize this information in ways an adult brain could.​
• And, overestimating the prevalence of less common practices (e.g., group sex, bestiality, or sadomasochistic activity)."​

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Family/tst111405a.cfm

http://www.mcap1.com/

 

[Washington]

I hope you take the time to read my post

I note that the author of the report, Jill C. Manning, M.S.was a visiting social fellow of the Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.C. at the time she assembled her paper, and presented herself as such in the paper. Of course, anyone associated with the Heritage Foundation, a very conservative think tank with a strong conservative religious bent, would be expected to issue findings in line with such a philosophy and therefore can be expected to present evidence and conclusions that have a distinct conservative bias.
So, unlike presentations that undergo peer review, this cannot be considered to be anywhere near as trustworthy, and even demand a fair amount of circumspection.

 

[Washington]

When 4 out of 5 teenagers you meet tell you they learned about sex from porn OR from friends who learned about it from porn, you have a problem and the porn industry isn't working to fix it.

4 out of 5? Are you sure it isn't 5 out of 7? Or 9 out of 11? Figures like this that are pulled out of the air (no accompanying substantiation) are only good for a laugh. Anyway, aside from the unintentional humor, can I assume the problem you refer to is that these teens aren't learning it from where they should: good sex ed classes in school? If so, why should one expect the porn industry to fix it?

 

[Steezie]

Case in point: There's a television documentary series that follows a fairly mainstream porn film producer through various projects. In one episode he was dealing with an actor who was clearly upset, scared, and squicked out by what she was supposed to do. And frankly, she was bullied into performing.

Then I have to ask if thats something unique to porn or if its symptomatic of labor problems in the US. This is something that occurs across all labor boundaries, I invite you to investigate the treatment of minority and immigrant workers.

"Research reveals many systemic effects of Internet pornography that are undermining an already vulnerable culture of marriage and family...

Washington makes an excellent point, the source for your post is not exactly un-biased

 

[Everlasting33]

I note that the author of the report, Jill C. Manning, M.S.was a visiting social fellow of the Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.C. at the time she assembled her paper, and presented herself as such in the paper. Of course, anyone associated with the Heritage Foundation, a very conservative think tank with a strong conservative religious bent, would be expected to issue findings in line with such a philosophy and therefore can be expected to present evidence and conclusions that have a distinct conservative bias.
So, unlike presentations that undergo peer review, this cannot be considered to be anywhere near as trustworthy, and even demand a fair amount of circumspection.

I understand your point. Although I cannot speak for her, I would assume that any researcher tries to avoid as much bias as possible. Of course, one cannot eliminate all bias but most researcher probably try to. Is that not one of the first rules of any research method? I can understand why atheists/non Christians may vier away from a conservative writing but is it helpful to have this black and white thinking? "Well, this is completely bias so all of this is completely false." Perhaps there is some truth to be told in that paper? For example the author states, "when a child lives in a home where an adult is consuming pornography, he or she encounters the following four risks:

• Decreased parental time and attention​
• Increased risk of encountering pornographic material​
• Increased risk of parental separation and divorce and​
• Increased risk of parental job loss and financial strain"​

Are these not legitimate and accurate risks? Where is the bias in this?

Also, please let me know what statements you hold as bias.


*******************


I found another research article through my school's website about the impact of pornography on both men and women:




http://web.ebscohost.com.ezproxy.liberty.edu:2048/ehost/pdf?vid=26&hid=14&sid=7ffc0d93-dec9-4bec-b7df-43ee789f10b7%40sessionmgr3

Let me know if it works!

 

[Bombila]

Then I have to ask if thats something unique to porn or if its symptomatic of labor problems in the US. This is something that occurs across all labor boundaries, I invite you to investigate the treatment of minority and immigrant workers.

Of course it isn't unique to porn. Poor treatment of workers in any occupation is wrong. The commonality between porn industry workers and minority and immigrant workers is this: they have little power and are in industries that have few protections, like unions and industry safety standards.

I was seriously repelled by what I saw, and I'm not referring to the sex, but to the way the actor was treated by her employer, the way he discussed her reaction before and after, and the fact that the actor clearly was unable to adequately defend herself or feel able to refuse in the circumstances. That woman needed someone on her side, and a union shop steward would have filled the bill nicely, IMO.

 

[morningstar2651]

When 4 out of 5 teenagers you meet tell you they learned about sex from porn OR from friends who learned about it from porn, you have a problem and the porn industry isn't working to fix it. Porn gives an innaccurate portrayal of women, of men, of sex, and basically turns what should be a beautiful action into something that you can do with absolutely anyone.

I don't care if adults look at it, but it's bad for teenagers and it's very easy to find for them. It would almost be easier to ban it.

Well then, maybe sex education should make use of more videos. Realistic videos, that is (no excessive faked moaning or stupid role plays). I researched this topic a few months ago expecting to find a negative affect on sex education from porn. I was surprised by my own conclusions. If we think logically, everyone has a different way of learning. Some people are visual learners, some are auditory learners, and some are haptic (hands-on) learners.

Why not make it 5 out of 5 teens? Assuming an accurate video, it's better than learning from a textbook, an awkward lecture, or through unsafe sex.

I can't stand a lot of the inaccuracies of some porn because it ruins the suspension of disbelief...unless it's funny.

On a side-note, have you ever heard of SFW (safe for work) Porn?

 

[morningstar2651]

See I think thats something on the parents. If you dont bother to teach your kids about the differences between porn and actual sex, I fail to see why its the porn industry's job to do it

One of the observations in my research on the affects of pornography on sex education is that everyone I interviewed knew that pornography was scripted and unrealistic.

 

[cantata]

Exploitative or objectifying pornography does exist. But that's not a reason to ban it. Adults who consent to appear in pornography are... well, consenting adults. And there you go. Bad pornography reflects bad attitudes, far less the other way round.

 

[Alexandrah]

I am not against the idea of adults responsibly consuming pornography. I think that for educated and mentally stable adults it can be fine and also a safe outlet for some people to explore their fantasies and open the lines of communication between spouses regarding sex acts.

On the other hand, I think that a lot of pornography helps to promote a very unrealistic portrayal of the way that women are and while I understand that the main audience it's being sold to is men--it makes the act all about men. Has anyone here ever seen pornography that portrays a sexual act where both parties are considered? Most of it ends when the man climaxes, it's done, with no regard to the woman involved. I think that it also can promote the idea that women will do anything for money, even things that the average woman might find uncomfortable or degrading.

When people say it objectifies women it is partly true. Of course, they are obviously consenting to the objectification. It turns a woman into someone that must do anything and everything with whoever because she is being paid and I think that is the most detrimental aspect of it.

Do I think it should be banned? As an adult that consumes pornography responsibly I do not think it should be banned, just as I don't think alcohol or other things that can be potentially damaging should be banned. But as a woman I feel a moral dilemma when I consider the effect it has on our social views of sexuality and gender.

 

[Alexandrah]

See I think thats something on the parents. If you dont bother to teach your kids about the differences between porn and actual sex, I fail to see why its the porn industry's job to do it

Ahh, this is an interesting conundrum.

How would a parent go about doing that? Would you sit down with your child and point out the inconsistencies during sex between real people and the sex occurring between actors?

"See that woman son? Real women don't get their breasts surgically enhanced to be that large, they don't wear that much makeup, and they don't climax within a minute of penetration"

I think pornography would be a lot less popular if all of it started with a woman being comforted and wooed emotionally by their partner, given a proper amount of time to warm up with foreplay and then have adequate consideration given to their comfort and pleasure, with a little pillow talk afterward. lol

 

[The Nihilist]

Perhaps there is some truth to be told in that paper? For example the author states, "when a child lives in a home where an adult is consuming pornography, he or she encounters the following four risks:

• Decreased parental time and attention​
• Increased risk of encountering pornographic material​
• Increased risk of parental separation and divorce and​
• Increased risk of parental job loss and financial strain"​

Are these not legitimate and accurate risks? Where is the bias in this?

Also, please let me know what statements you hold as bias.

The Heritage Foundation has an agenda. This calls into question the legitimacy of its research that may be used to promote its agenda. If you have some better sources, I'd be happy to look at them

 

[Gishin]

The internet has tons upon tons of amateur porn that is nothing more than a couple videotaping themselves having actual sex. These would make decent visual aids as opposed to using a porn that was a production.