Poll: Is Hell real?

[VCViking]

PM me. I'll be happy to explain.

In the meantime watch this in its entirety, brother in Christ, and son of the Most High God:

YouTube - The Shocking Youth Message (Paul Washer)

Paul Washer is awesome!

 

[VCViking]

VCViking,

re: "No babies in hell. Read what king David said about his baby that dies as an infant."

I’m not aware of any scripture that says that David’s baby was not in hell. What do you have in mind?

Sorry, here's the passage:

2 Samuel 12:21-23

12:21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.


I shall go to him shows the baby is in heaven.
​

 

[VCViking]

VCViking,
　
re: "Rev. 14:11: "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever..."

This only says that smoke goes up forever.
　

re: "...and they have no rest day and night..."

It doesn’t say for how long.
　

re: "10-And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

This only says that the devil will be tormented for ever.
　

re: "14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Death, not life.
　

I just don’t understand why folks want to believe that the fate of the unsaved is to spend eternity in conscious torment when there is no clear scripture to support that belief. I don’t understand why they try to read into scripture something that makes the loving supreme being of the Bible into a heartless monster. I simply do not understand what there is that makes them want to do that when there is no need to. Why do they want to believe that a loving supreme being will horribly torture a person for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn’t satisfy certain requirements? I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t rather believe that a loving supreme being will wipe the person mercifully out of existence because for some reason they didn’t or couldn’t meet these requirements and didn’t develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being.

That's idolatry. Creating a god to suit your views. You can't just believe in the love of God and not believe in the wrath of God. The bible is full of scriptures that does support the reality of hell and the torment of the wicked.

 

[VCViking]

We have a couple of trolls working in the thread, and the ignore list works wonders. Everything makes sense now.

Those with legitimate questions have been helped.

You are right. I need to stop feeding the trolls!

 

[rstrats]

VCViking,

re: "I shall go to him shows the baby is in heaven."
　
More likely David is saying that he will join his baby in the grave when he dies.

That David did not go to heaven - at least at the time that Acts was written - is attested to by Acts 2:29-34.


Also, John 3:13 says that up to that time no one had ever gone to heaven except the Messiah.

 

[rstrats]

VCViking,

re: "You can't just believe in the love of God and not believe in the wrath of God."

Since a person isn’t inherently immortal, is it possible for God to annihilate the person in the "lake of fire"?
　

re: "The bible is full of scriptures that does support the reality of hell and the torment of the wicked."

You still haven’t shown any scripture that specifically says that anyone - with the possible exception of the devil - will spend eternity in conscious torment.

 

[rstrats]

357magnum,

re: "We have a couple of trolls working in the thread."
　
And a troll would be someone who doesn’t agree with your doctrinal positions?

 

[Hentenza]

VCViking,

re: "I shall go to him shows the baby is in heaven."
　
More likely David is saying that he will join his baby in the grave when he dies.

That David did not go to heaven - at least at the time that Acts was written - is attested to by Acts 2:29-34.


Also, John 3:13 says that up to that time no one had ever gone to heaven except the Messiah.

The context of Acts 2:29-34 is the bodily resurrection of Jesus. It is in this context that David has not yet ascended to Heaven and his body still rests in the grave. His body will be resurrected in the second coming of Christ. David spirit (soul), on the other hand, did ascend to Heaven. Paul is clear when he teaches that being away from the body is being with the Lord. There is no soul sleep. David joined his son in heaven in spirit and awaits the physical resurrection of the body as are the rest of the dead in Christ.

 

[Hentenza]

That quote is a reference to Gehenna. Just because the fire is metaphorically eternal, doesn't mean we suffer eternally.

Neither one of the quotes that I posted are referencing Gehenna but are unfulfilled prophesies of what is yet to come. The term Gehenna does not appear in any one of the quotes nor can they be types of Gehenna but direct references of the ultimate destination of the unbelievers.

And I beg your pardon, but you may not be a Jew, but I am.

Israel nationally is in a state of apostasy by rejecting the messiah. You self identify as messianic which makes you individually a part of the remnant of Israel. Those that reject the messiah are in error. A time will come when national Israel will be delivered but it has not happened yet.

 

[VCViking]

VCViking,

re: "You can't just believe in the love of God and not believe in the wrath of God."

Since a person isn’t inherently immortal, is it possible for God to annihilate the person in the "lake of fire"?
　

re: "The bible is full of scriptures that does support the reality of hell and the torment of the wicked."

You still haven’t shown any scripture that specifically says that anyone - with the possible exception of the devil - will spend eternity in conscious torment.

I've given scriptures but you have twisted them. Get your bible, a concordance, a topical index, etc and research for yourself. Then let us know what you find.

 

[Bick]

I realize this is a conservative Christian site but I would like to take a quick survery with just ONE QUESTION. (I also know there are unbelievers who come to this site and I would like for them to vote also). NO NEED TO COMMENT. JUST YES OR NO. I will start a new thread on the subject when people have had time to answer.

Question: Do you believe that we are all sinners, doomed to hell unless we repent of our sins and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

I will leave this up for one week and take a count at the end. One week will be May 6th.

MY COMMENTS: I may have commented on this before---I can't remember.

To answer the post question: By "hell", if you mean the traditional view of a place of fire and brimstone somewhere in the center of the earth, where the souls of the wicked are in conscious eternal torment, and also the souls of the wicked in the future, then I say NO!

To answer the above question: I believe we are all sinners in need of a Saviour; that the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23), not unending torment in some fictional place in the center of the earth.

That God through Christ will judge rightly everyone, and will repay with vengeance those who deserve it. They will be resurrected to stand in their body before the great white throne.

The church/body of Christ will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ in the heavens after the rapture.

Israel will be juged during the tribulation and by Jesus as Messiah after his second coming to the earth.

Also, those of the nations who have survived the tribulation, will be judged by Christ from his Glory Throne near Jerusalem, as to how they treated His brethren, the Jews.

 

[Criada]

Missed the poll, but thought I'd contribute to the discussion anyway
I would have voted yes, btw. , I belive that hell is real, I don't think anyone can read Jesus' words and not accept that.
However, the fact that hell is real does not mean that God will torture people for all eternity.. that it not justice - infinite punishment for finite sins is rather excessive.
Most of the arguments for 'eternal torment' have quoted scriptures such as Matt 23:41, referring to eternal fire. However, these only state that the fire is eternal. I can light a fire which I will keep burning all day. That does not mean that if I throw a piece of paper into it, the paper will burn all day.
Fire in scripture has two purposes, to purify or to destroy. Neither of these fits with 'everlasting torment'. Destruction may be interpreted as everlasting punishment as the person is never reprieved, but that is different from eternal torment.

The Bible is quite clear as to what the 'lake of fire' is:

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.(Revelation 20:14)

Thus the unsaved dead are resurrected, judged, and then thrown into the 'second death', not eternal life, which is the gift of Christ, and not the automatic state of fallen man.

 

[MariaRegina]

Mod Hat on

Closed for Staff Review.


Mod Hat off​