Poll regarding the name of this forum

[DW1980]

I have a similar issue (just noticed the poll today as well). Theologically I am actually more conservative, evangelical charismatic. However, in line with that approach to Scripture, there are views I have that most would call liberal - my main one being that I am gay, and I have no problem with same-sex marriage (I am actually engaged to a man). I now believe that it's fine, and I firmly ground that in the Bible (for years I didn't). So where do I fit in? Do we really mean whosoever will may come? Am I included in whosoever? Do I "fit in" here?

The word "liberal" is too vague, as others have said, do we mean our approach to faith and the Bible (in which case I am not!) or do we mean what we believe the Bible says (which sometimes looks liberal in my case)? It's also about how others view it - I know lots of liberal Christians now, but used to think that they were people who disregarded the Bible (don't worry, now I know better!).

I'll be honest, I struggle at times with CF and frequently take breaks from it because of some of the rules in place. It can be so restrictive. CF has a "non promotion of homosexuality" rule, to the extent that, taken literally, I am not free to discuss how I understand the Bible. If there were one forum where this could be discussed from a theological and pastoral viewpoint, I think that would help so many people - not just people like me looking to fit in, but people who are struggling with who they are, families of gay people etc. But CF has effectively shut down what is a legitimate conversation that's happening in Churches all over the world, but not allowed here. I struggle with that, and wonder what it is that some people are so afraid of discussing? Why are some afraid of prayerfully studying the Bible and seeking God's will on this issue?

This forum seemed to be the one that would be most accepting of me as both a gay man, and a committed follower of Jesus, and that is why I joined in. If I have that right, I'd like to see a name that reflects that all are welcome.

 

[hedrick]

This forum has a special definition of promotion that matches the normal usage: you can't advise people to become gay (not that anyone I know would do so), but you can defend it as acceptable. The Methodist and ELCA (I think) forums also allow that.

 

[PloverWing]

This forum has a special definition of promotion that matches the normal usage: you can't advise people to become gay (not that anyone I know would do so), but you can defend it as acceptable. The Methodist and ELCA (I think) forums also allow that.

Is that what the rule is? I understood "promotion" to be posting the belief that it's acceptable to be gay -- so, for example, if I encouraged a gay person to go ahead and marry their same-sex partner and live a happy life together, that would be "promotion".

Is there some authoritative definition of "promotion" on CF that I can look at? I'd love to talk about LGBT issues in the church in a positive way -- especially how best to encourage young gay Christians in their faith journeys and in their marriages -- but I thought it was against the rules, even in WWMC.

 

[hedrick]

Is that what the rule is? I understood "promotion" to be posting the belief that it's acceptable to be gay -- so, for example, if I encouraged a gay person to go ahead and marry their same-sex partner and live a happy life together, that would be "promotion".

In most of CF, saying it's OK to be gay is considered promotion. In this group, it's not, but encouraging someone to marry a same-sex partner probably would be considered promotion.

The specific rule for this forum is here: Statement of Purpose - Whosoever Will, May Come - Statement of Purpose. The general rule is here: Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums. You need to read them carefully to see the difference. But giving arguments for the acceptance of homosexuality is permitted here but not in other groups.

 

[PloverWing]

Thanks for the pointers to the two statements. I see in the WWMC statement that "Members may not encourage another member to practice homosexuality or enter into a same sex marriage", so that's going to exclude some of the discussions I would like to have. I'm understanding "practice homosexuality" here to mean having same-sex romantic relationships; as you say, it's silly to talk about persuading somebody to become gay, in the sense of changing their orientation. It sounds like we can discuss homosexuality in the abstract, but we can't give personal, practical encouragement for CF members in same-sex relationships.

 

[hedrick]

Thanks for the pointers to the two statements. I see in the WWMC statement that "Members may not encourage another member to practice homosexuality or enter into a same sex marriage", so that's going to exclude some of the discussions I would like to have. I'm understanding "practice homosexuality" here to mean having same-sex romantic relationships; as you say, it's silly to talk about persuading somebody to become gay, in the sense of changing their orientation. It sounds like we can discuss homosexuality in the abstract, but we can't give personal, practical encouragement for CF members in same-sex relationships.

I’d say we can support gay Christians and people in gay marriages. We can’t advocate that someone become gay or marry someone of the same gender. But I’m not a moderator so it’s hard to be certain.

 

[DW1980]

I’d say we can support gay Christians and people in gay marriages. We can’t advocate that someone become gay or marry someone of the same gender. But I’m not a moderator so it’s hard to be certain.

That's where part of this makes no sense - people are not "persuaded" to become gay. It isn't a choice. And that's the rub with the forum name - many of the people who struggle with this will come from conservative traditions, so why would they come here? The site rules don't highlight "except for WWMC" for example. The very people that need to have this conversation have nowhere obvious to go on CF.

 

[PloverWing]

I think the forum name is appropriate, in that the forum is designed for liberal Christians; it's just a side effect that many liberal Christians accept LGBT Christians as our full brothers and sisters in Christ, so WWMC becomes a friendly forum for discussing LGBT issues.

Ideally, I'd like to see a forum designed for LGBT+allies in CF. It would be an isolated place in CF where the rules are relaxed, and LGBT issues could be discussed in positive (not merely neutral) ways, including encouragement and advice for LGBT Christians on CF. Maybe you'd have to apply to the moderators to participate in the group, or set a special option in your profile, or something, just so people don't stumble into it without knowing what it is. But it could be a place for Questioning people to go, as well as gay people seeking marriage advice and so on.

 

[DW1980]

I think the forum name is appropriate, in that the forum is designed for liberal Christians; it's just a side effect that many liberal Christians accept LGBT Christians as our full brothers and sisters in Christ, so WWMC becomes a friendly forum for discussing LGBT issues.

Ideally, I'd like to see a forum designed for LGBT+allies in CF. It would be an isolated place in CF where the rules are relaxed, and LGBT issues could be discussed in positive (not merely neutral) ways, including encouragement and advice for LGBT Christians on CF. Maybe you'd have to apply to the moderators to participate in the group, or set a special option in your profile, or something, just so people don't stumble into it without knowing what it is. But it could be a place for Questioning people to go, as well as gay people seeking marriage advice and so on.

Yes, I agree - that would be brilliant

 

[Mustaphile]

I was two years too late for this poll, but I'm glad the name was the same, because I knew where to go after such a long absence.