Pope Laments 'Dying' Churches in West

[Anthony]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=986224&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Pope Benedict XVI lamented the seemingly "dying" church in Europe and the United States and raised questions about the soaring number of priests in Asia and Africa in a lengthy, off-the-cuff speech to Italian priests.

"This is certainly a suffering linked, I'd say, to our time, in which generally one sees that the great churches appear to be dying," he said, mentioning Australia, Europe and the United States.


How does this square in your area of the country/world?

 

[Anthony]

I guess this must not be as big an issue as the Pope thinks, not much concern, worry or comments here.

 

[BillH]

Sorry... must have missed this post earlier... will write more in a minute.

 

[BillH]

Well, there are people who can speak better for Europe and Australia than I, but...

I find that there are still plenty of people around who consider themselves Catholic, and even attend mass on a pretty regular basis. I don't see this changing very soon, so, in that sense, I don't see the Church as "dying."

However, there is a spiritual crisis in that a lot of members of the Church have pushed faith to the margins of their lives and are generally unwilling to give themselves over to Christ. This is manifested in a material sense in the decline of priestly and religious vocations, which does prevent a real problem for the Church. Some places do better than others. I just moved from a diocese that was really struggling in terms of ordaining new priests, but the one that I'm in now has a poster in our parish with pictures of the (rather large number) of seminarians. So the process is uneven, but in the sense of vocations, yes, I do believe that the overall trend is, unfortunately, downwards.

 

[Stormy]

I think the Church should take some, if not much, of the blame. Our faith speaks volumes that we are still here, although struggling, after the way the children abuse by Priests was handled.

Maybe the Pope needs to look within to find the problem. We have Jesus, but if the church is to gain strength we also need honest, moral, trustworthy leadership.

 

[Anthony]

This is confusing.

If you have faith, you have faith. Dying means what?

1. Older Catholics are dying at a rate higher than new Catholics are coming on board or
2. More and more Catholics are losing their faith? . . . That's not it.
3. They haven't lost their faith, it's just they are not active, they're dormant Catholics?
4. There are plenty of Catholics, just harder and harder to get new priests? That's been a problem for over 30 years.

Maybe it's that the Africa and Asia areas are out paces the West, growing faster. So the west looks dead in comparison?

 

[bostonlass]

Benedict he said the "joy" at the growing numbers of churchmen in the developing world is accompanied by "a certain bitterness" because some would-be priests were only looking for a better life.

"Becoming a priest, they become almost like a head of a tribe, they are naturally privileged and have another type of life," he said. "So the wheat and the chaff go together in this beautiful growth of vocations.

"Bishops have to be very attentive to discern (among the candidates) and not just be happy to have many future priests, but to see which ones really are the true vocations discern between the wheat and the chaff," he said.

Benedict also touched on another his favorite themes: the state of the church in Europe. He said in contrast to the developing world, where there is a "springtime of faith," the West was "a world that is tired of its own culture, a world that has arrived at a time in which there's no more evidence of the need for God, much less Christ, and in which it seems that man alone can make himself.

You know maybe it's me but this is confusing. On the one hand he's saying it's great that Africa has so many new priests but then he admits it's because they want to be head of the tribe rather than wanting to be priests for the right reasons. Africa is obviously a nation riddled with poverty and disease so wouldn't it make sense that people would want to join the priesthood so they'd have an income? The US and Europe are educated and pretty much wealthy comparatively speaking so people have many more options. I don't think it's something to boast about and I certainly wouldn't say our faith is dying in comparison. The people in Africa are literally dying and people tend to cling to faith in those situations. Who has not prayed to God in earnest when in great peril? I'm sure directly after 9/11 the US had tons of people renewing their faith.

 

[benedictine]

Africa is a continent, not a nation. A solution for His Holiness, is to create an Anglican Rite. Not just in the US, either. Also, he can't be quiet about it, he has to advertise.

 

[bostonlass]

Africa is a continent, not a nation. A solution for His Holiness, is to create an Anglican Rite. Not just in the US, either. Also, he can't be quiet about it, he has to advertise.

 

[Paul S]

Africa is a continent, not a nation. A solution for His Holiness, is to create an Anglican Rite. Not just in the US, either. Also, he can't be quiet about it, he has to advertise.

I'd suggest another Rite.

 

[Axion]

I'd have to say its down to "relativism" in the west - particularly in the Church.

Catholicism is NOT taught or preached firmly, simply, directly and faithfully. That is the core of most of the problems in the Church in the developed world.

Most "Catholics" don't know their faith because it hasn't been taught properly. We get piecemeal stuff that teaches "be good and pray occasionally then you'll be okay." I hate to sound like a broken record, but Liberalism is in my mind chiefly to blame. Liberalism turns easily to indifferentism. Many say "all roads lead to God", "be a good muslim, protestant, atheist; and you are on the right path".

If those who teach and lead do not seem to see or believe Catholicism is the one TRUE way, then the taught and the led won't either. we have bibles, the notes of which say that a lot of what is in the bible was invented or fraudulently added. We have teachers who imply that a lot of Catholicism is useless "mumbo-jumbo", and completely irrelevant, or else that you can be as well saved outside the Church. We have masses that devalue the holiness of the Eucharist.

And yes, we have had Bishops who have thought that the rules of the faith need not be applied to the priests serving beneath them.

Once these problems are dealt with, and we preach a solid, vibrant catolicism, the fall-away will be dealt with.

 

[Anthony]

I'd have to say its down to "relativism" in the west - particularly in the Church.

Catholicism is NOT taught or preached firmly, simply, directly and faithfully. That is the core of most of the problems in the Church in the developed world.

Most "Catholics" don't know their faith because it hasn't been taught properly.

If those who teach and lead do not seem to see or believe Catholicism is the one TRUE way, then the taught and the led won't either.

we have bibles, the notes of which say that a lot of what is in the bible was invented or fraudulently added. We have teachers who imply that a lot of Catholicism is useless "mumbo-jumbo", and completely irrelevant, or else that you can be as well saved outside the Church. We have masses that devalue the holiness of the Eucharist.

And yes, we have had Bishops who have thought that the rules of the faith need not be applied to the priests serving beneath them.

Once these problems are dealt with, and we preach a solid, vibrant catolicism, the fall-away will be dealt with.

Who's fault is all of this? The laity and/or the clergy?

I would say laziness and lack of studing the bible for most.

Most believers are just domesticated cows on Satan's farm(earth); Contently grazing.


As far as the bible; people have tried to destory it's value and purpose for thousands of years. One interesting point, there is no orginal Bible. All Bibles are copies of copies, which were copies of still other copies. There were no printing presses, no xerox machines, no scanners. These copies were [1] hand written copies, and [2] translations from Latin to English, latin to German, Latin to Spanish etc. Is it any wonder that over the years these millions of copies are not perfect duplicate?