Polygamy

[JohnR7]

Is Polygamy selected for with natural selection? Don't you have a situation where the males will fight each other and the winner will get to keep all of the females for himself? Do we see this in humans where you have women that chase after the men who are successful in winning sporting competitions.

 

[AnEmpiricalAgnostic]

Is Polygamy selected for with natural selection? Don't you have a situation where the males will fight each other and the winner will get to keep all of the females for himself? Do we see this in humans where you have women that chase after the men who are successful in winning sporting competitions.

I think what you are pondering is more specifically sexual selection rather than just natural selection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection

 

[Goatboy]

-“He’s a Morman, Ben. He has two wives.”
-“I’ll kill him!”

Polygamy (presuming you mean a long term relationship, as opposed to adultery), is quite common (widow birds and elephant seals spring to mind).

Yes it leads to competition (as will any limited resource) and probably the most famous example of it in humanity is Genghis Khan (can’t remember the figures, but a fair percentage of men today carry a Y chromosome that can be traced back to 11th century Mongolia).

But I’m unaware of any reason to think it always has to be violent competition.

Women seeking to become pregnant by sport stars isn’t really the same thing. Unless they’re looking to make it a long term arrangement and are willing to share him.

 

[JohnR7]

Women seeking to become pregnant by sport stars isn’t really the same thing.

My understanding was that women who go shopping at the sperm bank tend to look for men who are tall, well educated and athletic. I suppose that blond hair and blue eyes would be a nice added bonus.

 

[JohnR7]

I think what you are pondering is more specifically sexual selection rather than just natural selection.

Ok, so does that make sexual selection a part of natural selection?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Is Polygamy selected for with natural selection? Don't you have a situation where the males will fight each other and the winner will get to keep all of the females for himself?

Yes. The urge is to spread genes as far and wide as possible. With the exception of humans, there are no monogamous animals -- and even humans aren't all monogamous.

Do we see this in humans where you have women that chase after the men who are successful in winning sporting competitions.

Women also chase after actors, musicians, government leaders, and authors. I doubt the influence is as much about biology as it is about society -- these men tend to be quite wealthy and/or influential.

 

[Split Rock]

Ok, so does that make sexual selection a part of natural selection?

I would say it is, because it affects fitness (i.e. the ability to reproduce).

As far as your question is concerned, polygamy is evident in many species, including humans. It therefore seems to be a good way to leave many offspring.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Ok, so does that make sexual selection a part of natural selection?

Not exactly. They are two separate mechanisms, either of which can be a driving force behind the evolution of a population.

Look a peacocks, for example. Female peacocks (peahens) are attracted to males with large colorful tails -- presumably because that is the sign of a healthy, virile male.

So, the bigger and brighter the tail, the more attractive the male is to the female. That's sexual selection.

But it has to stop somewhere, doesn't it? Otherwise we'd see peacocks strutting around with tails the size of SUVs.

As tails get bigger and bigger, eventually they would become a disadvantage, as the peacocks would find it more difficult to fly, move around, find food, or escape from whatever predators peacocks may have.

Between sexual selection and natural selection, a balance would eventually be reached, with peacocks growing tails large enough to attract mates, but still small enough to not be burdensome.

So sexual selection is not "part" of natural selection, since it's possible for the two of them to come into direct conflict.

 

[Goatboy]

Ok, so does that make sexual selection a part of natural selection?

Depends how broad minded you are and what floats your boat.


(If the term natural selection covers all variables that affect reproductive success, then yes, but there is a lot of room for semantic quibbling.)

I've seen some movement to just use the term Selection.

 

[JohnR7]

these men tend to be quite wealthy and/or influential.

There is no question that this is a consideration in a third world nation. Women are looking for a roof over their head, food on the table and shoes for their feet and for their baby. It is usually in the more developed counties women feel they can be more independant of a man and take care of their own needs.

 

[Nathan Poe]

It is usually in the more developed counties women feel they can be more independant of a man and take care of their own needs.

Their needs, perhaps, but what about their desires?

Nobody needs a Rolls Royce, a diamond necklace, or a mansion in Beverly Hills, but women and men will go to great lengths to acquire them...

 

[JohnR7]

Nobody needs a Rolls Royce, a diamond necklace, or a mansion in Beverly Hills, but women and men will go to great lengths to acquire them...

How much control do you really think that people have over that? Why don't we use you for an example. If you were to go back to school for another 10 years, do you think that you would be able to generate more income?

I have heard about people like a producers of the American Idol show that make 30 million a year. He saw that there was a lot of money to be made as a producer in the record business so he did what he could to learn that business so that he could make lots of money. But I am sure there are others in that business that don't make any money.

Eccles. 9:11
I returned and saw under the sun that--
The race is not to the swift,
Nor the battle to the strong,
Nor bread to the wise,
Nor riches to men of understanding,
Nor favor to men of skill;
But time and chance happen to them all.

 

[Nathan Poe]

How much control do you really think that people have over that? Why don't we use you for an example. If you were to go back to school for another 10 years, do you think that you would be able to generate more income?

I have heard about people like a producers of the American Idol show that make 30 million a year. He saw that there was a lot of money to be made as a producer in the record business so he did what he could to learn that business so that he could make lots of money. But I am sure there are others in that business that don't make any money.

Eccles. 9:11
I returned and saw under the sun that--
The race is not to the swift,
Nor the battle to the strong,
Nor bread to the wise,
Nor riches to men of understanding,
Nor favor to men of skill;
But time and chance happen to them all.

Relevence?

 

[b*unique]

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[Aimee30]

Is Polygamy selected for with natural selection? Don't you have a situation where the males will fight each other and the winner will get to keep all of the females for himself? Do we see this in humans where you have women that chase after the men who are successful in winning sporting competitions.

I'd rather chase after a a sensitive, caring man with a higher IQ.
However, I didn't know this was the question and not a debate about polygamy itself.
See Old Testament figures regarding more information like Jacob, Abraham, and Kings for examples regarding this topic and read the parts carefully that people quote as being against polygamy that are in the Bible, is my advice.
Edit: Furthermore, blue eyes and blond is not a always a bonus--I like brown eyes better.

 

[Aimee30]

Removed and added to other response.