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mystery4

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I am quite facinated by the posts on here. I don't often look on here, mainly cuz I"m so busy at uni and stuff that I don't have time to go on the comp. But, I can vouch that there are alot of people within SDA churches who do not love one another and have such bitterness towards others within the church that it saddens me.

I agree with you Palehorse, that the main focus of the SDA church should be to present to the world the 3 Angel's Messages with Christ as the centre. It should be him that people are drawn to within the churches. However, in my experience I have found that unless the problems within the church are delt with appropriately and effectively and not just brushed over, that while they may appear to disappear in the short term, eventually they're going to reappear. Only this time a whole lot worse than it was originally and you end up with a split in the church. And when this happens, the members cannot do their job effectively. One person begins competing against one another and the atmosphere within that it becomes unbearable.

God's work can be more effectively be done when everyone is working with God and one another. What type of place can this be, if people cannot tell others whats bothering them about their church? If all they ever can do is pretend everything is fine and great? I am not saying they can say it however they like, self control should be used on both parties and done in a Christ-like way and in love. But to just completely ignore it, would be even worse, at least in my opinion.
 
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statrei

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NeverADullMoment said:
Discrimination absolutely is illegal.

Statrei, are you SDA Reform or Historic SDA? Some of your comments lead me to believe that you are one or the other, which is cool, but I need to ask you a question if that's the case (about the historic SDA view of the trinity).

Stormy is a likable guy. He needs to come right out and say what's on his mind though without expecting everybody to figure it out from very few "clues."
Did you see what just happened? I said racism is not illegal, you responded by simply saying that discrimination is. This leaves the imprssion that you are disagreeing with what I said.

I don't care for labels because no one lives by the labels they select. Historic Adventists are not historic by any stretch of the imagination, and SDA Reform are not exactly reformed.

I will tell you what I think of the Trinity. It cannot be proven from the Bible though it is a logical conclusion. I accept that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all part of the government of the universe. You already know that I believe, and I can prove, that the term God is an invention of human religions. But the fact that there are three does not mean there could not be four or more. How they function is beyond my ken.
 
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statrei

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mystery4 said:
God's work can be more effectively be done when everyone is working with God and one another. What type of place can this be, if people cannot tell others whats bothering them about their church? If all they ever can do is pretend everything is fine and great? I am not saying they can say it however they like, self control should be used on both parties and done in a Christ-like way and in love. But to just completely ignore it, would be even worse, at least in my opinion.
You are obviously a fine student. I wish you all the best in your studies. Continue to think critically.
 
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mystery4

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honorthesabbath said:
Well Lainie--as I said in thread "13th"--I really do think it's time to shut this site down.

I disagree.

If what I have seen and read in this thread is anything to go by, then I think whatever has been said in this forum has not happened in vain. God can turn a useless situation around and use it for his good.

Sure maybe it wasn't a pleasant place to be for a while, but if people in this forum are able and willing to learn from this experience, to be more open to seeing the hurt behind whats been said, and to love others as Jesus loves them,then I think this would be one of the best forums to hang out in. You can be a witness to all those on this site, just by the way you treat one another, even when you disagree. Also being able to work through things.

I'm sure there were quite alot of people who were praying for this to be opened and were desperate to have an SDA one. Don't let one thing like this prevent such a great blessing as this turn you away. If you all continue in the Christ-like way I have seen in this thread, then it would be a great place, even for non-sevi's to hang out.:thumbsup:

God Bless you all.:groupray: :prayer:
 
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statrei

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mystery4 said:
I disagree.

If what I have seen and read in this thread is anything to go by, then I think whatever has been said in this forum has not happened in vain. God can turn a useless situation around and use it for his good.

Sure maybe it wasn't a pleasant place to be for a while, but if people in this forum are able and willing to learn from this experience, to be more open to seeing the hurt behind whats been said, and to love others as Jesus loves them,then I think this would be one of the best forums to hang out in. You can be a witness to all those on this site, just by the way you treat one another, even when you disagree. Also being able to work through things.

I'm sure there were quite alot of people who were praying for this to be opened and were desperate to have an SDA one. Don't let one thing like this prevent such a great blessing as this turn you away. If you all continue in the Christ-like way I have seen in this thread, then it would be a great place, even for non-sevi's to hang out.:thumbsup:

God Bless you all.:groupray: :prayer:
You have a wisdom beyond your years.
 
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NeverADullMoment

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statrei said:
Did you see what just happened? I said racism is not illegal, you responded by simply saying that discrimination is. This leaves the imprssion that you are disagreeing with what I said.

In case you haven't noticed, I DO disagree with you a lot. It's not just an impression. I'll say it flat out. LOL However, taking one's personal racism into a church and TURNING PEOPLE AWAY is discrimination. And that's illegal. Oh yes, it is.

I take it I'm not "wise beyond my years" because I disagree with you sometimes? I can live with that.
 
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statrei

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NeverADullMoment said:
In case you haven't noticed, I DO disagree with you a lot. It's not just an impression. I'll say it flat out. LOL However, taking one's personal racism into a church and TURNING PEOPLE AWAY is discrimination. And that's illegal. Oh yes, it is.

I take it I'm not "wise beyond my years" because I disagree with you sometimes? I can live with that.
I love it when laypeople who are untrained in the law wish to argue about what is illegal and what is not. Carry on, my friend.

And, please stop taking everything so personal. This is just an internet forum. If God can take it so can you. If He is truly upset we know what He can do.
 
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NeverADullMoment

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Layperson eh? I've had my fair share of experience in legal matters and research into the laws Statrei, but I prefer not to elaborate. It's arrogant to automatically assume that you know more than I do. Is my career listed in my profile? No.

You're right, this is just a forum. I'm not sure why you think I'm upset or doing anything other than smiling. It's difficult to "read" people on a forum, and you read me wrong. Maybe I've read you wrong too, but it seems obvious to me that you would argue with yourself in a mirror if you couldn't find anybody else to spare with.

Debate is great and healthy. Your arrogance is......another story.
 
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statrei

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NeverADullMoment said:
Layperson eh? I've had my fair share of experience in legal matters and research into the laws Statrei, but I prefer not to elaborate. It's arrogant to automatically assume that you know more than I do. Is my career listed in my profile? No.

You're right, this is just a forum. I'm not sure why you think I'm upset or doing anything other than smiling. It's difficult to "read" people on a forum, and you read me wrong. Maybe I've read you wrong too, but it seems obvious to me that you would argue with yourself in a mirror if you couldn't find anybody else to spare with.

Debate is great and healthy. Your arrogance is......another story.
I like how people always end up accusing people of arrogance when they are unable to counter the arguments provided. I guess we just have great difficulty being civil.
 
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SassySDA

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mystery4 said:
I am quite facinated by the posts on here. I don't often look on here, mainly cuz I"m so busy at uni and stuff that I don't have time to go on the comp. But, I can vouch that there are alot of people within SDA churches who do not love one another and have such bitterness towards others within the church that it saddens me.

I agree with you Palehorse, that the main focus of the SDA church should be to present to the world the 3 Angel's Messages with Christ as the centre. It should be him that people are drawn to within the churches. However, in my experience I have found that unless the problems within the church are delt with appropriately and effectively and not just brushed over, that while they may appear to disappear in the short term, eventually they're going to reappear. Only this time a whole lot worse than it was originally and you end up with a split in the church. And when this happens, the members cannot do their job effectively. One person begins competing against one another and the atmosphere within that it becomes unbearable.

God's work can be more effectively be done when everyone is working with God and one another. What type of place can this be, if people cannot tell others whats bothering them about their church? If all they ever can do is pretend everything is fine and great? I am not saying they can say it however they like, self control should be used on both parties and done in a Christ-like way and in love. But to just completely ignore it, would be even worse, at least in my opinion.

It was not in the telling of a problem within the church, or the discussion of it, that the problems arose here....it was in the WAY it was brought out...it was HOW things were being said.

I completely agree that it should not be ignored. I have learned some things that I didn't know before, and I am going to continue to study it out. What I have learned doesn't make me love my faith and my church any less...I love my children, but I'm not through "working on them", just as God is not through working with me.
 
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statrei

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SassySDA said:
It was not in the telling of a problem within the church, or the discussion of it, that the problems arose here....it was in the WAY it was brought out...it was HOW things were being said.

I completely agree that it should not be ignored. I have learned some things that I didn't know before, and I am going to continue to study it out. What I have learned doesn't make me love my faith and my church any less...I love my children, but I'm not through "working on them", just as God is not through working with me.
I like that.
 
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NeverADullMoment

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I agree Sassy, the manner in which we were told of a problem is what was so abrupt. I mean for goodness sake, finding out a problem like this is hard enough, we don't need to be generalized or criticized in order to get the message.

I don't think we're getting the credit we deserve. And I said that generally on purpose.
 
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honorthesabbath

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Sassy-- I went to the Allegheny web site--and right there on the first page I noticed something interesting--looky here!!

Elder Maurice T. Battle and Elder Ted Jones, who have served as secretaries of the General Conference, have given us a list of those they feel served as missionaries. But for decades no race was listed beside those who were sent out as missionaries and we know that we have missed many people of color. We also do not have the contact information (phone numbers, address, email address, etc) of many that we know served as missionaries. We don’t know how to contact them to include them. We want to include everybody who served, if we can.

It says for DECADES the GENERAL CONFERENCE sent out missionaries with NO COLOR SPECIFIED!!!!! Looks to me like the GC didn't CARE what color a missionary is or was!!!

I am at this momment writing to this Conference and I'm going to ask them outright if this seperate conference is of their choosing--or whities choosing. It is soo sad that we have to be addressing this. BUT--I'm an investigator, my nature dictates that I do this!!!

When I get their response--I WILL post it!!!!!

Blessings, Linda
 
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SassySDA

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honorthesabbath said:
Sassy-- I went to the Allegheny web site--and right there on the first page I noticed something interesting--looky here!!



It says for DECADES the GENERAL CONFERENCE sent out missionaries with NO COLOR SPECIFIED!!!!! Looks to me like the GC didn't CARE what color a missionary is or was!!!

I am at this momment writing to this Conference and I'm going to ask them outright if this seperate conference is of their choosing--or whities choosing. It is soo sad that we have to be addressing this. BUT--I'm an investigator, my nature dictates that I do this!!!

When I get their response--I WILL post it!!!!!

Blessings, Linda

Honor, I like you, could not let this go. I am studying and seeking, and searching. As I said in an earlier post, I dearly love my church, and if this IS a problem of the magnitude that I am getting the impression of here, I want to know it. Not so I can say, "ewwwwwwwwww, I'm LEAVING", but so that I can hopefully become part of a solution...not part of a problem.

Please do post any response that you may receive, I would greatly appreciate that.

From what I have been able to ascertain so far, and because this is simply my COMPREHENSION of what I have read, I'm waiting to post any documentation to prove it...just yet...but it if I am correct in comprehending what I have read, they will send you a response indicating it is by their choice...but SOLELY because if they wanted to be pastors, or anyone higher up on the church ladder, they were going to have to have their own conference....I'm getting the message (AND BECAUSE I STILL COULD BE WRONG I WON'T POST DOCUMENTATION...JUST YET), that this was the only way they could be promoted.

Dear Jesus, I hope I'm wrong.
 
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honorthesabbath

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Sassy--keep in mind that racism is a two-way street. Just as many blacks are hard prejudice as any white person. And BOTH sides have legitimate reasons. The very fact that so many individual SDA churches today are mixed congregations SHOULD carry more weight then any "conference" level problems.
 
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SassySDA

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StormyOne said:
I have info on the subject on when segregation by color started and why... but it's best you all research and I will fill in the blanks as best I can.....

Any websites, books, documentation, etc., you can supply would be appreciated. The sites I will determine for myself, if they are "hate sites" or not, and there are plenty of those to go around...meaning the information would be "questionable" at best.

But I would study any information provided to me, or just send me in the proper direction.
 
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