Pope Francis apologizes to indigenous people

[smaneck]

We've got a tribe near here, the Pascua Yaqui who have totally assimilated Christianity into their culture.

http://www.pascuayaqui-nsn.gov/index.php

When I lived in Tucson I used to attend their Easter ceremonies, especially the attack on the church on Holy Saturday.
The Yaquis were converted to Christianity by Jesuits but when the Jesuits were expelled from the Americas they were left to themselves and developed a synthesis of Christianity and Native American religion.

 

[tadoflamb]

When I lived in Tucson I used to attend their Easter ceremonies, especially the attack on the church on Holy Saturday.
The Yaquis were converted to Christianity by Jesuits but when the Jesuits were expelled from the Americas they were left to themselves and developed a synthesis of Christianity and Native American religion.

To be more specific, they are currently a vibrant and active Catholic community while still retaining their culture.

 

[smaneck]

To be more specific, they are currently a vibrant and active Catholic community while still retaining their culture.

Here is a description of their Easter rituals. http://www.rimjournal.com/arizyson/easter.htm

This video is of the Yacquis in their Holy Saturday ceremonies in Mexico but it is virtually identical to the ones I attended in Arizona.

 

[tadoflamb]

Here is a description of their Easter rituals. http://www.rimjournal.com/arizyson/easter.htm

This video is of the Yacquis in their Holy Saturday ceremonies in Mexico but it is virtually identical to the ones I attended in Arizona.

Thanks for sharing. The diversity of the Catholic faith is amazing.

 

[tadoflamb]

In retrospect, while the Pope's apology came some time ago I've noticed a trend of the Christians on this forum to separate themselves from the 'sins of their fathers'. If this is true, one would have to wonder why the pope is apologizing for anything, since he, himself, probably hasn't committed any grievous sins against indigenous peoples. In a way I'm jealous of this lack of accountability. As a Catholic and as a convert no less, I've been called to account for the sins of my spiritual kin, even though I've been a member of the Church for only a short while. Instead of considering this a nuisance, I'd rather consider it a source of grace. There's nothing wrong with being attached to a historical faith community, and there's nothing wrong taking on the sins of those who came before you as your own. The Holy Father, in his apology, is calling not just Catholics, but all Christians into a deeper inter reflection of what it means to be part of a faith community that goes way beyond ourselves. My sins affect the whole of the Church, it's a shame of modern Christianity that we would attempt to be only accountable to ourselves.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Every native I have met in this area is a Christian, at least nominally. We do have quite a few card-carrying Indians, being close to the Cherokee capital of Talequah, plus a lot of Choctaws as well. I've never met a real life Indian that followed native spirituality.

Then again, I don't know any Native Catholics either. Most are Baptist, like the rest of the general population.

With all due respect, this does not surprise me, considering the amount of assimilation that is in this area. I know NDNs who are Cherokee and Choctaw from Oklahoma, but none of them have a CDIB card for various reasons and none of them are Christian. I cannot say what they think or what I honestly think of Christian influence among NDNs.

Ok. Just giving my experience. I was only referring to card-carrying tribal members. If I included non-tribal members with Cherokee blood, I don't know how much it would affect the outcome.

Of course, the Cherokee and Choctaw were two of the "Five Civilized Tribes" which were mostly Christian by the early 1800s. So it's not a surprise that they still are mostly Christians. I know their official Facebook pages also post things like Happy Easter, etc for Christian holidays.

@Tallguy88,

I did not mean to sound rude to you. I am sorry if I did.

I say, give America back to the indigenous Native American Indians?

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In retrospect, while the Pope's apology came some time ago I've noticed a trend of the Christians on this forum to separate themselves from the 'sins of their fathers'. If this is true, one would have to wonder why the pope is apologizing for anything, since he, himself, probably hasn't committed any grievous sins against indigenous peoples. In a way I'm jealous of this lack of accountability. As a Catholic and as a convert no less, I've been called to account for the sins of my spiritual kin, even though I've been a member of the Church for only a short while. Instead of considering this a nuisance, I'd rather consider it a source of grace. There's nothing wrong with being attached to a historical faith community, and there's nothing wrong taking on the sins of those who came before you as your own. The Holy Father, in his apology, is calling not just Catholics, but all Christians into a deeper inter reflection of what it means to be part of a faith community that goes way beyond ourselves. My sins affect the whole of the Church, it's a shame of modern Christianity that we would attempt to be only accountable to ourselves.

In what way?


.

 

[Jack of Spades]

As for me personally, it's too little, too late.

I don't know what popes motives are in this and I won't speculate but just saying generally that it's very easy to say sorry after all the generations who committed the actual crimes, are dead. Admitting a wrong does no harm to anyone at that point, so it's politically very easy. Saying sorry about something that happened 10-20 years ago (guess what I'm thinking?) could mean that the case has to be reopened and heads would roll.

I don't admire leaders who take the easy points by saying sorry for crimes of another generations. It's too easy. If someone wants my hat to go off, they should say sorry about their own and their own generations wrongdoings and try to fix them.

 

[Yeshuas_My_Freedom]

In retrospect, while the Pope's apology came some time ago I've noticed a trend of the Christians on this forum to separate themselves from the 'sins of their fathers'. If this is true, one would have to wonder why the pope is apologizing for anything, since he, himself, probably hasn't committed any grievous sins against indigenous peoples. In a way I'm jealous of this lack of accountability. As a Catholic and as a convert no less, I've been called to account for the sins of my spiritual kin, even though I've been a member of the Church for only a short while. Instead of considering this a nuisance, I'd rather consider it a source of grace. There's nothing wrong with being attached to a historical faith community, and there's nothing wrong taking on the sins of those who came before you as your own. The Holy Father, in his apology, is calling not just Catholics, but all Christians into a deeper inter reflection of what it means to be part of a faith community that goes way beyond ourselves. My sins affect the whole of the Church, it's a shame of modern Christianity that we would attempt to be only accountable to ourselves.

You're jealous of the lack of accountability?

What good does it do to say to a new generation, sorry our church slaughtered so many of your ancestors, all these generations later? The testimony of Christ and his directions for the relationship that was suppose to be generated with the spread of his good news didn't include genocide as a means of sending that message.
That's not what Jesus intended, slaughtering people who didn't convert.
Christ's message was extant before the Apostles and their heirs set their feet to the first step in delivering the good news.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That's not what Jesus intended, slaughtering people who didn't convert.

That is a good one! I will be secretly smiling all day, Thank you.

 

[Red Fox]

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[Albion]

I know about this. There's a rather heated discussion about it in the OBOB forum. As for me personally, it's too little, too late.

On the other hand, he hasn't apologized to the rest of us, so maybe you should feel a bit more positive about the news.

 

[Red Fox]

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[tadoflamb]

In what way?


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You can see it right here in this thread, Steve. There seems to be a serious detachment between the individual believer and the historical Church.

 

[tadoflamb]

You're jealous of the lack of accountability?

What good does it do to say to a new generation, sorry our church slaughtered so many of your ancestors, all these generations later? The testimony of Christ and his directions for the relationship that was suppose to be generated with the spread of his good news didn't include genocide as a means of sending that message.
That's not what Jesus intended, slaughtering people who didn't convert.
Christ's message was extant before the Apostles and their heirs set their feet to the first step in delivering the good news.

Except I don't think the pope was apologizing for the hyperbole your perpetuating.

I'm sorry, but there's so much misinformation being circulated about the Catholic Church by our separated brethren it's hard to take your post seriously.

Still, your disconnect from historical Christianity has been noted.

 

[tadoflamb]

On the other hand, he hasn't apologized to the rest of us, so maybe you should feel a bit more positive about the news.

Probably because there's not a lot of Anglicans in Bolivia to apologize to.

That aside, St. John Paul II did make a famous apology for the 'over-zealousness' of our spiritual kin though it's gone largely ignored and unaccepted. Given the detachment that modern day protestants have with the historical Church I'm not sure why he felt compelled to do so.

I've also noted that in spite of the many transgressions committed against Catholics by our separated brethren no apology has been issued nor do I expect one to be forthcoming. Perhaps this is another symptom of individual Christians feeling like their only accountable to themselves, but it gives me pause to question, if an apology were to be issued, who would give it? It doesn't matter, I've already forgiven you guys anyway.

In spite of current thought, the Catholic Church isn't the only Christian body which can be implicated in it's role during the conquest of the Americas. Yet, as far as I can tell, no leader of a protestant denomination has been begging for forgiveness, nor imploring his/her congregation to do the same. No, the sins of the fathers don't seem to be any cause of any deeper reflection within the protestant tradition.

 

[tadoflamb]

Thank you for sharing your insight in this issue. I appreciate your perspective, my friend.

Thanks, I'm glad I can call you 'friend'.

 

[Albion]

Probably because there's not a lot of Anglicans in Bolivia to apologize to.

I said "the rest of us," not "Anglicans."

 

[tadoflamb]

I said "the rest of us," not "Anglicans."

Probably not that many protestants in the audience either.

Certainly not any protestants who require an apology.

 

[tadoflamb]

I don't know what popes motives are in this and I won't speculate but just saying generally that it's very easy to say sorry after all the generations who committed the actual crimes, are dead. Admitting a wrong does no harm to anyone at that point, so it's politically very easy. Saying sorry about something that happened 10-20 years ago (guess what I'm thinking?) could mean that the case has to be reopened and heads would roll.

I don't admire leaders who take the easy points by saying sorry for crimes of another generations. It's too easy. If someone wants my hat to go off, they should say sorry about their own and their own generations wrongdoings and try to fix them.

If Pope Francis was doing this to just score political points, why did he go on to canonize Junipero Serra? This proves to me he isn't going to something just to be politically correct.

And, in case you haven't noticed, heads are rolling under this pontiff.