Pope Francis apologizes to indigenous people

[Albion]

Probably not that many protestants in the audience either.

Certainly not any protestants who require an apology.

Maybe you think you're on OBOB now.

 

[LoAmmi]

I say, give America back to the indigenous Native American Indians?

It's been a bit too long for that, to be honest. We'd just be displacing millions of people who had nothing to do with the original circumstances and making the situation worse for everybody involved. Efforts should be made to improve the lives of the native Americans and allow them autonomy if they so desire it. True autonomy at that where they decide what happens on their land and what polices are in place there.

 

[tadoflamb]

I will try to say this as respectfully as I can and I mean no offense whatsoever, the apology of the pope to Indigenous people became even more irrelevant after he canonized Serra. He acknowledged and apologized for the sins committed against Indigenous people by the Catholic Church in the past, but then he turns around and shows that he must condone the sins Serra committed against Indigenous people by canonizing him as a saint. If the pope thought it was wrong what Serra did to the Indigenous people then he would not have canonized him in the first place. He basically put his stamp of approval on what Serra did when he canonized the man as a saint. The animosity and hostility toward Christianity and toward the Christian church has only intensified since the pope canonized Serra. Speaking personally, this canonization did cause me to resent the church and Christianity even more than what I already did. I cannot express the intensity of sadness and anger I felt before and after Serra's canonization. If the pope wants to bring about reconciliation between the Catholic church and Indigenous people, then what he needs to do is abolish every single papal bull of the churches past condoning the colonization and the forced Christianizing of Indigenous people. If he ever did that then his actions would actually prove to many Indigenous people that he is truly sorry and remorseful for the sins the Catholic church committed against our ancestors in the past. However, in the eyes of many Indigenous people, myself included, saying he is sorry and then canonizing Serra does not show us in anyway he is truly sorry and remorseful for what the Catholic church did to our ancestors in the past.

Thank you for your well thought out and concise post Red Fox.

That certainly was a strange time for me when Pope Francis came to the US. Instead of being all joyous and happy I felt pretty messed up. In the end, I don't take it as a bad thing. As an artist and a Catholic it's not a good thing to become complacent, and I'm always getting shaken out of my comfort zone.

The canonization of Junipero Serra shouldn't cause Native peoples to hate all of Christianity. Protestants have no authority to canonize anyone, nor do they venerate Saints, so they should be exempt from Indigenous derision. No, this is totally a Catholic thing.

In a way, it makes me sad that this has increased the animosity between Indigenous peoples and the Catholic Church, but in another way, I'm used to that animosity. Since becoming Catholic I've experienced contempt for my faith from my family, friends, non-Catholic Christians and now the Indigenous peoples. It doesn't matter, I'm still going to remain Catholic and I'm still going to take to heart Pope Francis's apology and consider the implications it has on my everyday life.

 

[smaneck]

On the other hand, he hasn't apologized to the rest of us, so maybe you should feel a bit more positive about the news.

What does he owe you an apology for? That the Church wouldn't let Henry get divorced?

 

[smaneck]

It's been a bit too long for that, to be honest. We'd just be displacing millions of people who had nothing to do with the original circumstances and making the situation worse for everybody involved. Efforts should be made to improve the lives of the native Americans and allow them autonomy if they so desire it. True autonomy at that where they decide what happens on their land and what polices are in place there.

True. There are some injustices that cannot be undone. We can only ask, "What do we do now?"

 

[tadoflamb]

True. There are some injustices that cannot be undone. We can only ask, "What do we do now?"

Absolutely. What we need to recognize is that Indigenous peoples and their cultures are still in peril. I can think of two instances locally where one tribe's existence, the Tarahumara is tenuous at best and another's, the San Carlos Apache, sacred ground is being given away by the US government to foreign mining interests.

So, the attempted annihilation of Indigenous peoples hasn't stopped and as a Catholic Christian of conscience, I have to ask myself, "what am I doing about it?"

 

[LoAmmi]

Absolutely. What we need to recognize is that Indigenous peoples and their cultures are still in peril. I can think of two instances locally where one tribe's existence, the Tarahumara is tenuous at best and another's, the White Mountain Apache, sacred ground is being given away by the US government to foreign mining interests.

So, the attempted annihilation of Indigenous peoples hasn't stopped and as a Catholic Christian of conscience, I have to ask myself, "what am I doing about it?"

If the government is giving it away, write to your Senators and Representatives. Let them know that it is wrong and you will not be voting for anybody who votes to give it away. Then write to your local government and tell them the same thing. Then follow though on it.

 

[tadoflamb]

If the government is giving it away, write to your Senators and Representatives. Let them know that it is wrong and you will not be voting for anybody who votes to give it away. Then write to your local government and tell them the same thing. Then follow though on it.

Thanks, I have and I will.

Here's a link if anyone else wants to get involved:

https://www.earthworksaction.org/vo...gclid=CJCniLag_MgCFZSPfgodEEULyg#.VjzaIdLnssZ

 

[Red Fox]

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[Red Fox]

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[Jack of Spades]

If Pope Francis was doing this to just score political points, why did he go on to canonize Junipero Serra? This proves to me he isn't going to something just to be politically correct.

You're Catholic so you might not see the pope as much as a politician as I do, but I can't argue about it here. Let's just say I have no single reason to assume that he would be anything else but a politician, so I look at his actions like any other politicians actions.

 

[Red Fox]

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[Red Fox]

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[LoAmmi]

I also ask that any attempts at justifying what happened to my ancestors (i.e. "They continuously fought and killed each other before the white man came") be honorably refrained from.

Even if it were true (and I'm not saying it is), that still wouldn't justify what happened.

 

[Red Fox]

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[LoAmmi]

It is true. Many of my ancestors did fight each other for land and hunting grounds. I know that. I am not denying that nor have I ever denied it. But unfortunately, this has been used by many people in an attempt to justify the theft of our tribal lands and the atrocities committed against my ancestors by the government and white settlers.

I'd take issue with the constantly in there. There were always lulls in any disputes and it doesn't mean that everything was done with killing.

There are people who tell us that the Holocaust happened because we didn't follow Jesus, so I know right where you are coming from.

 

[Albion]

What does he owe you an apology for? That the Church wouldn't let Henry get divorced?

You didn't bother to read post #38, I take it.

 

[smaneck]

Absolutely. What we need to recognize is that Indigenous peoples and their cultures are still in peril. I can think of two instances locally where one tribe's existence, the Tarahumara is tenuous at best and another's, the San Carlos Apache, sacred ground is being given away by the US government to foreign mining interests.

I thought Resolution Cooper Mining was Arizona-based. And aren't the Tarahumara a Mexican tribe?

 

[Red Fox]

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[LoAmmi]

That is an awful thing for anyone to say to you and to other Jewish people. I am very sorry to hear that. Much respect to you and your people, my friend.

I remember seeing people on this forum (not this subforum) state that what happened to your people is justifiable because many of you became Christian. I was appalled by such a notion though I feared speaking out too harshly where it was posted.