Polygamy in the Old Testament vs New Testament

[JohnClay]

This thread is based on some of my posts in the thread:
Morality is objective, except when it isn't

I think in the Old Testament the only passage somewhat against polygamy is:

Deuteronomy 17:16-17

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the Lord has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.​

Here God had an opportunity to discourage polygamy, but he just said that kings can't have many wives. And the penalty for this is his heart will be led astray. If God was against polygamy, why didn't he use this opportunity to speak against it? So this is just about kings, and it seems that a couple of wives (not many) is ok.

Examples of polygamy in the Old Testament: (consider how widespread it was)

Polygamists in the Bible -- Directory - Biblical Polygamy . com
The * means it is implied
Abdon* Abijah Abraham Ahab Ahasuerus Ashur Belshazzar Benhadad Caleb David Eliphaz Elkanah Esau Ezra Gideon Heman* Hosea* Ibzan* Issachar** Jacob Jair* Jehoiachin Jehoram Jerahmeel Joash Lamech Machir Manasseh Mered Moses Nahor Rehoboam Saul Shaharaim Shimei* Simeon Solomon Terah* Zedekiah Ziba*

​

In the case of Solomon he had about 700 wives and 300 concubines.

coffee4u says that Adam and Eve implies (or proves) that God wanted there to be one man for one woman for life. The woman was made out of a rib of a man. I think that implies that a man could have multiple wives since he has multiple ribs to spare.

As far as I know there are no examples of polygamy in the New Testament. I think the reason for this is their Greek and Roman culture, not because God changed the rules.

There is an advantage of a man having many wives vs a woman with many husbands. In the first case it is obvious who the parents are of the children. If a woman has many husbands it isn't clear who the father is.

BTW there are also animals who have a "harem" (or pride) like lions.

Deuteronomy 17:16-17 also says "He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold". Solomon is also guilty of this... 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13 say "The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents" - apparently that's about 22 tons of gold.... it also says Solomon had 12,000 horses ("must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself")

Both David and Solomon seem to be quite close to God since they wrote books that were included in the Bible. Though the Deuteronomy passage did come true... 1 Kings 11:3 says the wives did lead him astray.... (I was impressed that the 700 wives did have royal birth)

Using only the Old Testament is it possible to make the case that God is clearly against a man having more than one wife at once? Why are there dozens of examples of polygamy?

In the New Testament are there (apparently) no examples of polygamy because of the Greek and Roman culture or because Christians received a message from God against polygamy? (that Jesus mentions indirectly)

 

[Sketcher]

The Jewish view from what I've read is that polygamy was legal but not recommended. A rabbi banned it in the medieval years.

New Testament teaching makes no room for polygamy. If a married man cannot look at a woman he is not married to with lustful intent lest he commit adultery, then it follows that he could not pursue her to be his second simultaneous wife lest he commit adultery. And it is plain that polygamy is among many things forbidden to church leaders. Every requirement of a church leader should be pursued by every practicing Christian.

 

[JohnClay]

The Jewish view from what I've read is that polygamy was legal but not recommended.

Many of the main figures in the OT had multiple wives (and/or concubines) including people who were close to God like David.... perhaps it was not recommended because it meant less women to go around.... (though I don't think the OT uses that reasoning)

A rabbi banned it in the medieval years.

I'd assume that was based on the surrounding cultures rather than being based on the OT alone...

New Testament teaching makes no room for polygamy. If a married man cannot look at a woman he is not married to with lustful intent lest he commit adultery, then it follows that he could not pursue her to be his second simultaneous wife lest he commit adultery.

This problem would also be the case before he married his first wife. Do you think Christians were against polygamy because of these sayings of Jesus or because of the Greek and Roman laws?
BTW David did look at Bathsheba with lust but I think God was mainly against him having her husband killed....
Also NT teaching almost also makes no room for divorce... but Christians often ignore that.

And it is plain that polygamy is among many things forbidden to church leaders. Every requirement of a church leader should be pursued by every practicing Christian.

But was this because of Greek and Roman laws? If God was against this why didn't he make it clear in the Old Testament?

 

[HTacianas]

This thread is based on some of my posts in the thread:
Morality is objective, except when it isn't

I think in the Old Testament the only passage somewhat against polygamy is:

Deuteronomy 17:16-17

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the Lord has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.​

Here God had an opportunity to discourage polygamy, but he just said that kings can't have many wives. And the penalty for this is his heart will be led astray. If God was against polygamy, why didn't he use this opportunity to speak against it? So this is just about kings, and it seems that a couple of wives (not many) is ok.

Examples of polygamy in the Old Testament: (consider how widespread it was)

Polygamists in the Bible -- Directory - Biblical Polygamy . com
The * means it is implied
Abdon* Abijah Abraham Ahab Ahasuerus Ashur Belshazzar Benhadad Caleb David Eliphaz Elkanah Esau Ezra Gideon Heman* Hosea* Ibzan* Issachar** Jacob Jair* Jehoiachin Jehoram Jerahmeel Joash Lamech Machir Manasseh Mered Moses Nahor Rehoboam Saul Shaharaim Shimei* Simeon Solomon Terah* Zedekiah Ziba*

​

In the case of Solomon he had about 700 wives and 300 concubines.

coffee4u says that Adam and Eve implies (or proves) that God wanted there to be one man for one woman for life. The woman was made out of a rib of a man. I think that implies that a man could have multiple wives since he has multiple ribs to spare.

As far as I know there are no examples of polygamy in the New Testament. I think the reason for this is their Greek and Roman culture, not because God changed the rules.

There is an advantage of a man having many wives vs a woman with many husbands. In the first case it is obvious who the parents are of the children. If a woman has many husbands it isn't clear who the father is.

BTW there are also animals who have a "harem" (or pride) like lions.

Deuteronomy 17:16-17 also says "He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold". Solomon is also guilty of this... 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13 say "The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents" - apparently that's about 22 tons of gold....

Both David and Solomon seem to be quite close to God since they wrote books that were included in the Bible. Though the Deuteronomy passage did come true... 1 Kings 11:3 says the wives did lead him astray.... (I was impressed that the 700 wives did have royal birth)

Using only the Old Testament is it possible to make the case that God is clearly against a man having more than one wife at once? Why are there dozens of examples of polygamy?

In the New Testament are there (apparently) no examples of polygamy because of the Greek and Roman culture or because Christians received a message from God against polygamy? (that Jesus mentions indirectly)

There is nothing in either the old testament or the new testament that prohibits polygamy. It existed at the advent of Christianity but was eventually prohibited by the Church.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Many of the main figures in the OT had multiple wives (and/or concubines) including people who were close to God like David.... perhaps it was not recommended because it meant less women to go around.... (though I don't think the OT uses that reasoning)

Yes and if you pay attention the rivalry and relationships between the wives, and the wives vs. the concubines is actually a source for much of the drama in Genesis and sometimes Chronicles. e.g. Sarah and Hagar rivalry culminating in Midianite conflict and later Arab Israeli conflict, Joseph receiving favored treatment from being Rachel's son, the drama in the court of David over Tamar rape (and later bitterness of Absalom), and the conflict of the succession between Adonijah and Solomon.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This thread is based on some of my posts in the thread:
Morality is objective, except when it isn't

I think in the Old Testament the only passage somewhat against polygamy is:

Deuteronomy 17:16-17

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the Lord has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.​

Here God had an opportunity to discourage polygamy, but he just said that kings can't have many wives. And the penalty for this is his heart will be led astray. If God was against polygamy, why didn't he use this opportunity to speak against it? So this is just about kings, and it seems that a couple of wives (not many) is ok.

Examples of polygamy in the Old Testament: (consider how widespread it was)

Polygamists in the Bible -- Directory - Biblical Polygamy . com
The * means it is implied
Abdon* Abijah Abraham Ahab Ahasuerus Ashur Belshazzar Benhadad Caleb David Eliphaz Elkanah Esau Ezra Gideon Heman* Hosea* Ibzan* Issachar** Jacob Jair* Jehoiachin Jehoram Jerahmeel Joash Lamech Machir Manasseh Mered Moses Nahor Rehoboam Saul Shaharaim Shimei* Simeon Solomon Terah* Zedekiah Ziba*

​

In the case of Solomon he had about 700 wives and 300 concubines.

coffee4u says that Adam and Eve implies (or proves) that God wanted there to be one man for one woman for life. The woman was made out of a rib of a man. I think that implies that a man could have multiple wives since he has multiple ribs to spare.

As far as I know there are no examples of polygamy in the New Testament. I think the reason for this is their Greek and Roman culture, not because God changed the rules.

There is an advantage of a man having many wives vs a woman with many husbands. In the first case it is obvious who the parents are of the children. If a woman has many husbands it isn't clear who the father is.

BTW there are also animals who have a "harem" (or pride) like lions.

Deuteronomy 17:16-17 also says "He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold". Solomon is also guilty of this... 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13 say "The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents" - apparently that's about 22 tons of gold.... it also says Solomon had 12,000 horses ("must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself")

Both David and Solomon seem to be quite close to God since they wrote books that were included in the Bible. Though the Deuteronomy passage did come true... 1 Kings 11:3 says the wives did lead him astray.... (I was impressed that the 700 wives did have royal birth)

Using only the Old Testament is it possible to make the case that God is clearly against a man having more than one wife at once? Why are there dozens of examples of polygamy?

In the New Testament are there (apparently) no examples of polygamy because of the Greek and Roman culture or because Christians received a message from God against polygamy? (that Jesus mentions indirectly)

Actually, Solomon did not merely have 700 wives and 300 concubines ...

 

[Kenny'sID]

If God was against polygamy, why didn't he use this opportunity to speak against it?

At the time, he wasnt against it that I know of. But the NT states we are to have only one wife....simple.

Why is this even a thing?

 

[Sketcher]

Many of the main figures in the OT had multiple wives (and/or concubines) including people who were close to God like David.... perhaps it was not recommended because it meant less women to go around.... (though I don't think the OT uses that reasoning)

I'd assume that was based on the surrounding cultures rather than being based on the OT alone...

I'd encourage you to read some rabbis' opinions on it.

This problem would also be the case before he married his first wife.

Since I'm a single Christian man, believe me I'm living the difficulties. Personally, I believe that since a single man doesn't have a wife to be unfaithful to either in thought or in deed, he can look at and pursue a single lady and it won't be "fornication". If the lady is taken and the man knows it, then that is knowing disrespect for the relationship she is in, and that would be "adultery". If a man is married and is looking at other women, he is being unfaithful to his wife in his heart, and that is "adultery." I also believe it is best to build good habits in this area rather than bad ones for those of us who are single. I don't believe that this excuses pornography or lusting after strippers or prostitutes for single men. I believe this is faithful to what Jesus preached in Matthew 5. I don't believe he had the intention of leading people to believe that Christian men couldn't do anything to get married.

Do you think Christians were against polygamy because of these sayings of Jesus or because of the Greek and Roman laws?

I believe it's because of the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. The early Christians had no small amount of contempt for various Roman customs, whether they were religious customs or not.

BTW David did look at Bathsheba with lust but I think God was mainly against him having her husband killed....

She was also married to another man, that part is very important. Even in OT times where polygamy was practiced (and that story seemed to take place when it was at its height), that was plainly wrong because she was another man's wife. If she had been single, there's a good chance that there would have been no controversy.

Also NT teaching almost also makes no room for divorce... but Christians often ignore that.

Most unfortunate. I wonder when we're going to rip that band-aid off and do true, corporate repentance for that.

But was this because of Greek and Roman laws? If God was against this why didn't he make it clear in the Old Testament?

No, it was because of the teachings of Jesus. Like divorce, I believe that this loophole was made in the Law because of the hardness of the people's hearts (Matthew 19:7-8). While there was polygamy in Genesis before the Law was given, it's not spoken of positively. Abraham's polygamy was because of his lack of faith. Jacob's polygamy was because of deceit. Lamech's polygamy was because he killed a man and took his wife. While we don't have details of Lamech's marraiges, the polygamy of Abraham and Jacob resulted in strife and more sins being committed.

 

[JohnClay]

.....I believe it's because of the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. The early Christians had no small amount of contempt for various Roman customs, whether they were religious customs or not.

So you're claiming that just before Jesus apparently taught against polygamy that polygamy was as widespread as it was in the OT? That the reason that polygamy stopped was because of Jesus rather than the Greek and Roman culture? You're saying that Jesus' teachings about lust and divorce were used as a reason to eliminate polygamy?

.....Like divorce, I believe that this loophole was made in the Law because of the hardness of the people's hearts (Matthew 19:7-8).

Divorce was clearly taught against in the NT yet Christians often do it. Polygamy is not clearly taught against by Jesus yet Christians usually don't do it.

While there was polygamy in Genesis before the Law was given, it's not spoken of positively. Abraham's polygamy was because of his lack of faith. Jacob's polygamy was because of deceit. Lamech's polygamy was because he killed a man and took his wife. While we don't have details of Lamech's marraiges, the polygamy of Abraham and Jacob resulted in strife and more sins being committed.

Perhaps it is similar to divorce in that it is legal but not recommended?

 

[JohnClay]

Yes and if you pay attention the rivalry and relationships between the wives, and the wives vs. the concubines is actually a source for much of the drama in Genesis and sometimes Chronicles. e.g. Sarah and Hagar rivalry culminating in Midianite conflict and later Arab Israeli conflict, Joseph receiving favored treatment from being Rachel's son, the drama in the court of David over Tamar rape (and later bitterness of Absalom), and the conflict of the succession between Adonijah and Solomon.

There are also examples of conflict between brothers (Jacob and Esau, Joseph and his brothers) but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't have multiple children....

Also the only passage I'm aware of that speaks against polygamy (for kings with many wives) says the issue is that "his heart will be led astray".

 

[JohnClay]

At the time, he wasnt against it that I know of. But the NT states we are to have only one wife....simple.

Why is this even a thing?

Well I thought God didn't change so why does he permit polygamy in the OT but not in the NT? (my explanation is that the Greek and Roman culture forced polygamy to stop)

 

[Sketcher]

So you're claiming that just before Jesus apparently taught against polygamy that polygamy was as widespread as it was in the OT? That the reason that polygamy stopped was because of Jesus rather than the Greek and Roman culture? You're saying that Jesus' teachings about lust and divorce were used as a reason to eliminate polygamy?

I am not. I am saying that Jesus taught absolute faithfulness to one's spouse, and that polygamy and most divorces are against that. And that the early church cared more about following Jesus than Roman social institutions.

Divorce was clearly taught against in the NT yet Christians often do it. Polygamy is not clearly taught against by Jesus yet Christians usually don't do it.

It took a long time for the church to convince the pagan kings of Europe that polygamy was a bad thing. I don't want to see it make a revival. It's bad enough that divorce has grown so much in the last 60+ years.

Perhaps it is similar to divorce in that it is legal but not recommended?

Nope. Divorce is clearly taught against, so it can't be considered "legal but not recommended".

 

[JohnClay]

I am not. I am saying that Jesus taught absolute faithfulness to one's spouse, and that polygamy and most divorces are against that.

I thought if someone had multiple children then they can love them all.... also why did Deuteronomy 17:16-17 only specify kings having many wives and that the only problem it identifies is that they'd be lead astray?

Nope. Divorce is clearly taught against, so it can't be considered "legal but not recommended".

Earlier you said "The Jewish view from what I've read is that polygamy was legal but not recommended"... so is divorce even less acceptable than polygamy?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

There are also examples of conflict between brothers (Jacob and Esau, Joseph and his brothers) but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't have multiple children....

Also the only passage I'm aware of that speaks against polygamy (for kings with many wives) says the issue is that "his heart will be led astray".

The Garden of Eden shows God's intention for humanity. It is Adam and Eve. We do not see polygamy till after the Fall. It has always been framed as an allowance and not an ideal. It was part of the near east cultural backdrop and was adopted like many things from that culture.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This thread is based on some of my posts in the thread:
Morality is objective, except when it isn't

I think in the Old Testament the only passage somewhat against polygamy is:

Deuteronomy 17:16-17

The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the Lord has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.​

Here God had an opportunity to discourage polygamy, but he just said that kings can't have many wives. And the penalty for this is his heart will be led astray. If God was against polygamy, why didn't he use this opportunity to speak against it? So this is just about kings, and it seems that a couple of wives (not many) is ok.

Examples of polygamy in the Old Testament: (consider how widespread it was)

Polygamists in the Bible -- Directory - Biblical Polygamy . com
The * means it is implied
Abdon* Abijah Abraham Ahab Ahasuerus Ashur Belshazzar Benhadad Caleb David Eliphaz Elkanah Esau Ezra Gideon Heman* Hosea* Ibzan* Issachar** Jacob Jair* Jehoiachin Jehoram Jerahmeel Joash Lamech Machir Manasseh Mered Moses Nahor Rehoboam Saul Shaharaim Shimei* Simeon Solomon Terah* Zedekiah Ziba*

​

In the case of Solomon he had about 700 wives and 300 concubines.

coffee4u says that Adam and Eve implies (or proves) that God wanted there to be one man for one woman for life. The woman was made out of a rib of a man. I think that implies that a man could have multiple wives since he has multiple ribs to spare.

As far as I know there are no examples of polygamy in the New Testament. I think the reason for this is their Greek and Roman culture, not because God changed the rules.

There is an advantage of a man having many wives vs a woman with many husbands. In the first case it is obvious who the parents are of the children. If a woman has many husbands it isn't clear who the father is.

BTW there are also animals who have a "harem" (or pride) like lions.

Deuteronomy 17:16-17 also says "He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold". Solomon is also guilty of this... 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13 say "The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents" - apparently that's about 22 tons of gold.... it also says Solomon had 12,000 horses ("must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself")

Both David and Solomon seem to be quite close to God since they wrote books that were included in the Bible. Though the Deuteronomy passage did come true... 1 Kings 11:3 says the wives did lead him astray.... (I was impressed that the 700 wives did have royal birth)

Using only the Old Testament is it possible to make the case that God is clearly against a man having more than one wife at once? Why are there dozens of examples of polygamy?

In the New Testament are there (apparently) no examples of polygamy because of the Greek and Roman culture or because Christians received a message from God against polygamy? (that Jesus mentions indirectly)

I'd think that if we were really going to vet out this issue, we'd start at the beginning of the bible. There we see that God made one woman for one man. Full stop.

...Going on from there and taking in all that unfolds from that narrative, I'm guessing too that there is a reason we find the first example of polygamy in the Bible within the line of Cain....

What might that imply? Who influences whom in the narrative? (And we have to ask this because the O.T. writings are full of intertextual allusions that are meant to not just come right out and punch us in the face with 'obvious' lessons. Of course, I get that this is precisely what we all hanker for today--'obvious lessons.')

 

[Sketcher]

I thought if someone had multiple children then they can love them all.... also why did Deuteronomy 17:16-17 only specify kings having many wives and that the only problem it identifies is that they'd be lead astray?

That wasn't about polygamy so much as it was about kings. The same verse that says the king is not to have many wives also says that he must not amass silver or gold. He was to avoid excess women, and excess wealth.

Earlier you said "The Jewish view from what I've read is that polygamy was legal but not recommended"... so is divorce even less acceptable than polygamy?

For the Christian, neither is acceptable.

 

[JohnClay]

That wasn't about polygamy so much as it was about kings. The same verse that says the king is not to have many wives also says that he must not amass silver or gold. He was to avoid excess women, and excess wealth...

It also was against kings having too many horses and Solomon also had 12,000 horses...

 

[JohnClay]

The Garden of Eden shows God's intention for humanity. It is Adam and Eve. We do not see polygamy till after the Fall. It has always been framed as an allowance and not an ideal.

Perhaps like eating meat?

It was part of the near east cultural backdrop and was adopted like many things from that culture.

And God didn't seem to speak against having more than one wife at a time in the OT.

 

[Sketcher]

It also was against kings having too many horses and Solomon also had 12,000 horses...

Yes, Solomon was a king of excesses.

 

[JohnClay]

...Going on from there and taking in all that unfolds from that narrative, I'm guessing too that there is a reason we find the first example of polygamy in the Bible within the line of Cain....

But Cain himself didn't do it. And many of the dozens of examples in the OT included Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, etc.