Poll: Bishop John Shelby Spong and orthodoxy?

[Bulldog]

I'm not looking for a debate or conflict, I'd just like to see what everybody thinks.

 

[Tetzel]

What does orthodoxy mean in an Anglican context?

 

[alban]

No, Bishop Spong is certainly not within the realm of Christian orthodoxy.

 

[PaladinValer]

Other.

While he definitely has said and believes in a lot of hereodoxies, he is quite often a misunderstood man. For that, he has my sympathies.

The fact that he constantly struggles with the Nicene Creed shows that he has more faith than perhaps everyone on CF even has.

 

[benedictine]

Other.

While he definitely has said and believes in a lot of hereodoxies, he is quite often a misunderstood man. For that, he has my sympathies.

The fact that he constantly struggles with the Nicene Creed shows that he has more faith than perhaps everyone on CF even has.

how so?

 

[PaladinValer]

Have you ever read anything he has written?

 

[Bulldog]

Other.

While he definitely has said and believes in a lot of hereodoxies, he is quite often a misunderstood man. For that, he has my sympathies.

So it's not a matter of either/or? One can be partially within orthodoxy?

 

[PaladinValer]

Never said that, nor implied that.

 

[Bulldog]

Never said that, nor implied that.

Okay, but I'm curious as to how you understand this. Is somone who claims to be a Christian either orthodox or unorthodox? Is there another option?

 

[PaladinValer]

Read what I said.

 

[Bulldog]

I read what you said. It's what propted my questions.

 

[alban]

You said

While he definitely has said and believes in a lot of hereodoxies

So you do believe he's outside orthodox christian teaching?

 

[holyshe]

THIS SOUNDS INTERESTING BUT WHO THE HECK IS Bishop John Shelby Spong NEVER HEARD OF HIM?
IT MAY SOUND SILLY BUT IS HE A BRITISH BISHOP OR WHAT?

I KNOW IT MAKES ME SOUND THICK BUT I DONT EVER PRETEND TO KNOW EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING!

FROM CONFUSED
HOLYSHE XX

 

[gitlance]

The very definition of heresy implies that there is at least some truth within it. Heresy is the perversion of truth. So yes, Spong has some truth within what he says, but it's truth embedded in falsehood, which makes it heresy.

 

[Inge87]

THIS SOUNDS INTERESTING BUT WHO THE HECK IS Bishop John Shelby Spong NEVER HEARD OF HIM?
IT MAY SOUND SILLY BUT IS HE A BRITISH BISHOP OR WHAT?

I KNOW IT MAKES ME SOUND THICK BUT I DONT EVER PRETEND TO KNOW EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING!

FROM CONFUSED
HOLYSHE XX

Bishop Spong is retired American Episcopal bishop. He holds to some views of Christianity that are intersting to say the least.

Here's some more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong
http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/jssbiog.html

 

[PaladinValer]

He is heterodox. However, a lot of what he says is misunderstood to be heterodox when it really probably isn't.

He's more complex than a simple label of "heretical." Then again, so were a great deal of heretics. Take Tertullian; the man apostated to Montanism, but boy oh boy was he, even then, an ardent defender of the Truth of the Blessed Trinity.

And even St. Augustine of Hippo argued that not all of what heretics say or teach is necessarily heretical or wrong. What is wrong is wrong, but what is truth is truth. Even the Donatist he debated with as written about in his work, On Christian Teaching, wasn't entirely wrong on everything, though he was a heretic. And St. Augustine praised that Donatist when he was right.

My point? Be careful with labels, but be even more careful on how you treat heretics.

 

[Simon_Templar]

The question is a very simple one.. it was not "is John Shelby Spong a nice guy?" or "is John Shelby Spong an honest man of integrity?" it was "Is what Bishop Spong beleives/teaches within the realm of orthodoxy".

The answer is no.

Paladin, while I really have no idea how his struggles with the nicean creed make him more faithful than anyone else.. it does clearly reveal that he is not within the realm of orthodoxy. The nicean creed is the minimum statement of sufficiency for christian orthodoxy. If you can't agree with it, you're not orthodox, no matter how nice or full of integrity you are.

Christian orthodoxy is not a judgement of ones personality, it is a standard that you either agree with, or disagree with. A wrong belief sincerely held is still a wrong belief and is still damaging to the person who holds it.

 

[scraparcs]

Is what most of what he teaches within orthodoxy? Probably not. But do I have the heart to call him on it? No, that's not really my place.

I will say he makes my diocese look positively conservative in comparison, and we're not a conservative diocese.

 

[Historicus]

I personally said "no". Yes, I do think there is a bit of truth in some, not all of what he is teaching... not enough though to replace the fact that he is completly denying orthodox Christian beliefs.

 

[AngCath]

Spong orthodox? HAH