Poll: Rape and Abortion - The Catholic Viewpoint

[VOW]

To NYJ:

If it were MY CHILD, I would listen to what a high-risk obstetrician would have to say. When my daughter was nine years old, I don't know if she would have been capable of carrying a baby to term. I don't know if she would have SURVIVED to carry a baby to term. My daughter is indescribably precious to me, and if it were the honest, educated opinion of the OB/GYN that her life would be at risk, I would have a very difficult time saying, "Yes, let her pregnancy continue." Because the fact is, if HER life would be at risk, the baby's survival would be dismal.

I'd get help for the whole family.

And I confess, I'd be stressed to the max, because my husband would be in jail for murder. Because I have no doubt whatsoever that he would have immediately set out to kill the monster who hurt his child.

And I would NOT be able to do anything about THAT.

With my blood pressure and depression problems, I'd probably end up in the hospital myself.

EVERYTHING would have to be considered, NYJ. We don't exist in a vacuum.



Peace,
~VOW

 

[jukesk9]

Hey, so, uh, did anyone happen to catch the Dodgers-Cardinals four game series that they split 2-2? I'm thinking maybe a preview of the NLCS....

If it was my daughter, I'd consult my priest, of course, and listen to what the doctors would say about the health of my daughter.  The baby is innocent and had nothing to do with the horrendous act that led to conception. I'd get the best counseling money could buy for my daughter and we'd have that baby together, if at no health risk to my daughter, who comes before the unborn child. Ultimately, we'd put it up for adoption. I'd try like hell to help my daughter forget about the whole experience. I pray that none of us ever have to be confronted with something like this.

So, who's looking forward to the All Star game tomorrow night? I hope Barry Bonds CHOKES in the second half of the season.

 

[VOW]

Thank you, Jukes.


~VOW

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by VOW
If it were MY CHILD, I would listen to what a high-risk obstetrician would have to say.

I'd listen to what the Church has to say on the issue first. Like jukesk9, the first person I consulted would be a priest. As a matter of fact, this sounds like the perfect question for Rev. Joe Horn (not to mention a couple of blog entries by yours truly).

You keep talking about "full term", but I keep telling you that it need not be "full term", that if the health risks and threats mount to the child, a premature birth is a viable option.

No one said it would be easy, it would certainly be a stressful situation, but if we stop thinking about ourselves, and focus on that innocent life, the one that never asked to be born of a product of violence, perhaps that would better allow us to put things in perspective, maybe not much, but enough to realize that that child does deserve a chance at life.

Doesn't Psalm 139:13 For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb. apply to that child just as it does for all others?

If I were (God forbid) placed in this situation, I would sit down with the doctors (after meeting with a priest) and I ask them how complicated this pregnancy looks.

Can it go full-term? Yes? Ok. We go full-term if no complications arise and then put the newborn child up for adoption. No, it cannot go full-term? How long can it go? Can we at least get it to a stage where it has some shot at survival (20 to 16 weeks premature)? Yes, ok... let us go that route. No, not even that is possible? Ok, well we'll try to take it as far as we possibly can, have the child delivered and pray about it. Let the medicine do its work and Gods will be done.

I just don't see it playing out any other way.

 

[Stormy]

Please forgive me. I have deleted my post. I had not realized that I was posting in the Catholic Forum. I have no right to impose myself upon your beliefs.

Sorry

 

[nyj]

Is this as really as hard and complicated an issue (at least on a moral level) as we think it is?

This past weekend, part of the Gospel reading read as follows:

Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. - Matthew 11:29-30

A yoke is something you put on an animal. It spreads out the weight of whatever is being carried or dragged to make it as comfortable and as easy as possible for the one doing the work. A yoke is also used for steering purposes.

Jesus is, in my mind, telling us that we need to allow Him to fit us with a yoke and that once this yoke is on, we simply need to walk ahead and He will guide us. As Christians, we believe in an absolute morality, which means that things have a Yes/No answer, they are not muddied like they are in the atheist world where what is good for one is objectionable to another. To know our absolutes and where our morals come from, we turn to the Bible and see what God has said to us. In all situations, God has said that children are a gift, and that from conception He is aware of us and is forming us. To God, life is sacred.

It is objective morals that have led us to abortion in the first place. That is why, with a clear conscience, I can say that abortion, under all circumstances, is wrong. There is no situation that a Christian cannot face that would force them from the straight and narrow path if they allow Jesus to maintain that yoke upon them. They may suffer physically and emotionally, but their conscience would be clear and spiritually they would be unharmed.

You cannot commit an evil act (abortion) to undo or correct a prior evil (rape). From our infancy that golden rule "Two wrongs do not make a right" has been instilled in us, why would we reject it now?

Things become complicated, scenarios become complex and the issue becomes a shade of grey when we start to consider our feelings, our stress, our needs. When these things become primary, and God's will becomes secondary... Yes, things get complicated.

God is not complex though, He does not send mixed signals and His Church has been unerring on this issue from day one. Yes, it would be hard emotionally, yes, I would love to feed the rapist his own genitals, but I could not live with a clear conscience knowing I committed a mortal sin.

 

[VOW]

To NYJ:

Yanno, I rather resent the way you posted this, after duking it out in another forum, and you seem to be looking for more of a fight.

I told you what my FIRST concern would be: my husband in jail. I'm as serious as a heart attack on that one, NYJ. Several years ago, we had a renter who turned out to be an ex-con, and he made several threats against our family. My husband's response? He hightailed it to the police department and got a concealed weapons permit.

You are asking me to be RATIONAL here? I've got a raped child, a husband behind bars, and you want me to make sense?

Go count the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.



Peace,
~VOW

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by VOW
Yanno, I rather resent the way you posted this, after duking it out in another forum, and you seem to be looking for more of a fight.

No, I came here hoping to find someone to agree with me because on the other forum everyone seemed to think that abortion in this instance was justifiable, contrary to having any Biblical support for that position whatsoever. Fortunately 7 people agree with me, which means I'm not the last sane person in this world.

Originally posted by VOW
You are asking me to be RATIONAL here? I've got a raped child, a husband behind bars, and you want me to make sense?

Yes Vow, as strange as it may seem, I was asking for a reasonable, rational answer to a hard question. Just because life gets rough doesn't mean that we can suddenly turn off the morality and go for broke. This why we have martyr's for the faith, because despite the stress of life and the temptations to reject it, they stick to their convictions, they stick to God and they pay the ultimate price. Now, not everyone is called to be a martyr, but Jesus also said leading a life worthy of Him would not always be a walk through the garden, smelling all the pretty roses.

Originally posted by VOW
Go count the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

I'll leave that up to better theologians than I.

Originally posted by VOW
Peace,

Given your last comment I doubt you mean it. That's the trouble with signatures.

 

[VOW]

To NYJ:

Given your last comment I doubt you mean it. That's the trouble with signatures.

Now how in the WORLD would you know?

And I sure don't need a lecture on the rocky parts of life. If you are going to open up a can of worms, then at least be DECENT enough to allow others to express an opinion.

~VOW

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by VOW

Now how in the WORLD would you know?

That's why I said "I doubt you mean it." as opposed to saying "You don't mean it."

Originally posted by VOW
If you are going to open up a can of worms, then at least be DECENT enough to allow others to express an opinion.

Haven't I allowed you to express your opinion? Who said I had to agree with it though?

 

[VOW]

Oh, you accused me of being a horrible Catholic, with Hitler ideas of euthanasia.

And I was giving you my opinion, based on MY personal experience with problem pregnancies AND a premature infant.


I also gave documented information about prematurity, instead of pie-in-the-sky statements that prematurity isn't a problem any more.

How old are your kids, anyway?


~VOW

 

[Annabel Lee]

Yes Vow, as strange as it may seem, I was asking for a reasonable, rational answer to a hard question. Just because life gets rough doesn't mean that we can suddenly turn off the morality and go for broke.

And you did get a reasonable, rational answer to a hard question from Vow. Both of your responses were rational and well-thought out.

Just because life gets rough doesn't mean that we can suddenly turn off the morality and go for broke. This why we have martyr's for the faith, because despite the stress of life and the temptations to reject it, they stick to their convictions, they stick to God and they pay the ultimate price.

My 9 year old rape victim child is going to be a martyr for the Faith? She is going to pay the ultimate price?? I don't think so!
I just pray to God that that is not a decision I'll ever have to make.

 

[ZiSunka]

How many 9 year old rape victims get pregnant? We're talking extremely hypothetical, maybe one in 50 million rapes?

Why duke it out about something so farfetched, when the real issue is whether or not someone should seek an abortion just because they don't want the baby, regardless of the circumstances of abortion.

This silly example just shows me that you all just want to fight, not to discuss an important issue in a rational, Christ-centered way.

 

[Annabel Lee]

I'm closing the thread down for a while. It will be re-opened later.

 

[KC Catholic]

Reopening so that NYJ can add some additional comments.

Let's all keep this friendly ~ ok, guys?

 

[seebs]

I'd just like to point out that I *REALLY* hope I never have to answer that question.

I think the answer would probably be "that would be up to the kid". On the one hand, I'd like to think that any child of mine would recognize the relative blamelessness of the baby; on the other hand, I don't think I'd want my kid forced to live with nine months of fairly immediate reminders of something that awful.

 

[LilyLamb]

I would like to think that I would have my child carry the baby as long as possible for it to survive and then have them do a c-section ... but I honestly don't know what I would do unless I was faced with this situation ...... I pray that I never will have to personally address this ................

 

What did the family do in this situation - or was it hypothetical???

 

 

 

 

[HisLamb]

I don't have a daughter...I have a son.  But I have three beautiful granddaughters, one who turned 9 last month.  I read this, then went away and thought about the question for quite some time.  I have to say, no, if she were my daughter, I would not get her an abortion.  I would love her even more, give support and get support from medical doctors and psycological doctors.  It would be a horrible thing, and I hope no one ever has to face this.

I feel that in the end, I would have to say, "Thy Will be done."  I've never been through anything like this, but I have been through some horrible things in my life, and without trust in God, I doubt I'd be here.  He may not make things all better, but He does give us the strength to get through whatever life deals us. 

 

[Auntie]

Originally posted by LilyLamb

What did the family do in this situation - or was it hypothetical???

The story is a real and true story. I heard the story a few months ago on my local TV news station in Dothan, Alabama. The news report said that a man was arrested and charged with raping his 9 year old granddaughter, and that the rape resulted in the child becoming pregnant.

Although I remembered this crime took place in the State of Alabama, I couldn't remember which county it happened in. So I recently called the TV station and asked in which county did this happen, and I was told it happened in Houston County Alabama.

Because the child is a minor, no reports are available as to what happened to her. So I don't have any way of knowing if she survived the pregnancy, or had an abortion, or whatever happened to her.

Child sex abuse is extremely common in this world, and more often than not, the perpetrator is a family member. None of us should be surprised that child sex abuse sometimes results in pregnancy of the child, as sad as that fact is.

I am also hearing that girls are going into puberty at much younger ages now than in years past. I don't know if this is true or not, but if this is true, then I suspect that more 9 year olds might be facing pregnancy than any of us are aware of. And because of privacy factors, it's very difficult to get any information about this.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Poor girl.