Political Correctness

[RandyPNW]

Politically Correct.
I do not believe in "Black Lives Matter." I believe in "All Lives Matter."
I do not believe in "Politically Correct Speech." I believe in "Free Speech."

Don't get me wrong. Speaking with no sense of your audience is not "loving" in the Christian sense. We must show regard for the feelings of others.

But when it comes to demands being made by people who want to control the narrative, I think a person should construct and devise his or her own narrative. We should be as sensitive to the message we are to bring as we are to how much the people might like that message.

We are to be witnessing to the Kingdom of God. It is not a message that is "liked" by the non-Christian world, or even by many so-called "Liberal Christians." But if we are to "obey God rather than Man," then we must be faithful to the message.

God loves all of mankind--not just Black People. And as Christians our message should be: "All Lives matter, Black, White, or any other Color."

And we should not craft our speech to conform with the message others want us to deliver. In the most compassionate, understanding way possible, we must speak the "truth in love."

 

[stevil]

Politically Correct.
I do not believe in "Black Lives Matter." I believe in "All Lives Matter."

This is a very silly way to react to the phrase "Black lives matter"
Because the phrase isn't "Only black lives matter" therefore you don't need to have a knee jerk reaction and rush to "All lives matter"

If instead you were able to listen and perhaps be inquisitive then hearing the phrase "Black lives matter" being spoken by blacks, ought to make you think, why are black's pointing out the obvious "that black lives matter"? We know this already don't we?
What has happened to make them feel that in society "Black lives don't matter"?
That's sad isn't it, that they feel that way.
It would actually be a problem if what they are thinking is true.
It's actually a problem that they are thinking that way at all, because everyone should think that their lives matter.

Let's try to work out why they are saying that in society it seems currently that "Black lives don't matter".

Hmm, it looks like there are several instances where police are able to kill unarmed black people and not face any severe repercussions.
And yet if a similar situation happens where a white person is killed by police, the police do face severe repercussions.
What's going on here? This is horrible. Maybe we need to promote the idea that Black lives matter, because it seems the system has forgotten this.
Do we need to promote that "All lives matter"?
Well, hmm, it seems the problem isn't that society is not worried when a white person is killed or when a white child is abducted, gets all over the media, manhunts for years, severe repercussions. But the problem is when a black person is killed or when a black child is abducted, very little media attention, only short manhunt, and seems to be very little repurcussions. Yes, we need to remind people that "Black lives matter too"

I do not believe in "Politically Correct Speech." I believe in "Free Speech."

What is political correctness?

""Political correctness" (adjectivally "politically correct"; commonly abbreviated to P.C.) is a term used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society."

Hmm, seems like a good idea, to be a decent human being and to be respectful of people around you.
Does it impact "Free speech", doesn't seem to, I can be an obnoxious bigot if I want to be. But hey maybe it makes sense to put a little time into thinking about whether what I am saying is hurtful or spiteful or racist. Maybe I was saying some things in the past, because I have heard the phrases before, and so I thought they were common and normal and just came to mind, but now you bring it up, I see that others could take it as me being offensive, degrading or racist towards them. Hummm, I am grateful now that I can see how my words can be hurtful, I can still be obnoxious, it's a free country after all, but why would I want to be that way?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Politically Correct.
I do not believe in "Black Lives Matter." I believe in "All Lives Matter."
I do not believe in "Politically Correct Speech." I believe in "Free Speech."

Don't get me wrong. Speaking with no sense of your audience is not "loving" in the Christian sense. We must show regard for the feelings of others.

But when it comes to demands being made by people who want to control the narrative, I think a person should construct and devise his or her own narrative. We should be as sensitive to the message we are to bring as we are to how much the people might like that message.

We are to be witnessing to the Kingdom of God. It is not a message that is "liked" by the non-Christian world, or even by many so-called "Liberal Christians." But if we are to "obey God rather than Man," then we must be faithful to the message.

God loves all of mankind--not just Black People. And as Christians our message should be: "All Lives matter, Black, White, or any other Color."

And we should not craft our speech to conform with the message others want us to deliver. In the most compassionate, understanding way possible, we must speak the "truth in love."

What if speaking the truth in love makes people feel guilty?

 

[stevil]

What if speaking the truth in love makes people feel guilty?

Then perhaps keep your mouth shut. Just a suggestion, of course you can speak if you want, its a free country and all that.

Think about whether you want that person you are speaking to, to want to have a continued relationship with you, or whether you want them to continue ignoring you.

Are you wanting to be nice, or obnoxious? How do you want to present yourself?

The person you are saying "truth" to, are they your friend? will they value your words, will they see it as coming from love to help them, or will they see you as being mean, obnoxious and intentionally hurtful?

You get to decide how to present yourself, how to develop your own reputation. Your own words are more a reflection on you than it is on the person you are speaking to. There is a time for being brutally honest and there is a time for being kind and friendly. Bing brutally honest when you aren't a trusted adviser to the target just comes across as you being unnecessarily mean.

 

[RandyPNW]

This is a very silly way to react to the phrase "Black lives matter"
Because the phrase isn't "Only black lives matter" therefore you don't need to have a knee jerk reaction and rush to "All lives matter"

My point is that when others try to control my speech they are trying to impose their own narrative, which is what you proceed to spell out. When that is done, what you're doing is attempting to displace my sense and understanding with what you believe I should think.

Now you may say that "Black Lives Matter" is just an expression of unbalanced justice afforded Blacks in America. But I may say that the same trope indicates that violent action must be done to correct this so-called "injustice."

What the saying suggests is that other people's rights should take back seat to the needs of Black Americans in view of their current concerns and suffering. I do believe this is a wrong way of looking at it, and thus, would suggest countering the saying with "All Lives Matter," obvious though it is.

Some use "Black Lives Matter" to justify, or at least to explain, the violence and rioting that took place in association with this saying. I would counter with "All Lives Matter" as a statement of protest against any such rationalization. Black concerns do not take precedence over the cause of any group whatsoever.

 

[RandyPNW]

Then perhaps keep your mouth shut. Just a suggestion, of course you can speak if you want, its a free country and all that.

Think about whether you want that person you are speaking to, to want to have a continued relationship with you, or whether you want them to continue ignoring you.

Are you wanting to be nice, or obnoxious? How do you want to present yourself?

The person you are saying "truth" to, are they your friend? will they value your words, will they see it as coming from love to help them, or will they see you as being mean, obnoxious and intentionally hurtful?

You get to decide how to present yourself, how to develop your own reputation. Your own words are more a reflection on you than it is on the person you are speaking to. There is a time for being brutally honest and there is a time for being kind and friendly. Bing brutally honest when you aren't a trusted adviser to the target just comes across as you being unnecessarily mean.

The Scriptures say, "Do all things (among believers) for edification." That may involve discipline or encouragement, rebuke or teaching. We have to judge the need and the impact.

We are told not to be provocative or crass. These things should come to mind as we face each situation. Of course, it isn't always easy.

 

[stevil]

We are told not to be provocative or crass. These things should come to mind as we face each situation. Of course, it isn't always easy.

It gets easier the more you practice it. For many it becomes second nature. Just be nice to people, be pleasant, be friendly.
It isn't your life's mission to point out everyone's perceived flaws or to be provocatively thought provoking.

 

[stevil]

My point is that when others try to control my speech they are trying to impose their own narrative, which is what you proceed to spell out. When that is done, what you're doing is attempting to displace my sense and understanding with what you believe I should think.

I'm not trying to control your speech, I'm just showing that "black lives matters" is very different from "only black lives matter" and having a come back of "all lives matter" while true, seems to miss the point that the "black lives matter" phrase is trying to convey.

Now you may say that "Black Lives Matter" is just an expression of unbalanced justice afforded Blacks in America. But I may say that the same trope indicates that violent action must be done to correct this so-called "injustice."

While many blacks and black supporters did get emotional to the point of violence in the wake of the George Floyd murder. The simple phrase "Black lives matters" is a positive one and not an inciteful of violence one.

What the saying suggests is that other people's rights should take back seat to the needs of Black Americans in view of their current concerns and suffering. I do believe this is a wrong way of looking at it, and thus, would suggest countering the saying with "All Lives Matter," obvious though it is.

That's not how logic works.
If I say that "Grass is green" I am not then implying that trees aren't also green. nor am I am implying that trees are less important than grass.
I'm simply pointing out that grass is green.

Saying Black lives matter, isn't saying that White lives don't matter and it isn't saying that Black lives matter more than White. It is simply pointing out that Black lives matter. Perhaps because in light of police murders and brutality on black and resulting in light repercussions, it seems society may have forgotten that Black lives matter.

Some use "Black Lives Matter" to justify, or at least to explain, the violence and rioting that took place in association with this saying. I would counter with "All Lives Matter" as a statement of protest against any such rationalization. Black concerns do not take precedence over the cause of any group whatsoever.

There is no justification for the violence and harm that happened at some BLM protests that turned into rioting and looting.
We can understand that tensions were high, with many blacks feeling oppressed and feeling a target of an unjust system.
But that does not justify blacks themselves getting violent.

 

[RandyPNW]

I'm not trying to control your speech, I'm just showing that "black lives matters" is very different from "only black lives matter" and having a come back of "all lives matter" while true, seems to miss the point that the "black lives matter" phrase is trying to convey.



While many blacks and black supporters did get emotional to the point of violence in the wake of the George Floyd murder. The simple phrase "Black lives matters" is a positive one and not an inciteful of violence one.

That's not how logic works.
If I say that "Grass is green" I am not then implying that trees aren't also green. nor am I am implying that trees are less important than grass.
I'm simply pointing out that grass is green.

Saying Black lives matter, isn't saying that White lives don't matter and it isn't saying that Black lives matter more than White. It is simply pointing out that Black lives matter. Perhaps because in light of police murders and brutality on black and resulting in light repercussions, it seems society may have forgotten that Black lives matter.

Brother, I have zero trouble understanding what the issue behind the saying is concerned with. Obviously, my concern is with the racial division it tends to promote, along with all of the associated rioting and violence that impacted both Black and non-Black people.

The fact that you take issue with "All Lives Matter" bothers me. On its face there is zero wrong with that. And thinking that those who say "All Lives Matter" are insensitive to Black issues is presumptuous and wrong.

To say I think nothing of Blacks just because I don't like the saying is strange and narrow. I have both relatives and friends of all persusasions, including White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic. I don't need a saying associated with violence to prove I care.

Your preaching to me, therefore, comes across as hostile as the saying itself suggests. You, in other words, prove my point by complaining about the saying.

It doesn't matter. Let it go. Let others say both what they feel about it and how they mean it.

 

[durangodawood]

I don't think people really believe that all lives matter. It's just a platitude. There's no evidence to suggest anyone's consideration extends that far.

 

[stevil]

Brother, I have zero trouble understanding what the issue behind the saying is concerned with. Obviously, my concern is with the racial division it tends to promote, along with all of the associated rioting and violence that impacted both Black and non-Black people.

The phrase "Black lives matter" isn't promoting racial division. Maybe if it helps you, think it as "Black lives matter too".

With this phrase, blacks are wanting equality.

This isn't promoting violence. It is highlighting the violence that has happened against blacks. It is suggesting that the violence needs to stop and that people should treat blacks as if their lives matter too.

 

[RandyPNW]

I don't think people really believe that all lives matter. It's just a platitude. There's no evidence to suggest anyone's consideration extends that far.

A couple of billion Christians, nominal or not, have signed on to the idea that all people are created in the image of God, and should be treated as such. Another couple billion or so Muslims believe something similar, although their religious agenda among zealots prove this view inconsistent among them.

Much of the Communist world has been influenced by Christian ideology and morality--why else would it be concerned for the Working Man? At least the claim is that they care about *all* people. I'm sure that many of them do.

I think you're a bit too cynical to think many do not care about *all* lives. But I do get your point that most people do not live out their idealism and philosophy consistently.

 

[stevil]

The fact that you take issue with "All Lives Matter" bothers me. On its face there is zero wrong with that. And thinking that those who say "All Lives Matter" are insensitive to Black issues is presumptuous and wrong.

I've never said that I take issue with "All lives matter"
You can say that if you want.

I just said that it misses the point. If you truly believe that "all lives matter" then you perhaps should have joined in with the "Black lives matter" protests. A person was murdered by the police. That is worth protesting, this person was part of "all lives" AND was also part of "Black lives".
To me it would make sense for the "All lives matter" people to be there right beside the "Black lives matter" people, all holding up their slogans, all in unity protesting against the murder of George Floyd.

What I don't understand is why the "all lives matter" folk paint themselves as adversaries of the "BLM" folk rather than allies.

 

[durangodawood]

A couple of billion Christians, nominal or not, have signed on to the idea that all people are created in the image of God, and should be treated as such. Another couple billion or so Muslims believe something similar, although their religious agenda among zealots prove this view inconsistent among them.

Much of the Communist world has been influenced by Christian ideology and morality--why else would it be concerned for the Working Man? At least the claim is that they care about *all* people. I'm sure that many of them do.

I think you're a bit too cynical to think many do not care about *all* lives. But I do get your point that most people do not live out their idealism and philosophy consistently.

I do appreciate that the major religious founders encourage respect for all other humans. But I dont see that in effect typically. People arent behaving as if they care about the consequences of their actions for others, except in a very limited way.

Also, "lives" should mean all living creatures. Literally, it does. But people somewhat blindly restrict it to just humans.

 

[rambot]

My point is that when others try to control my speech they are trying to impose their own narrative, which is what you proceed to spell out. When that is done, what you're doing is attempting to displace my sense and understanding with what you believe I should think.

Now you may say that "Black Lives Matter" is just an expression of unbalanced justice afforded Blacks in America. But I may say that the same trope indicates that violent action must be done to correct this so-called "injustice."

What the saying suggests is that other people's rights should take back seat to the needs of Black Americans in view of their current concerns and suffering. I do believe this is a wrong way of looking at it, and thus, would suggest countering the saying with "All Lives Matter," obvious though it is.

Some use "Black Lives Matter" to justify, or at least to explain, the violence and rioting that took place in association with this saying. I would counter with "All Lives Matter" as a statement of protest against any such rationalization. Black concerns do not take precedence over the cause of any group whatsoever.

Or perhaps rhey are just making you aware od things.


For example I know a woman whose had 6 miscarriages. All od them bringing painful memories. We don't talk about
our pregnancies around her unless invited to.

I didn't go blatheting on about the health of our fetuses because it hurts her.


Recognizing the impact of our speech on others can make us willing to "control"/monitor our speech. I don't think it's a bad thing and I don't think it's limiting your freedom.

 

[Pommer]

My point is that when others try to control my speech they are trying to impose their own narrative, which is what you proceed to spell out. When that is done, what you're doing is attempting to displace my sense and understanding with what you believe I should think.

A valid position.

Now you may say that "Black Lives Matter" is just an expression of unbalanced justice afforded Blacks in America. But I may say that the same trope indicates that violent action must be done to correct this so-called "injustice."

This negates you first point…by you, yourself adding the hypothetical “violent action must be done”.

What the saying suggests is that other people's rights should take back seat to the needs of Black Americans in view of their current concerns and suffering. I do believe this is a wrong way of looking at it, and thus, would suggest countering the saying with "All Lives Matter," obvious though it is.

If “all lives matter” why the need for “black lives matter”?
Maybe because of the inequitable outcomes at the hand of LEOs, faced by BIPOC?

Some use "Black Lives Matter" to justify, or at least to explain, the violence and rioting that took place in association with this saying.

There was some peaceful protests as well, like 93%.

I would counter with "All Lives Matter" as a statement of protest against any such rationalization. Black concerns do not take precedence over the cause of any group whatsoever.

So the events that spurred the Black Lives Matter don’t mean enough to do anything about those events or how do we as a society, deal with event similar to them in the future?

 

[RandyPNW]

I've never said that I take issue with "All lives matter"
You can say that if you want.

I just said that it misses the point. ..

Again, that's a presumption you're making. I personally dismiss "Black Lives Matter" not because I don't think Black lives matter but because of what the slogan has meant to America and to me personally. It has meant Black athletes pumping their fists in the air or kneeling down to use sports to advance their own interests and agenda.

And I wish to be entertained in some environnments without having to listen to sales pitches, in particular political messages that I do not agree with. Forcing me to watch someone scream in my face is not my idea of civilized behavior. And it certainly isn't Christian.

Many of these people protesting the treatment of Blacks in the past are in favor of those who've been violent. I don't entertain myself with sports to be force fed messages of racism and violence. At least that's how I've seen them.

Of course this isn't just in sports. Protesters are painting streets and any place they can force people to listen to them.

I have no problem "getting" the need to continue raising concerns about discrimination against Black Americans, although things are much better than they were in the past. I've prayed against the atmosphere of discrimination against Blacks for many years. It has been a major focus in my life--I just don't embrace a message of hate to facilitate this. I'm with MLK.

If you truly believe that "all lives matter" then you perhaps should have joined in with the "Black lives matter" protests. A person was murdered by the police. That is worth protesting, this person was part of "all lives" AND was also part of "Black lives".

I will not join in with a slogan that represents violence to me. It represents hostility--taking vengeance on a society because of what it has experienced in the past. Taking vengeance on a city recklessly and without discriminating which of them are the culprits is as bad as what is being protested.

Take my family, for example. All of my grandparents are from other countries. I was born here, and my parents were born here. But my grandparents all came from other countries where there was no hostility towards Black People.

But I'm told I'm "White." What the heck does that mean, that my family originates from some culture group, region of the earth, or nation?

So what? We all did. Why am I forcibly allied with "White Americans?" Why am I told that "Whites are bad, and Blacks are good?"

For that matter, why are women, when they claim rape, advocated for as if they can't lie? This is just one more area of political correctness that Leftists are out to promote within the Democratic Party. There is a force in our society trying to separate men and women, "Blacks" and "Whites." I want no part of it.

What I don't understand is why the "all lives matter" folk paint themselves as adversaries of the "BLM" folk rather than allies.

See above. The slogan means more than just the value of human life among the Blacks. It represents a divide between all Blacks and all Whites with a tone of racism and a sometimes product of violence. It has created an issue among all groups when for some groups it is a non-issue.

It would be like I have a lawsuit against a particular company and demanding that you listen to my endless complaints against it. You shouldn't have to be pulled into a dog fight. Neither should I have people saying I don't care about Black lives simply because I don't want to listen to someone scream at me about their rights and punch me in the face if I'm "White."

 

[RandyPNW]

A valid position.

This negates you first point…by you, yourself adding the hypothetical “violent action must be done”.

I wouldn't know why? The 1st point I made, which you accepted, is that we can have different views of something, and should not have someone try to impose their view on me.

Stating my view that the slogan "Black Lives Matter" is associated with "violence" is a fact. I do view it that way, and the rioting seems to indicate that it's true. In any case, I'm not imposing my view on you--I'm just expressing my own view.

If “all lives matter” why the need for “black lives matter”?
Maybe because of the inequitable outcomes at the hand of LEOs, faced by BIPOC?

I know where the slogan originates--it is in the sense among American Blacks that they are still being discriminated against and treated unjustly. Knowing where the slogan comes from and recognizing that is has come to be associated with radical action and violence is another thing entirely.

You seem to think that the mere existence of discrimination against minorities allows them to use flags that encourage violence? There may be a time to fight with fists and arms--this was not one of those occasions.

There was some peaceful protests as well, like 93%.
All this because what % of Blacks were murdered as acts of racist violence? Why were *all* police targeted by the Defund the Police movement?

The 93% encouraged the 7% in their violence, it seems? Why else would they all protest in the same place and at the same time?

So the events that spurred the Black Lives Matter don’t mean enough to do anything about those events or how do we as a society, deal with event similar to them in the future?

I think political radicals were behind the Black Violence movement. They are Anarchists. They may be Communists. They may be Extreme Islamists.

One thing I'm sure of--they are filled with hatred, and they hate our country. If they loved our country they would show love--not hate.

 

[DaisyDay]

Some use "Black Lives Matter" to justify, or at least to explain, the violence and rioting that took place in association with this saying.

Much if not most the violence was in "association" with this saying was not done by the BLM protesters. Most the rioting took place after the protest had taken place. Remember that besides the BLM protesters were the counter-protesters which often included Proud Boys and their ilk. Then to counter the counter-protesters were Antifa who did engage in violence which was too often either conflated with or attributed to BLM.

 

[DaisyDay]

Again, that's a presumption you're making. I personally dismiss "Black Lives Matter" not because I don't think Black lives matter but because of what the slogan has meant to America and to me personally. It has meant Black athletes pumping their fists in the air or kneeling down to use sports to advance their own interests and agenda.

It is so strange that a few men kneeling in silence and submission provokes such rage in so many.

And I wish to be entertained in some environnments without having to listen to sales pitches, in particular political messages that I do not agree with. Forcing me to watch someone scream in my face is not my idea of civilized behavior. And it certainly isn't Christian.

I sympathize wanting ad-free entertainment BUT is football or any professional sports event devoid of sales pitches? Even the stadium names are ads. Again, I can see wanting to avoid sales pitches while being entertained at sporting events but expecting to get it seems unrealistic. Even kids' games have sponsors' ads all over.

Many of these people protesting the treatment of Blacks in the past are in favor of those who've been violent. I don't entertain myself with sports to be force fed messages of racism and violence. At least that's how I've seen them.

Ice skating and gymnastics avoid violence; football, hockey and MMA not so much.

Of course this isn't just in sports. Protesters are painting streets and any place they can force people to listen to them.

Kneeling is silent. Painting is visual. Protests can generally be avoided if they are planned and permitted.

I have no problem "getting" the need to continue raising concerns about discrimination against Black Americans, although things are much better than they were in the past. I've prayed against the atmosphere of discrimination against Blacks for many years. It has been a major focus in my life--I just don't embrace a message of hate to facilitate this. I'm with MLK.

That's nice.

The 93% encouraged the 7% in their violence, it seems? Why else would they all protest in the same place and at the same time?

They didn't all protest in the same place and at the same time. There were some 9,000 discrete BLM protests that took place over many, many months.

One thing I'm sure of--they are filled with hatred, and they hate our country. If they loved our country they would show love--not hate.

This reads as projection.