Sainthood next? Pope John Paul to be beatified - World news - Europe - msnbc.com
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Pope John Paul II 1 merical away to be beatified
- Thread starter OpenDoor
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- May 19, 2015
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MrPolo
Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
The article says this is the fastest beatification on record? That is completely wrong. Mother Teresa was beatified after 4 years of her death. And other saints before the modern canonization process were canonized (not just beatified) after only 2 years, like St. Francis of Assisi. And who knows how many others. This is the 6th year after JP2's death.
Just another reminder---never trust the press to get their facts straight, particularly with something pertaining to Catholics.
Just another reminder---never trust the press to get their facts straight, particularly with something pertaining to Catholics.
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Lively Stone
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That is Catholicism and not Biblical. God calls all who believe in Jesus Christ saints.
I find it crazy that a bunch of fallible men on earth can assign special status in heaven of someone who is either there or isn't and will receive his just reward by God Himself. What can man add to that? It's just religion carried to a point beyond what God asks of us.
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If we ask the potential saint to pray for us and a miracle is granted we take that as a sign from God that they are in heaven and able to pray for us. One is needed for each the two final steps. If they happen and after investigation are verified then that, along with a life of what we call "heroic virtue" then the person can be sainted and the faithful will have reasonable assurance that they are in heaven, alive in Christ and can pray to God for those who ask for their intercession.
A miracle for beatification is not required if the person was a martyr.
We do not look at it as "making someone" a saint God does that by them being in heaven. We see the miracles as a proof offered by God that the person is there. Since it is God alone who can do miracles.
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Jig
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There is a separation between God and man. This separation is created by sin. The only person who can mediator and intercede for us between this gap must be someone who is BOTH God and man. Jesus is the only one who fits this bill.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man is Christ Jesus...
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man is Christ Jesus...
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With a saint we are not talking about mediation but intercession, Theologically they are different things. Intercession is the same as if a person prays to God for another. That process is not a mediation
In Greek there is a difference between saying mediator and intercessor, even if English and modern languages are imprecise. Of course there is a similarity in the word meanings but no one would say that one praying for another means they are seen as a mediator in the way Christ, by His death and resurrection, is a mediator. Rather they are an intercessor or petitioner on behalf of another. It is clear what we mean because we refer to prayers that are not adoration, thanksgiving or the like as petition" We take the word intercession from the Greek entunchano that translates as to make petition. So when we call someone an intercessor we mean they pray or petition for us.
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Jig
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Sure. It's possible for me to ask my friends and family to pray for me. However, it is impossible to ask dead people to pray for you.
First off, those who are dead aren't watching us like a sitcom or listening in on our prayers - they are awaiting judgment. Second, even if they could what makes you think they'd have the divine nature of omnipresence? How could they be in all these different places at the same time to hear all these prayers from millions of Catholics? They are finite souls.
Don't try to pray to dead people...pray instead to our Lord and Savior who is ALIVE!
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All who die in Christ are alive in Christ. He conquered death and lifts us to eternal life. Death has no meaning for who the Lord saves and those who love God with their whole heart love His creation and desire for all to be happy with the Lord and follow Him. They praise Him and seek His plan for all.
No one thinks they are divine or omnipresent, all they do is by God's power not their own. God allows what He allows. We pray to Christ all the time. We also seek the prayers of those in heaven who are our family in Christ.
The Saints in heaven pray to God, worshiping Him, praising Him and adoring Him. I find it hard to believe that in that is not the love and desire for the good and need of all of His children who seek Him. And because of that: prayers for us too. And we believe that God lets them know who to offer such prayers for. Again, nothing is by their own power only by God's.
If you don't like it...by all means do not do it. But nothing, especially the same several hundred year old misconceptions and rehashed arguments, is going to make me forsake a practice that 73% of Christianity still does or has done, with good theological reason, for over 2000 years. It did not come from or continue to be maintained by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and some Anglicans with no reason or as a lark.
So I am sure the same old same old will occur in this thread in regard to the prayers of saints. Since the answer was given as to why a miracle is needed, I will leave it to others who desire the tenor of such a rehash.
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Jig
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We are made alive again when we resurrect with new glorified bodies. In the meantime, those who believed and have passed are just "dead in Christ" awaiting his return. (1 Thess. 4:16)
John Paul 2 is "dead in Christ". He certainly is not living. Life requires a body.
Death has lost its sting because we will rise out of it. This has not happened yet.
Where is the Scripture that says that when you die God gives you power to hear and process innumerable prayers from people all over the world at the same time?
No one is in Heaven. No one is in Hell. The dead are awaiting judgment.
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Osage Bluestem
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so the canonization of the bible is also not biblical?
apples and oranges
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