Pope Francis' health - when is it time to retire?

[BobRyan]

US Conference of Catholic Bishops - reports on several health challenges for the 88 year old Pope Francis.

Pope's condition worsened after inhaling vomit, on stronger ventilation

Pope Francis experienced a new respiratory crisis while recovering from double pneumonia at Rome’s Gemelli Hospital. A bronchospasm and coughing led to an ...

www.usccb.org

While we wish him the best of health - this brings up the issue of retirement and electing the next Pope.

Some questions come to mind:
1. This is the first Jesuit Pope , what are the chances that the next Pope would also be a Jesuit?
2. Jesuits are instructed not to take leadership roles in the Catholic Church where that leadership holds church authority -

"On the one hand, Jesuits aren't supposed to be in positions of authority," said the Rev. Joseph Fessio, a Jesuit and founder of Ignatius Press.

3. Wouldn't it be less stressful on a Pope in a condition of declining health - to allow him to retire?
4. What is the point of having someone serve in office no matter their health condition until they pass away?

 

[RileyG]

I think he will be Pope until he passes. This isn’t like being a banker. He’s the spiritual leader for all Catholics.

You are spot on about the Jesuits, though.

 

[chevyontheriver]

1. This is the first Jesuit Pope , what are the chances that the next Pope would also be a Jesuit?

Absolute zero. And not again for at least a hundred years.

2. Jesuits are instructed not to take leadership roles in the Catholic Church where that leadership holds church authority -

"On the one hand, Jesuits aren't supposed to be in positions of authority," said the Rev. Joseph Fessio, a Jesuit and founder of Ignatius Press.

Fessio is absolutely right.

3. Wouldn't it be less stressful on a Pope in a condition of declining health - to allow him to retire?

He can retire if and when he wants to retire. Nobody is stopping him.

4. What is the point of having someone serve in office no matter their health condition until they pass away?

Our Supreme Court has lifetime appointments. They are free to retire if and when they wish. Various kings and queens are so for life. They can abdicate if and when they wish. So too the pope. When he dies they pick a new one. Or when he chooses to retire.

 

[BobRyan]

1. This is the first Jesuit Pope , what are the chances that the next Pope would also be a Jesuit?

Absolute zero. And not again for at least a hundred years.

Why do you say that?
Would have also said the same thing when Pope Benedict XVI was in office about "the next Pope"?

ie "couldn't possibly be Jesuit"???

 

[BobRyan]

Our Supreme Court has lifetime appointments. They are free to retire if and when they wish.

Indeed but at 88 -- on a ventilator , inhaling their own stomach contents etc, not inclined to sit in on "Another case" or to "decide anything"

The question is "what is the point of remaining in office" under such conditions??

Various kings and queens are so for life. They can abdicate if and when they wish. So too the pope.

Kings and queens can retire in bed and do not have to hold court until their last breath. They don't have to decide much at all all monarchs in decline. They exist only to stop the next one in line from taking office but in reality they turn all of their actual duties over to people younger and more capable while they hang out at the golf course.

If the office actually serves no function then fine - hold it as an honorary position once you are aged and not inclined to do a desk job.
But if it has an actual function and you don't want to be going down the Biden-needs-to-be-excused-from-the-room path... well then...

 

[RileyG]

1. This is the first Jesuit Pope , what are the chances that the next Pope would also be a Jesuit?


Why do you say that?
Would have also said the same thing when Pope Benedict XVI was in office about "the next Pope"?

ie "couldn't possibly be Jesuit"???

Per Wikipedia, there are 7 current Jesuit cardinals. 3 cannot vote because they are older than 80, the remaining 4 can.

Will the next Pope be a Jesuit?

I don’t think so.

That’s my opinion only.

 

[RileyG]

Indeed but at 88 -- on a ventilator , inhaling their own stomach contents etc, not inclined to sit in on "Another case" or to "decide anything"

The question is "what is the point of remaining in office" under such conditions??


Kings and queens can retire in bed and do not have to hold court until their last breath. They don't have to decide much at all all monarchs in decline. They exist only to stop the next one in line from taking office but in reality they turn all of their actual duties over to people younger and more capable while they hang out at the golf course.

If the office actually serves no function then fine - hold it as an honorary position once you are aged and not inclined to do a desk job.
But if it has an actual function and you don't want to be going down the Biden-needs-to-be-excused-from-the-room path... well then...

Keep in mind, Pope Francis has only been Pope for about 12 years. That’s relatively short. Pope Benedict XVI, was Pope for 8 until he abdicated.

Will Pope Francis resign? I highly doubt it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Indeed but at 88 -- on a ventilator , inhaling their own stomach contents etc, not inclined to sit in on "Another case" or to "decide anything"

The question is "what is the point of remaining in office" under such conditions??


Kings and queens can retire in bed and do not have to hold court until their last breath. They don't have to decide much at all all monarchs in decline. They exist only to stop the next one in line from taking office but in reality they turn all of their actual duties over to people younger and more capable while they hang out at the golf course.

If the office actually serves no function then fine - hold it as an honorary position once you are aged and not inclined to do a desk job.
But if it has an actual function and you don't want to be going down the Biden-needs-to-be-excused-from-the-room path... well then...

My opinion is that this pope should never have been elected. Failing that he should have resigned or been removed a decade ago. IMHO. But he is here now.

I am of the opinion that, other than exceptionally extreme situations, popes should not resign. Or be forced out. Of which there is no existing mechanism anyway.

We are probably in pope Francis’ last days. It’s not likely he will linger on incompacitated for months. So the business of getting the pope’s work done isn’t impeded all that much. In fact the death of pope John Paul II actually conveyed the message of how to die well. He showed us what a good death looked like.

 

[chevyontheriver]

1. This is the first Jesuit Pope , what are the chances that the next Pope would also be a Jesuit?


Why do you say that?
Would have also said the same thing when Pope Benedict XVI was in office about "the next Pope"?

ie "couldn't possibly be Jesuit"???

This Jesuit pope ‘made a mess’ in such a way that will be long remembered. Just the chance that another Jesuit might be a little like Francis is enough to quash any chance of another Jesuit. For a very long time.

 

[BobRyan]

My opinion is that this pope should never have been elected. Failing that he should have resigned or been removed a decade ago. IMHO. But he is here now.

I am of the opinion that, other than exceptionally extreme situations, popes should not resign. Or be forced out. Of which there is no existing mechanism anyway.

All Three Popes defrocked at the same time

Popes were at one time elected by the college of Cardinals

That eventually resulted in three competing lines of Popes - all having successors - all elected by the same body of Cardinals.

Sigismund of Luxembourg was elected Holy Roman Emperor and called a council that pronounced itself in superiority to all Popes.

On November 11, 1417 they used a NEW system to elect the Pope - The cardinals were joined by six delegates of each nation - thirty in all - . That group then selected the next Pope - (a complete break from all THREE Papal lines !)

 

[chevyontheriver]

All Three Popes defrocked at the same time

Popes were at one time elected by the college of Cardinals

That eventually resulted in three competing lines of Popes - all having successors - all elected by the same body of Cardinals.

Sigismund of Luxembourg was elected Holy Roman Emperor and called a council that pronounced itself in superiority to all Popes.

On November 11, 1417 they used a NEW system to elect the Pope - The cardinals were joined by six delegates of each nation - thirty in all - . That group then selected the next Pope - (a complete break from all THREE Papal lines !)

Yes, that was an extreme where it made abundant sense for all of them to be removed so a single pope could be elected. The one with the best claim voluntarily abdicated to help clear the deck.

By the way, popes are still elected by the college of cardinals.

And, lest the past look worse than the present, there are multiple pope claimants even today. Pope Michael, who lived in Kansas, died a few years ago and has been replaced by ... pope Michael II. There is another pope in Switzerland calling himself pope Peter III. There are others. These are nothing but vanities.

 

[Michie]

Spanish Bishops: Conditions for Pope Francis to Resign Are Not Met

The bishops’ spokesman also stressed that 'we are not in a pre-conclave period; far from it' and made an appeal to the people of God to 'intensify prayer for the healing of this Pope.'

www.ncregister.com

 

[Michie]

Did Pope Francis Already Write a Resignation Letter?

Q: In light of the Holy Father’s present illness, I found an article online which was written a few years ago. It says that Pope Francis told an interviewer in 2013 that he had already writ…

canonlawmadeeasy.com

 

[RileyG]

Yes, that was an extreme where it made abundant sense for all of them to be removed so a single pope could be elected. The one with the best claim voluntarily abdicated to help clear the deck.

By the way, popes are still elected by the college of cardinals.

And, lest the past look worse than the present, there are multiple pope claimants even today. Pope Michael, who lived in Kansas, died a few years ago and has been replaced by ... pope Michael II. There is another pope in Switzerland calling himself pope Peter III. There are others. These are nothing but vanities.

I believe pope Peter iii is part of the Palamarian Catholic Church in Spain. They believe Mary is present in the Eucharist, along with Christ, and their Mass last about 5 minutes, if memory serves.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I believe pope Peter iii is part of the Palamarian Catholic Church in Spain. They believe Mary is present in the Eucharist, along with Christ, and their Mass last about 5 minutes, if memory serves.

Silly silly.

 

[RileyG]

Silly silly.

Yup. Agreed.

 

[FireDragon76]

Indeed but at 88 -- on a ventilator , inhaling their own stomach contents etc, not inclined to sit in on "Another case" or to "decide anything"

The question is "what is the point of remaining in office" under such conditions??


Kings and queens can retire in bed and do not have to hold court until their last breath. They don't have to decide much at all all monarchs in decline. They exist only to stop the next one in line from taking office but in reality they turn all of their actual duties over to people younger and more capable while they hang out at the golf course.

If the office actually serves no function then fine - hold it as an honorary position once you are aged and not inclined to do a desk job.
But if it has an actual function and you don't want to be going down the Biden-needs-to-be-excused-from-the-room path... well then...

The Pope's duties are mostly ceremonial, like a monarch. Kings don't usually abdicate, neither do popes.

Also, Catholics view his role as a spiritual one, meaning it's a sacred vocation... not a "job" in the usual sense. You can't apply profane logic to that you would a "desk job".

 

[RileyG]

The Pope's duties are mostly ceremonial, like a monarch. Kings don't usually abdicate, neither do popes.

Also, Catholics view his role as a spiritual one, meaning it's a sacred vocation... not a "job" in the usual sense. You can't apply profane logic to that you would a "desk job".

Yes! Exactly right! Thank you, sir!