Poll on whether to allow full discussion of homosexuality in TLT, part deux

Well, I am not sure if I can vote in the poll or not. I am not Catholic but I am liberal, and I did help revive this forum with Paul and Marty back in April.

If I am allowed to vote, then my vote is yes.

voices that carry said:

Well, I am not sure if I can vote in the poll or not. I am not Catholic but I am liberal, and I did help revive this forum with Paul and Marty back in April.

If I am allowed to vote, then my vote is yes.

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If it were up to me, I would say yes. You were a key to reviving this forum and have been a great contributor since. To deny you a voice in this would be like saying we don't want you in "our" Church. But I don't make the rules. It was good of you to ask before voting, so you may want to wait for a response from our Admin.

We have a couple of weeks to vote, and I am not voting until I understand what I am voting for or against. Patience is a virtue.

I voted before I read the OP about the rules for who can vote. Sorry about that! I've posted here before just when I see something that interests me but I'm not Catholic. Idk how to undo the vote but I guess it can be ignored?

voices that carry said:

Well, I am not sure if I can vote in the poll or not. I am not Catholic but I am liberal, and I did help revive this forum with Paul and Marty back in April.

If I am allowed to vote, then my vote is yes.

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According to the rules as they stand you're not able to.

.... basically, you have to be a Catholic in Union with Pope Francis (no schismatic groups) and you need to self identify as theologically liberal.

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Since I don't identify as theologically liberal (whatever that is) I'm not allowed to vote either.

I'm theologically illiterate. Does that disqualify me?

bettercallpaul said:

I'm theologically illiterate. Does that disqualify me?

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That makes you an Apostle.

Time for me to come out of the closet. I've been in there too long. It's an opportune time to make this announcement. I cant care what people think of me anymore. Call me a radical liberal I don't care. It's high time I got this off my chest. I'm I'm I'm, I I I......
I watch repeats of the nineties show "Friends."
OK, there it is. you know now. Oh that is such a relief to get that one out of the closet.
Can we discuss old "Friends" episodes as long as we don't promote them? Jennifer Aniston is over the hill now . I don't think she was good enough for Brad Pitt anyway.

I don't believe I am liberal either. But I too came in when Paul came in and was there posting at that time. However, I am not too sure now if I should be here. I don't mind discussions of liberal thinking. I am just not lubral. Myself .

anjelica said:

I don't believe I am liberal either. But I too came in when Paul came in and was there posting at that time. However, I am not too sure now if I should be here. I don't mind discussions of liberal thinking. I am just not lubral. Myself .

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You should be here , Anjelica , because you share the ethos of those who post at The Lord's Table .

Looking throughout the thread I see a common dislike from many of the regular posters of terms like "liberal" , "liberalism" , and many , like me , don't know what these labels mean , and they are just labels .

The staff of CF have done no justice to Catholicism in using labels like "Traditional" and "Liberal" to denote the subforums .

Instead of bothering about whether homosexuality should be discussed , they ought to direct their efforts to renaming the subforums , and getting rid of silly labels which are divisive , misleading , inaccurate , insulting etc .

Tallguy88 said:

This is the new poll that was requested, since TLT wasn't very active last time.

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Prior to this OP who has requested this poll ?

Colin said:

Prior to this OP who has requested this poll ?

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I did. I feel like because the forum wasn't active when all the congegational areas voted on similar polls, we never really got a chance to do this as a community.

I don't want to rehash what I posted earlier in the thread, but I didn't want anyone else to have to unfairly take the heat for this if anyone is upset, so I wanted to make sure I stepped in and ackowledged that I did ask for this revote behind the scenes (Way back in May, actually, originally), and people were kind enough to set the process in motion for me.

I think this is potentially a good opportunity to be an even more inclusive diverse forum. There are three or four Catholic forums on the site and as far as I know this would be the only one where people could be honest about being on a side of this issue that other forums don't allow discussion of. This is I really feel very relevant to being Catholic "in our times", as Saint John XXIII might put it (The quoted three words are from the Second Vatican Council, which Pope John convened).

At the same time, this isn't about having this issue take over the forum. No one wants that. Its just I think an extension of our general atitudes and fellowship to be welcoming and allow people to be themselves in a way they may feel they can't always be elsewhere because discussion is not allowed or must concur with conservative interpretation of doctrine that many now feel the church is beginning to evolve beyond. Its not an attempt to say everyone has to think "x", but to allow people to take a liberal position in a liberal forum when the subject comes up, which I think will be rarely.

Someone asked why this topic and not others, and the answer is because all the other forums voted on this in 2015, and there was clear precedent for at least getting this poll. I probably would have started with some other things like inviting self-identified progresive Anglo-Catholic Episcopalians and Anglicans who specifically believe in Apostolic Succession, 7 sacraments, the veneration of Saints, and so on to participate as full members here (Not all Anglicans, the ones from the Anglo-Catholic movement Cardinal Newman started who really share the Catholic practices and progressive values of a Liberal Catholic forum). We had a broad consensus in favor of that at one point, I think, and it would have been a logical starting point towards maybe doing some more polls and defining ourselves and growing as a community before jumping straight to this, but I was told that specific idea did not fit the top brass' vision for this forum and probably would not get a vote, that we could not expand our full voting and debating membership in that direction officially (Though I hope at least folks like that would be welcome here unoffically, and I know they are always welcome in fellowship per the rules). So I focused on asking for the vote we could get.

And I do think this vote is important. I like the fellowship and friendlines vibe we have going, but I would like in the long run to really have this be a safe haven for liberals who have no place to rest their heads, not to the exclusion of others, but just to give us what we don't have in other forums. I'm not interested in just being like OBOB with less arguments, though I do like that we have less conflict and more spirituality and love, I also want it to be a place where we don't have to fear being censored or given the boot for standing up for the marginalized every once in a while if that is what our hearts tell us is right. Obviously, its not an attempt to have everyone adopt my more liberal views or whatever, its a vote not to ban them.

Like I said, there are other votes I would have taken first, but this was what i could get and I hope folks will prayfully consider voting "yes". I really have put a lot of effort into making this hapoen, and we need 2/3s to approve it, so its not going to be an easy hurdle to climb and I am hoping the last four months of working to get this won't be a waste in retrospect.

I'd like to do more, especially the Anglo-Catholic thing, but this what we have, and its better than nothing if it goes the way I hope it will.

You've got your two-thirds and then some, at the moment, F&B.

Just a thought, on your Anglo-Catholic thing etc (and I say this being very clear that I'm not exactly the kind of Anglican you're talking about, although I think I'm probably the only one regularly popping in to TLT)... mostly those Anglo-Catholics who are liberal/progressive/"insert label here" have a place to lay their heads. I wonder whether you might do as well or better to look eastwards and think about how to invite Orthodox and Oriental Christians with that kind of leaning, who often I think have less scope within their own traditions than Anglicans do.

Just a thought?

Fish and Bread said:

I'm not interested in just being like OBOB with less arguments

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How about it not being like OBOB and with less arguments.

Well - though I read here and occasionally post - I can't vote because there is no way that I could be called a liberal Catholic [ whatever that actually is - 'cos sure as eggs is eggs I don't know ]

I kept looking up different difinitions of the word"liberal" but it did not help much. Personally I do not want to be labelled in any way except a follower of Zchrist who tries to luve loving others WHOEVER they are. And whatever theirnorientation.

Right. Am I allowed to vote? I would not label myself luberal, but I welcome ALL debate and discussion. And yes, I too would like to feel there is a place formppl to lay their heads who at present have nowhere. I too care about those who are marginalised for WHATEVER reason. And there can be many. And I have experienced this for myself and NOT only because I am disabled and blind, but for other reasons too. Ppl can be very quick to jyfge, and I do not want to do that. There isnonly one Jydge, and we are simply called to live.

So, uf I could vote I would say yes, give ppl a place to be, as long as we ALL can have a place to be, in here.

Sorry that got a bit long.

anjelica said:

I don't believe I am liberal either. But I too came in when Paul came in and was there posting at that time. However, I am not too sure now if I should be here. I don't mind discussions of liberal thinking. I am just not lubral. Myself .

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Of course you belong here. You are our resident "Angel". This forum better not become one where anyone who doesn't hold narrowly defined beliefs can't participate. Had enough of that elsewhere here (I think I have a triple negative in that one sentence; hope it's understandable). Liberal should mean open and welcoming, just as Jesus was.

I offer this one definition of a liberal, not to be argumentative or offensive, but as a means to help describe the term liberal. I agree with this particular definition, which was coined by John F. Kennedy, and it is one of the reasons why I am not bothered by the term and why I do not shy away from it.

“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”

Again, I am not sharing this quote to be argumentative or offensive to anyone here who does not like the term or its use. I only wanted to share this one definition that I agree with and shed some light on what I think it means to be liberal. I also thought it would be okay to share it, since John F. Kennedy was also a Catholic.

Let me be blunt. I do agree that I find dividing Catholicism into labels is odd. But it was not staff who did it, it was members who requested it.

This subforum is here as a liberal Catholic subforum. That was not a term chosen by staff it was a term chosen by the Catholics who made it. When it was brought back it was brought back along those lines. We did not name it, the Catholics who created it named it. It exists because it allows discussion on a wider level of theology that the Church, generally, does not officially support. Examples: Women priests, homosexual activity is alright, development of Dogma beyond the accepted teaching of the Church...ect.

As far as Liberal Catholic theology...Hang Kung, Sr. Joan Chittister and many others are examples of those who express theologies along the lines of what this subforum explores.

This forum, no matter what else people use it for, was set up to explore and discuss the edges of that style of theology while remaining in union with the Church.

This is why it exists.