Point of View Hell.....

[twosid]

I've been wanting to write a novel for a very long time and seem to be getting pretty close to actually starting it..etc. but I'm hung on point of view. 1'st time novelists are supposed to stick with 1'st person right? My problem is that I want to be able to tell whats going on somewhere that the protagonist isn't (assuming its from their pov) and tell details they wouldn't know. So how do you have a scene somewhere the protagonist isn't without narrative or changing points of view?

 

[Tier]

I can't see how you would get around that... If I was in that situation I would just introduce another character and view through their eyes (So you are still in first person, but not the same character's) or switch perspectives.

 

[twosid]

I don't think I can do that without changing pov though.

 

[Slina]

Well, if you have important scenes where your viewpoint character isn't, you probably need to try a different viewpoint. I don't think it's required that you do first person. But if you really want to do first, then consider changing the story around a little so you either don't need the scene anymore, or so your character is in the scene. Or maybe have a different viewpoint character altogether.

 

[Vulgivagus hagiographus]

I don't think first person is necessary for first time writers (I've never heard of that before). Anyway, if you want to write it first person, I think it could be possible. Think about the context of your viewpoint character's story is being told. Such as, he could be retelling the story to a court of law, for example. If that were the case, it would be after the events of the story. Perhaps the viewpoint character was told by one of the characters in the scene that he wasn't in what happened at that point. Something like, "While we were back at the ranch, Frank went fishing and felt a tug on his line. He pulled and pulled, but he couldn't reel the thing in..." Like that, except I'm sure you have a much better story than that! If that were the case, the scenes your viewpoint character wasn't in would be in third person.

You wouldn't have to put in when, where, or why the character was telling this story. Just have it in the back your your head. Maybe you don't even need that. Just invision the person retelling from a past experiance and I think it will work.

In Treasure Island, they handled this situation by just changing first person viewpoint characters. The first line of the chapter where they changed said something like, "Now from the person journal of so and so." That's one way to handle it.

 

[twosid]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm really not at the point yet where pov has clicked and I really understand it as well as I'd like. The only thing I know to do is just start writing I guess and take it from there cause if I keep mulling it over and waiting I'll never start.

 

[Lucubratus]

Computer Dunce made some good points. Yet I have not read a 1st person novel where POV was switched to another person before. Multiple viewpoint stories do have as a general rule though - seperate chapters for each VP.
I actually can't stand reading 1st person stories so I may not be giving the best advice here...LOL!!
You could go to the library though - and ask the Librarian if they have books published from Writer's Digest: They have a lot of "how-to's" and some chapters are devoted to what viewpoint you want to tell.
I do remember said book's little sidenote from one of the contributor's: Don't write first person unless you really love it and are really good at it. I think it's a pain in the *** and so do many editors."

And no - there is no rule that a first time author has to write in such a way. Some newbie writer's will do that though, as a way to get into the character's head. I do that myself with little scenes that one else is likely to see.

for more writing advice, check out www.writersdigest.com

 

[mbdeyes]

Computer Dunce made some good points. Yet I have not read a 1st person novel where POV was switched to another person before. Multiple viewpoint stories do have as a general rule though - seperate chapters for each VP.
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I've seen it done effectively. They just switch to a different voice at the beginning of a new arc of chapters. That could be just a difficult for a first time writer though. You have to be very confident of the viewpoint of each character that you see through, rather than just developing one character really well. Of course, this is the opinion of a reader, not a writer

 

[Lucubratus]

I take a dislike on a personal level to first person, but all that aside - I know it can sometimes be the same point of view an editor has; it all depends.

 

[Tier]

Hm I guess I write as if I was filming, and feel free to pan around and change perspectives as I want to.

I also thought of POV and perspective were two different things...

 

[TimeBandit]

POV. Doesn’t matter what POV you use for your novel. Here are a few things to think about. 2nd person is rarely used at all, and I can’t recall ever reading one in 2nd person. There are some short stories that use 2nd person. 1st person is used quite often, mostly in crime novels involving a PI. 3rd person limited is my choice and it is the one most used. Now you can switch it up. There are more and more authors that write their main character from a 1st person POV and the events that happen away from the main character are done in 3rd person. My suggestion, and it is only a suggestion, is to work at the whole story first. Once that is done, then it is easier to decide which person it should be written in and which tense it should be in. Hope that helps.

 

[mbdeyes]

I also thought of POV and perspective were two different things...

You've got me curious.... what's your definition of perspective vs Point of View?

 

[Lucubratus]

I do that as well, Tier - when writing I see the whole book as much like a movie, and if I get tired of the first act I go towards the ending or someplace else.

 

[mbdeyes]

I do that as well, Tier - when writing I see the whole book as much like a movie, and if I get tired of the first act I go towards the ending or someplace else.

oooooo..... literary fast forward.....

 

[Lucubratus]

oooooo..... literary fast forward.....

heh heh.

Well I have to tell you - if you "think cinematically" when you're working on a novel, it really does help in getting the story out of your head and onto paper.