Pledge, Charter, History...

[DialecticMaterialist]

TC it seems that you are more focused on what you believe to be "leftist conspiracies" then you are on the truth of the matter.

It is well known to everyone supporting the seperation of church and state that the exact phrase "seperation of church and state" does not appear in the constition, it is inferred from it.

And its not just "radical leftists" who are supporting the separation of church and state either: Ayn Rand Objectivists, who are about as right-wing as you get, support it too: http://religion.aynrand.org/

On Jefferson's letter, you are right, he was awarwe of what can happen if you let government promote religion and violate freedom of conscience, which is why he wanted a "Wall of seperation between Church and State"

And BTW a Christian nation is a theocracy, you aren't fooling anyone there. If you say we are going by "the Christian God's laws" you are in essence saying that "the christian god is the ruler" and hence making the nation a theocracy.

 

[Ben johnson]

Most of the "remove Christ from society" cases have been orchestrated by "ACLU". Anybody know how THEY started???

Jefferson wrote the letter to the church in Connecticut, clearly indicating that the "WALL OF SEPARATION", was to keep GOVERNMENT out of CHURCH. If Jefferson was so OPPOSED to Christianity-in-public, why did he, as superintendent of DC schools, install the Christian Bible as CURRICULUM?!?! Don't give me the "there was nothing ELSE", had he FELT it was inappropriate, he would have FOUND something else...

"COngress shallmake no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

Is saying the Pledge in public schools, a CONGRESS ESTABLISHED RELIGION? No.

"...Nor forbidding the free excercise thereof..."

Is forbidding the Pledge, PROHIBITTING THE FREE EXCERCISE? Yes.

And you're RIGHT, if the majority of a given population area was MOSLEM or HINDU or BUDDHIST, they have EVERY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to PRAY IN SCHOOL! Teachers, too. The only right the STUDENT has, is to request (and be given) leave if he/she wishes not to PARTICIPATE.

"CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A RELIGION"---it has become, "GOD-FORBIDDEN-IN-PUBLIC"

It was NOT SO in 1776.

It was NOT SO in 1800.

It was NOT SO in 1850.

It was NOT SO in 1930.

It was NOT SO in 1945.

It STARTED in 1947.

We have reversed our heritage.

Benjamin Rush, signer Declaration of Independence, served under John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, wrote: "There will be an explosion of crime; I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crime and take so little pains to prevent them" (education policy paper 1791, warnings of results of "removing the Bible from the classroom").

And---WHAT HAVE WE SEEN WITH OUR OWN EYES???

Since 1963, have teenage crime, suicide, pregnancy, drug abuse INCREASED, or NOT?

Did we have any school massacres a century ago???

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by Ben johnson
Most of the "remove Christ from society" cases have been orchestrated by "ACLU".

Please cite one case in which "Christ" has been "removed" from "society."

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is?

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by D. Scarlatti
Here's your assignment, TC. Go to oyez.nwu.edu and tell us how many of the last 25 or so Supreme Court Justices were appointed by "left-leaning" Presidents. I'll give you a little head start. One of them, Byron White, appointed by JFK, was one of the most conservative Justices in recent memory.

Also, tell us how many of the current nine Justices were appointed by "left-leaning" Presidents.

*bump*

TC, done your homework yet?

 

[DialecticMaterialist]

TC your suggestion that this whole issue is about some hippies from the sixties taking over is absurd. As if the leftists were anti-christian anyways(remember weed "comes from God") or all non-theists are leftists(AYn Rand,George H. Smith). The whole narrative you gave is simplistic, to say the least. The fact is that the Founders never intended this nation to support religion with government power and that you admit in your post that your intentions are really to make your religion into law and force your religious beliefs on anyone else.

The issue is important because it sets up a precedence by which religious people can force their religions on everyone else in public schools. Today monotheism, tomorrow perhaps protestanism (as one can argue that early americans were protetstant) or deism (as one can show that the Founders were deist). Perhaps in a few years it will be "One nation under Deism", I bet the Xians would love that.

It is obvious that if government can favor religion over non-religion/ and montheism over polytheism/ then you can place one sect of monotheism or christianity over another sect of monotheism and/or christianity.