Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

OphidiaPhile · Dec 24, 2008

bsd13 said:
Nope. That would be Satan. If you are not in Christ and saved you are a slave to Satan.

I do not believe god or satan exist.

Nathan45 · Dec 24, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
Sorry Nathan45, but people are opposed to abstinence, it is generally not taught in schools or in may AID's programs.

No. people are opposed to abstinence education. Because it's a waste of time and money and can sometimes have opposite the intended effect. People don't oppose abstinence, just the idea that we need to educate children about it.

Alsonot everyone can be relied on to use condomns

Really that's not true. People need to know that it's OK to keep condoms around just in case, where to find them, etc. Of course that's not the major point of sex education... i guess the primary function would be to dispell all of those stupid urban legends surrounding sex.

bsd13 · Dec 24, 2008

Nathan45 said:
You just called me a slave of Satan, and you're going to back down now? Ok. Goodbye.

I actually don't think this, but considering that we are involved in a conversation/debate on an internet forum it is normal to assume that the other person would provide arguments in support of their positions (Your position is that i'm a slave of satan )

in all seriousness, it's usually a different pitch from every christian i talk to.

Maybe it's time to go to sleep. lol.

So your suggestion to "ask God" only works if God responds? Gotcha.

I suppose I expect people on Christian forums who, even if they aren't Christians, to know the Bible. I apologize if I expect to much. The Bible says you are a slave of Satan. Though if your a literalist it says you are a slave to sin, but it's not hard to draw the conclusion that a slave to sin is a slave to Satan. So forgive me for expecting too much.

When I was a satanist I knew the Bible better than most Christians because "know thy enemy" and I have a habit of thinking others, especially if they are going to engage in debate, would know it as well. If not know it then be willing to spend time searching it out. Perhaps you are.

I say to ask God because I've been around the block a few billion times. Both as a heathen and as a believer. I know full well that the ONLY thing that will convince a reprobate mind of their need for a savior is God Almighty Himself. Nothing I say is going to convince you. Even if you suddenly became a believer after reading my post it wouldn't be because of me it would be because God choose at that moment to let you hear and see clearly.

bsd13 · Dec 24, 2008

OphidiaPhile said:
I do not believe god or satan exist.

So? Your belief, or lack of doesn't change anything regarding the fact that they do exist.

bsd13 · Dec 24, 2008

Nihilismus said:
Well, you've already conceded. Don't let the reply button hit you on the way out.

There's a difference between concession and not wasting my time on someone. You'd be that someone who is a waste of time. Just thought you should know, Mr. "Morality is relative to whoever is committing the act."

OphidiaPhile · Dec 24, 2008

bsd13 said:
So? Your belief, or lack of doesn't change anything regarding the fact that they do exist.

There is more evidence that Unicorns and dragons have existed than god or satan so how anyone can believe that which is but myth is beyond me.

bsd13 · Dec 24, 2008

OphidiaPhile said:
There is more evidence that Unicorns and dragons have existed than god or satan so how anyone can believe that which is but myth is beyond me.

When you die you'll either be right or wrong, huh.

OphidiaPhile · Dec 24, 2008

bsd13 said:
When you die you'll either be right or wrong, huh.

When I die I will not be able to care.

Nathan45 · Dec 24, 2008

bsd13 said:
I suppose I expect people on Christian forums who, even if they aren't Christians, to know the Bible. I apologize if I expect to much. The Bible says you are a slave of Satan. Though if your a literalist it says you are a slave to sin, but it's not hard to draw the conclusion that a slave to sin is a slave to Satan. So forgive me for expecting too much.

When I was a satanist I knew the Bible better than most Christians because "know thy enemy" and I have a habit of thinking others, especially if they are going to engage in debate, would know it as well. If not know it then be willing to spend time searching it out. Perhaps you are.

I say to ask God because I've been around the block a few billion times. Both as a heathen and as a believer. I know full well that the ONLY thing that will convince a reprobate mind of their need for a savior is God Almighty Himself. Nothing I say is going to convince you. Even if you suddenly became a believer after reading my post it wouldn't be because of me it would be because God choose at that moment to let you hear and see clearly.

God Almighty convinced you himself, did he? Could you possibly tell me how this literally went down? Give me a narrative, or something.

bsd13 · Dec 24, 2008

OphidiaPhile said:
When I die I will not be able to care.

Absolutely true.

It'll be to late then.

bsd13 · Dec 24, 2008

Nathan45 said:
God Almighty convinced you himself, did he? Could you possibly tell me how this literally went down? Give me a narrative, or something.

Send me a PM reminding me and I'll be happy to.

Nihilismus · Dec 24, 2008

bsd13 said:
There's a difference between concession and not wasting my time on someone. You'd be that someone who is a waste of time. Just thought you should know, Mr. "Morality is relative to whoever is committing the act."

You really cannot refute that, can you? Does that fact make you afraid?

brightmorningstar · Dec 24, 2008

To Nathan45,

No. people are opposed to abstinence education. Because it's a waste of time and money and can sometimes have opposite the intended effect.

So why do they spend all that money of teaching safe sex when its obviously not working either?

Really that's not true.

Well it evidently is or the level of abortions from unwanted pregnancies wouldnt be at record levels.

Nathan45 · Dec 24, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Nathan45,
So why do they spend all that money of teaching safe sex when its obviously not working either?

Well it evidently is or the level of abortions from unwanted pregnancies wouldn’t be at record levels.

i've heard the opposite so go ahead and cite your statistics.

And please don't cite ones that compare today's birth/abortion rates to ones in, say, the 50s, as that was a totally different culture lacking things such as the internet and britney spears.

CreedIsChrist · Dec 24, 2008

Gremlins said:
Being Catholic is so embarassing sometimes =[

well its kinda futile and dishonest to be of a faith and not follow its dogmas. The Pope is already reaffirming something that is already obvious to christianity as a whole. I thought the speech was very mild and non provoking if you ask me, compared to what some hardcore evangelicals say.

There are many christians who sincerly believe and want to help homosexuals because that is what they sincerly believe. As one christian said, "Not trying to help a homosexual would be like letting someones house burn down while they are sleeping at night". So while it may be offensesive to some they are at least sincere in what they are trying to do.

brightmorningstar · Dec 24, 2008

To Nathan45,

i've heard the opposite so go ahead and cite your statistics.

And please don't cite ones that compare today's birth/abortion rates to ones in, say, the 50s, as that was a totally different culture lacking things such as the internet and britney spears.

well firstly I will quote whatever I like if you want me to quote stats. Secondly the comparison of todays abortion rates as a percentage of population and its increase as society increases the licence of sexual practice and safe sex shows exactly why.
You may be saying to me not to cite stats that show you are wrong

Nathan45 · Dec 24, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Nathan45,
well firstly I will quote whatever I like if you want me to quote stats. Secondly the comparison of todays abortion rates as a percentage of population and its increase as society increases the licence of sexual practice and safe sex shows exactly why.
You may be saying to me not to cite stats that show you are wrong

Statistics comparing now to the 50s arn't valid and i told you exactly why, there are too many variables to control for.

As for more recent statistics you're perfectly capable of googling it just as well as i can. They don't show what you think they show.

OphidiaPhile · Dec 24, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Nathan45,
well firstly I will quote whatever I like if you want me to quote stats. Secondly the comparison of todays abortion rates as a percentage of population and its increase as society increases the licence of sexual practice and safe sex shows exactly why.
You may be saying to me not to cite stats that show you are wrong

Abortion rates are decreasing nationally.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/94330.php

"The U.S. abortion rate declined 9% from 2000 to 2005, reaching its lowest rate since 1974, according to a study released Thursday by the Guttmacher Institute, the Washington Post reports. The number of abortions declined to 1.2 million abortions in 2005, the lowest number since 1976, according to the study (Stein, Washington Post, 1/17). The findings will be published in the March issue of Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health (Peres, Chicago Tribune, 1/17).

The study was based on a survey conducted regularly since the 1970s of all abortion providers known to Guttmacher nationwide. The 2005 study surveyed 1,787 abortion providers, the Post reports. The total number of abortions among women ages 15 to 44 decreased by 8% from 1.3 million in 2000 to 1.2 million in 2005. These figures continue a declining trend that began in 1990, when the number of abortions peaked at more than 1.6 million. The abortion rate decreased by 9% from 21.3 abortions per 1,000 women ages 15 to 44 in 2000 to 19.4 abortions per 1,000 women in 2005. The abortion rate peaked in 1981 at 29.3 abortions per 1,000 women, the Post reports."

Nathan45 · Dec 24, 2008

OphidiaPhile said:
Abortion rates are decreasing nationally.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/94330.php

"The U.S. abortion rate declined 9% from 2000 to 2005, reaching its lowest rate since 1974, according to a study released Thursday by the Guttmacher Institute, the Washington Post reports. The number of abortions declined to 1.2 million abortions in 2005, the lowest number since 1976, according to the study (Stein, Washington Post, 1/17). The findings will be published in the March issue of Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health (Peres, Chicago Tribune, 1/17).

The study was based on a survey conducted regularly since the 1970s of all abortion providers known to Guttmacher nationwide. The 2005 study surveyed 1,787 abortion providers, the Post reports. The total number of abortions among women ages 15 to 44 decreased by 8% from 1.3 million in 2000 to 1.2 million in 2005. These figures continue a declining trend that began in 1990, when the number of abortions peaked at more than 1.6 million. The abortion rate decreased by 9% from 21.3 abortions per 1,000 women ages 15 to 44 in 2000 to 19.4 abortions per 1,000 women in 2005. The abortion rate peaked in 1981 at 29.3 abortions per 1,000 women, the Post reports."

i'm too lazy to dig up the study ( google it ) but i believe the rates actually increased after 2005. Go figure, that was about when Bush did his big abstinence-only education push....

coincidence?

OphidiaPhile · Dec 24, 2008

Nathan45 said:
i'm too lazy to dig up the study ( google it ) but i believe the rates actually increased after 2005. Go figure, that was about when Bush did his big abstinence-only education push....

coincidence?

That does not surprise me at all since we all know telling a teenager not to do something guarantees he or she will not do it.

And of course educating them about the responsibilities of sex is a much less logical thing to do than just telling them not to.

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