Poor Design

[kingreaper]

They are not poor design, they are signs that we live in a world that has fallen away from God origional plan and purpose. But there is good news, God does have a plan of redemption and restoration for who so ever is willing.

Rev. 21:4
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

But what if someone eats form the tree that God seems too stupid, or stubborn, not to put in his perfect creations?

Whoopsy, heaven goes to 5h17

 

[Randall McNally]

They are not poor design, they are signs that we live in a world that has fallen away from God origional plan and purpose.

Ah, so they are what poor design would look like if the design was indeed poor. But we know the design was not poor because it was perfect until TEH FALL when it became unperfect but not because of design.

Something like that?

But there is good news, God does have a plan of redemption and restoration for who so ever is willing.

Are you going to tell us what is the catch?

 

[Lilandra]

in the Garden of Eden. Also biologically speaking it culls the weak and promotes the strongest to breed. Sounds intelligent to me.

Do you know what Genetic Engineering is? .

Hee Hee

You can't have meant that too sound as arrogant as it did. Genetic engineers already have the road map laid out for them by how the body, immune system, and DNAare designed. You are improving the original not creating the original Design.

Do you know what Genetic Engineering is? Please tell me you do, because right now there are scientists that are working on upgrading our immune system. And there are many things that we can look at now, like the flaws, and build an ever better immune system that future generations of people won't worry about the problems we've had to face.

In other words, science can offer answers to these design flaws and fix them. That is why I am a scientist and biologist, because we apply what we learn and fix it, not wonder why some "all intelligent being" did it that way.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

in the Garden of Eden. Also biologically speaking it culls the weak and promotes the strongest to breed. Sounds intelligent to me.

There is NO scientific evidence that suggests that humans at one time were made perfectly and then BAM we sinned and were cursed. None whatsoever. Show me a human (Adam or Eve) that was perfectly made, no errors, and I'll believe you.

But if your evidence is the Bible, keep in mind that book says many other non-scientific statements (ie: four corners of the earth, etc). Again, back up the claim that there was a fall outside of the Bible. Poor design is proof for evolution and it fits as natural selection is a blind watchmaker. It does not know the future, some structures, though poorly made, will be selected.

Hee Hee

You can't have meant that too sound as arrogant as it did.

That was not my intent, I was just asking. There are people who have not heard of it, I am finding out about my audience so I know where they are coming from.

Genetic engineers already have the road map laid out for them by how the body, immune system, and DNAare designed. You are improving the original not creating the original Design.

Exactly, we are fixing the errors placed by evolution. Now if you believe in God, we are fixing the errors put in by God (which many Christians are against and its obvious to see why).

 

[Lilandra]

There is NO scientific evidence that suggests that humans at one time were made perfectly and then BAM we sinned and were cursed. None whatsoever. Show me a human (Adam or Eve) that was perfectly made, no errors, and I'll believe you.

Prove to me the Big Bang theory happened or man evolved from monkeys and I will believe you.

But if your evidence is the Bible, keep in mind that book says many other non-scientific statements (ie: four corners of the earth, etc). Again, back up the claim that there was a fall outside of the Bible. Poor design is proof for evolution and it fits as natural selection is a blind watchmaker. It does not know the future, some structures, though poorly made, will be selected.

Someone probably knows where better than me but I don't think the Bible ever said the world was flat rather than round. The Earth probably does look like it has 4 corners from the perspective of whoever wrote the verse that you are referring to. Horizon looks like a straight line from ground level. I doubt they were proclaiming the Earth has 4 corners it was probably an aside.

That was not my intent, I was just asking. There are people who have not heard of it, I am finding out about my audience so I know where they are coming from.

Well cool.

Exactly, we are fixing the errors placed by evolution. Now if you believe in God, we are fixing the errors put in by God (which many Christians are against and its obvious to see why).

From a purely evolutionary standpoint. If you fix certain things that improve the species overall. Will beneficial evolution stop or will there be other negative effects? It is not nice to fool with Mother nature. (Disclaimer: referring to Nature not implying that nature is a cognizant divine being. I am not a pagan)

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

Prove to me the Big Bang theory happened or man evolved from monkeys and I will believe you.

Logic Fallacy - shifting the burden of proof. You made the claim about the fall, and yet you can't back it up. But either way ...

Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang.
And evolution does not say we came from monkeys but that we share a common ancestor.

Someone probably knows where better than me but I don't think the Bible ever siad the world was flat. The Earth probably does look like it has 4 corners from the perspective of whoever wrote the verse that you are referring to. Horizon looks like a straight line from ground level. I doubt they were proclaiming the Earth has 4 corners it was probably an aside.

Jesus and Satan are standing on top of a mountain and they see "all the nations of the world." Again not possible with a spherical earth. Now if you say Jesus and Satan have superpowers and can see everything anyway, then what were they doing on a mountain? Why did they have to go up to one in the first place?

The Bible OBVIOUSLY teaches the earth is flat, and that's not correct as we know.

From a purely evolutionary standpoint. If you fix certain things that improve the species overall. Will beneficial evolution stop or will thee be other negative effects? It is not nice to fool with Mother nature. (Disclaimer: referring to Nature not implying that nature is a cognizant divine being. I am not a pagan)

No, it will help us progress. That is our goal. Natural Selection is blind, we are not.

 

[Maynard Keenan]

The tailbone serves no purpose and is succeptible to breaking.

 

[john crawford]

In a year of AP Bio, we hit upon numerous flaws in the human body. Each time I recognized one, I thought, "Hey, that's a good argument against ID!"

Unfortunately, I never take notes, so the only one I can recall right now is the Esophagus/Trachea combination which makes it seem like God almost wants us to choke to death.

What examples of poor design can you recall?

No matter how many "examples" of "poor design" in nature one may discover, they may only be designated as "poor" in comparison to the millions of other well designed organs and organisms which are observable in the millions of species which flawless scientists have intelligently classified.

Perhaps the "poor" designs are the result of evolutionary mutation and mal-adaptive behavior through natural selection.

 

[Event Horizon]

The tailbone serves no purpose and is succeptible to breaking.

Actually, I think someone provided a link a while ago that showed it had uses in a different thread.

 

[Lilandra]

Logic Fallacy - shifting the burden of proof. You made the claim about the fall, and yet you can't back it up. But either way ...

Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang.
And evolution does not say we came from monkeys but that we share a common ancestor.

You said prove the Fall in Eden I said prove the Big Bang Theory or that Man evolved from monkeys.

You have Faith in Science that as you say we have a common ancestor with monkeys because you can't prove that either. I have Faith that what the Bible says is true. Neither one of us in immortal so you saying prove it is pointless as a rebuttal to quoting the Bible. Because there is no Scientific way to prove that it didn't happen the way the Bible says either.

Jesus and Satan are standing on top of a mountain and they see "all the nations of the world." Again not possible with a spherical earth. Now if you say Jesus and Satan have superpowers and can see everything anyway, then what were they doing on a mountain? Why did they have to go up to one in the first place?

Who am I to second guess where Satan and Jesus choose to talk?

The Bible OBVIOUSLY teaches the earth is flat, and that's not correct as we know.

I say again from a ground level perspective optically it is flat. Furthermore I don't know that it ever teaches that the world overall is flat. You are confusing what the Church used to say with what the Bible says. Please point out to me what verse that says the Earth overall is flat not just whatever area the writer is looking at.

No, it will help us progress. That is our goal. Natural Selection is blind, we are not.

Nature is objective we are not

 

[Event Horizon]

Who am I to second guess where Satan and Jesus choose to talk?
I say again from a ground level perspective optically it is flat. Furthermore I don't know that it ever teaches that the world overall is flat. You are confusing what the Church used to say with what the Bible says. Please point out to me what verse that says the Earth overall is flat not just whatever area the writer is looking at.

The Bible said it, so the churches taught it. Flat earth Biblical creationists used to be the majority centuries ago, but now the largest organization of them is the Flat Earth Society which has 200 members. Some of the verses in the Bible are:
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor."- Job 38:13
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?" -Matthew 4:8
"In the visions of my mind as I was lying in bed, I saw this: There was a tree in the middle of the earth, and its height was great."- Daniel 4:10
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."- Isaiah 40:22
There are plenty more.

 

[william jay schroeder]

The Bible said it, so the churches taught it. Flat earth Biblical creationists used to be the majority centuries ago, but now the largest organization of them is the Flat Earth Society which has 200 members. Some of the verses in the Bible are:
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor."- Job 38:13
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?" -Matthew 4:8
"In the visions of my mind as I was lying in bed, I saw this: There was a tree in the middle of the earth, and its height was great."- Daniel 4:10
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."- Isaiah 40:22
There are plenty more.

he sits enthroned above the CIRCLE of the earth, if you say creationist know nothing of science i can surly say evolutionist know nothing of the bible.

 

[JohnR7]

Ah, so they are what poor design would look like if the design was indeed poor.

Just tune into Jerry Springer, he will be glad to show you. We do not study man after the fall. We study man before the fall. We can look at Adam, before He ate the forbidden fruit, or we can look at Jesus. Either way, we will see what God's plan, purpose and intention is.

Are you going to tell us what is the catch?

The catch is that it will cost you everything. But they say no man is a fool who will give up what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.

 

[william jay schroeder]

Logic Fallacy - shifting the burden of proof. You made the claim about the fall, and yet you can't back it up. But either way ...

Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang.
And evolution does not say we came from monkeys but that we share a common ancestor.

Jesus and Satan are standing on top of a mountain and they see "all the nations of the world." Again not possible with a spherical earth. Now if you say Jesus and Satan have superpowers and can see everything anyway, then what were they doing on a mountain? Why did they have to go up to one in the first place?

The Bible OBVIOUSLY teaches the earth is flat, and that's not correct as we know.

No, it will help us progress. That is our goal. Natural Selection is blind, we are not.

they say this because they know its impossible, yet how do you just skip straight to a organism without proving how it became this first ancestor. your pretty much say it just became it and began. thats what we say God spoke and it was. With out the big bang or something thats what your saying.

 

[Lilandra]

The Bible said it, so the churches taught it. Flat earth Biblical creationists used to be the majority centuries ago, but now the largest organization of them is the Flat Earth Society which has 200 members. Some of the verses in the Bible are:
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor."- Job 38:13
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?" -Matthew 4:8
"In the visions of my mind as I was lying in bed, I saw this: There was a tree in the middle of the earth, and its height was great."- Daniel 4:10.

The last one is a dream. You cannot take a metaphor literally usually it is an image that somehow by comparison gives you a greater understanding of what it is being compared too. Is love a red rose like the poets always say? Or is it like a red rose?

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."- Isaiah 40:22
There are plenty more.

Not sure why you quoted the last one because it says God's throne is above the circle of the Earth not flat Earth.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

You said prove the Fall in Eden I said prove the Big Bang Theory or that Man evolved from monkeys.

Again shifting the burden of proof a fallacy, not to mention a strawman as evolution does not have anything to do with the big bang nor does it say we came from monkeys.

You have Faith in Science that as you say we have a common ancestor with monkeys because you can't prove that either. I have Faith that what the Bible says is true. Neither one of us in immortal so you saying prove it is pointless as a rebuttal to quoting the Bible. Because there is no Scientific way to prove that it didn't happen the way the Bible says either.

Science is the study of the natural world based on evidence. There are many claims in the Bible unsupported like Eden. Are you going to back these claims or keep committing a fallacy by shifting the burden of proof?

Who am I to second guess where Satan and Jesus choose to talk?
I say again from a ground level perspective optically it is flat. Furthermore I don't know that it ever teaches that the world overall is flat. You are confusing what the Church used to say with what the Bible says. Please point out to me what verse that says the Earth overall is flat not just whatever area the writer is looking at.

I am showing you that if you take the Bible literal at every word it is obvious the earth is flat from the Bible's perspective.

 

[Randall McNally]

Not sure why you quoted the last one because it says God's throne is above the circle of the Earth not flat Earth.

How many spatial dimensions does a circle have?

 

[Lilandra]

because you don't want to address the substance. Just because you cannot test for God with any method that science currently has doesn't mean that He is not real or that He does not exist or that He did not design the Universe down to a minute detail.

You brag about bioengineer's ability to redesign evolution. The process of bioengineering ape's God's ability to create biological marvels. The brain that enables them to do this was designed by an intelligent Being just like it takes intelligence to perform Science not blind evolution as you put it.


Your signature claims that an intelligent man admits he doesn't know everything.

Any freshman Literature major knows not to take figurative language literally. But to examine it to see what it reveals.

Just like in any book the Bible uses Literal language and figurative language. Point me to a verse that says in literal language that the Earth is flat.

Again shifting the burden of proof a fallacy, not to mention a strawman as evolution does not have anything to do with the big bang nor does it say we came from monkeys.


Science is the study of the natural world based on evidence. There are many claims in the Bible unsupported like Eden. Are you going to back these claims or keep committing a fallacy by shifting the burden of proof?


I am showing you that if you take the Bible literal at every word it is obvious the earth is flat from the Bible's perspective.

 

[NamesAreHardToPick]

because you don't want to address the substance. Just because you cannot test for God with any method that science currently has doesn't mean that He is not real or that He does not exist or that He did not design the Universe down to a minute detail.

I am not arguing against God, I am arguing against the idea that we were created by a being six thousand years ago.

You brag about bioengineer's ability to redesign evolution. The process of bioengineering ape's God's ability to create biological marvels. The brain that enables them to do this was designed by an intelligent Being just like oit takes intelligence to perform Science not blind evolution as you put it.

Showing examples of good design does not make the bad design go away. There is poor and good design; evolution is the only theory that explains why for both.

Your signature claims that an intelligent man admits he doesn't know everything.

"The trouble with the world is the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" ~ Bertrand Russell. I admit that I don't know how life got here or the universe (I do not accept the Big Bang theory), but I am not foolish enough to say "GOD DID IT!" That is nonsense, as there is no evidence for God (but this is again, off topic).

Any freshman Literature major knows not to take figurative language literally. But to examine it to see what it reveals.

Just like in any book the Bible uses Literal language and figurative language. Point me to a verse that says in literal language that the Earth is flat.

Oh so then I guess you can say it is metaphoric when you don't agree, but when you agree it becomes literal? Oh dear ...

 

[Garnet2727]

The female anatomy. Er....the playground next to the sewer.