POPES...Going through Mary.

[simonthezealot]

"With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race." (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus)

"With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ, thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother....How grateful and magnificent a spectacle to see in the cities, and towns, and villages, on land and sea-wherever the Catholic faith has penetrated-many hundreds of thousands of pious people uniting their praises and prayers with one voice and heart at every moment of the day, saluting Mary, invoking Mary, hoping everything through Mary." (Pope Leo XIII, Octobri Mense)

"O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee, none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee." (Pope Leo XIII, Adiutricem Populi)




CAN ANYONE ATTACH SCRIPTURE TO ANY OF THIS...
DIDN'T THINK SO!

I FIND THIS ALL VERY VERY TROUBLESOME.

 

[Hentenza]

"With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race." (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus)

"With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ, thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother....How grateful and magnificent a spectacle to see in the cities, and towns, and villages, on land and sea-wherever the Catholic faith has penetrated-many hundreds of thousands of pious people uniting their praises and prayers with one voice and heart at every moment of the day, saluting Mary, invoking Mary, hoping everything through Mary." (Pope Leo XIII, Octobri Mense)

"O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee, none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee." (Pope Leo XIII, Adiutricem Populi)

"Mary is all powerful with her divine Son who grants all graces to mankind through her" (Pope Benedict XV, Fausto Appetente Die)


CAN ANYONE ATTACH SCRIPTURE TO ANY OF THIS...
DIDN'T THINK SO!

I FIND THIS ALL VERY VERY TROUBLESOME.

Yes, I have read those before. And people wonder why I oppose false teachings.

 

[simonthezealot]

Yes, I have read those before. And people wonder why I oppose false teachings.

i for one am glad that you like I oppose them, I wish more around here did.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I oppose them too! Been told a couple of times now in threads, that we Prots teach a different gospel...after reading the OP...I think that was a bit backwards...THAT is obsurd!

 

[Davidnic]

"With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race." (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus)

"With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ, thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother....How grateful and magnificent a spectacle to see in the cities, and towns, and villages, on land and sea-wherever the Catholic faith has penetrated-many hundreds of thousands of pious people uniting their praises and prayers with one voice and heart at every moment of the day, saluting Mary, invoking Mary, hoping everything through Mary." (Pope Leo XIII, Octobri Mense)

"O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee, none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee." (Pope Leo XIII, Adiutricem Populi)

"Mary is all powerful with her divine Son who grants all graces to mankind through her" (Pope Benedict XV, Fausto Appetente Die)


CAN ANYONE ATTACH SCRIPTURE TO ANY OF THIS...
DIDN'T THINK SO!

I FIND THIS ALL VERY VERY TROUBLESOME.

I've always wondered why people used that quote:

"Mary is all powerful with her divine Son who grants all graces to mankind through her" (Pope Benedict XV, Fausto Appetente Die)

When that is not what the document says. In fact those words are not found in the document. They are to be found on two websites that are not connected with the Catholic Church in any way. So if people want to quote the document, quote the document...not someone's rewording of it. It does not say she is "all powerful" but simply that she has authority. Not authority over him but as in authorization. Given placement by Christ. Such is her authority with Christ not over Him.

And the rest of the quotes are simply out of context.

They are troublesome if taken out of context but to place them in context of how Catolic devotion to Mary is properly ordered read:

For the Right Ordering and Development of Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary
Pope Paul VI (link)

That says:

Christ is the only way to the Father (cf. Jn. 14:4-11), and the ultimate example to whom the disciple must conform his own conduct (cf. Jn. 13:15), to the extent of sharing Christ's sentiments (cf. Phil. 2:5), living His life and possessing His Spirit (cf. Gal. 2:20; Rom. 8:10-11).

The Church has always taught this and nothing in pastoral activity should obscure this doctrine. But the Church, taught by the Holy Spirit and benefiting from centuries of experience, recognizes that devotion to the Blessed Virgin, subordinated to worship of the divine Savior and in connection with it, also has a great pastoral effectiveness and constitutes a force for renewing Christian living.

 

[Davidnic]

Do people also get troubled by this:


Christ is the only way to the Father (cf. Jn. 14:4-11), and the ultimate example to whom the disciple must conform his own conduct (cf. Jn. 13:15), to the extent of sharing Christ's sentiments (cf. Phil. 2:5), living His life and possessing His Spirit (cf. Gal. 2:20; Rom. 8:10-11).

The Church has always taught this and nothing in pastoral activity should obscure this doctrine. But the Church, taught by the Holy Spirit and benefiting from centuries of experience, recognizes that devotion to the Blessed Virgin, subordinated to worship of the divine Savior and in connection with it, also has a great pastoral effectiveness and constitutes a force for renewing Christian living.

Because that is the best summation of how devotion to Mary is to be ordered according to Chruch teaching.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

what would happen if you took Mary out of the equation?

 

[Davidnic]

what would happen if you took Mary out of the equation?

How so? As in, does grace get to people if Mary is gone. Grace comes from God, no one else. He will get it to us how and when He pleases.

Mary is the fountain of Grace because Christ came through her. She is His mother and our mothers are not replaceable parts without identity. They are chosen for us by God. As Mary was. So we tie her closely to Grace and recognize that Christ loves her dearly. But she is not the source of Grace, that is God.

 

[Davidnic]

An honest question in return. Why is it necessary to hypothetically remove Mary from the equation?

 

[simonthezealot]

"Mary is all powerful with her divine Son who grants all graces to mankind through her" (Pope Benedict XV, Fausto Appetente Die)

.

After reading through it, my usually very accurate source proved off... I've deleted it from my post.
My apologies, please forgive my lack of follow through on double checking my post...

 

[Davidnic]

After reading through it, my usually very accurate source proved off... I've deleted it from my post.
My apologies, please forgive my lack of follow through on double checking my post...

Forgiven in all respects with no hesitation. I have seen that version used and have tried to trace it's origin. If someone is not personally familiar with the document it does not jump out. No way you could have known.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

An honest question in return. Why is it necessary to hypothetically remove Mary from the equation?

my point is, your denomination puts alot of emphasis on Mary.My question is, what would happen if you took her out of the equation? Hypotetically, I guess it isn't important to remove her if you feel she has the place she has. BUT, and this is only my thoughts...if Mary was removed, the whole of, ok maybe not whole..but alot of RCC doctrine/teaching etc..would crumble?

I am saying she is blessed...the Word says so, but I guess I don't get the 'devotion' to her that the RCC puts on her.

 

[Davidnic]

my point is, your denomination puts alot of emphasis on Mary.My question is, what would happen if you took her out of the equation? Hypotetically, I guess it isn't important to remove her if you feel she has the place she has. BUT, and this is only my thoughts...if Mary was removed, the whole of, ok maybe not whole..but alot of RCC doctrine/teaching etc..would crumble?

I am saying she is blessed...the Word says so, but I guess I don't get the 'devotion' to her that the RCC puts on her.

I don't think alot of RC doctrine would crumble. I can see that it may seem that way. But honestly we do not put as much emphasis on her as it appears. Now, compared to some...yes we put a lot on her. But if that emphasis takes away from Christ it is disordered. And the Church teaches that.

All our focus on Mary must serve to draw to Christ. All Marian teaching must be (and is) at it's heart Christ centered.

If a Catholic does not need that emphasis, that is fine. But it helps draw many to Christ. Now, disordered use of the devotion is gravely wrong in that it can detract from Christ.

But proper emphasis can draw one closer to Christ and give many spiritual fruits. And it has done so for a long time. Even many of the Protestant reformers did not disagree with much of the Marian teachings. The opposition to that is honestly one of confusion and misunderstanding that we as brothers and sisters have of each other.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I don't think alot of RC doctrine would crumble. I can see that it may seem that way. But honestly we do not put as much emphasis on her as it appears. Now, compared to some...yes we put a lot on her. But if that emphasis takes away from Christ it is disordered. And the Church teaches that.

All our focus on Mary must serve to draw to Christ. All Marian teaching must be (and is) at it's heart Christ centered.

If a Catholic does not need that emphasis, that is fine. But it helps draw many to Christ. Now, disordered use of the devotion is gravely wrong in that it can detract from Christ.

But proper emphasis can draw one closer to Christ and give many spiritual fruits. And it has done so for a long time. Even many of the Protestant reformers did not disagree with much of the Marian teachings. The opposition to that is honestly one of confusion and misunderstanding that we as brothers and sisters have of each other.

fair enough. I don't necessarily agree...but that was a fair reponse...thank you.

 

[Davidnic]

fair enough. I don't necessarily agree...but that was a fair reponse...thank you.

You are most welcome.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I am beginning to have shock...there ARE nice Catholics on this board! LOL..j/k

 

[Iollain]

I am beginning to have shock...there ARE nice Catholics on this board! LOL..j/k

Davidnic is a very nice feller, i've never saw him not be

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

Davidnic is a very nice feller, i've never saw him not be

Yes, he seems to be. Not arrogant like a few others I have run into...thank you Davidnic. I really do appreciate it. YOu are showing true Christian love towards others...

 

[Davidnic]

Yes, he seems to be. Not arrogant like a few others I have run into...thank you Davidnic. I really do appreciate it. YOu are showing true Christian love towards others...

You are very welcome. And I thank you very much for your part in the conversation. There are times when we will not agree. But maybe, just maybe we can come one step closer in understanding each other.

I do not doubt for even a second that we all love our dear Savior and try our best to serve Him and bring Him to others. Though we may disagree on much, as long as we have Christ in common, all things are possible.

May our Lord Jesus Christ and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit always be with us all.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

You are very welcome. And I thank you very much for your part in the conversation. There are times when we will not agree. But maybe, just maybe we can come one step closer in understanding each other.

I do not doubt for even a second that we all love our dear Savior and try our best to serve Him and bring Him to others. Though we may disagree on much, as long as we have Christ in common, all things are possible.

May our Lord Jesus Christ and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit always be with us all.

AMEN and amen brother. You are starting to restore my faith in 'Catholic' people!