please look, the numbers can't lie

[unitedistand]

In case you're wondering the current state of the US, take a look.

www.thetruthforyouth.com/flash/intro.swf 

This is the escilating society that all teens will have to face in adulthood if something doesn't reform in the church and school.  The seperation of Church and state was never intended to be put into power the way it is interpreted right now (that God isn't welcome in the society).  The origional interpretation was that no law should or would be put in place that would go against Daddy's eternal law!

 

[Gabriel]

Cool sight.  I'll check it out further tomorrow.  I think I can use some of that stuff for youth group.

 

[seebs]

I thought separation of Church and State was supposed to be exactly what Christ commanded; the law should not favor (nor oppose) any religion, true or otherwise, because this makes it harder for people to genuinely *choose* God.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

I was not impressed by the site. It equates all secular music with Marilyn Manson. The evolution section focused on a series of strawmen. I still haven't checked out the rest of the site, so I can't comment on other sections.

 

[Susan]

You can become "religious" by compulsion of the state. However you can only be saved by recieving Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

I believe that separation of church and state is good, as long as all religions are separated from the state. For example, if the 10 Commandments or a cross cannot be posted, then neither can a Buddhist statue or an astrological symbol.

 

[Knight]

Originally posted by Susan
You can become "religious" by compulsion of the state. However you can only be saved by recieving Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

I believe that separation of church and state is good, as long as all religions are separated from the state. For example, if the 10 Commandments or a cross cannot be posted, then neither can a Buddhist statue or an astrological symbol.

Well said Susan.

The only problem is that many of the people who "preach" separation of church and state are only intending to single out Christianity. Shall I mention the class on Islam in a California PUBLIC school? It's not just information either the kids take on muslim names, memorize verses from the koran and actually practice the culture. Do you think this kind of class would be tolerated if it were Christian? I don't.

Exodous 20 3-

<SUP>3&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall have no other gods before Me.
4&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6&nbsp;&nbsp; but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
8&nbsp;&nbsp; "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9&nbsp;&nbsp; "Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10&nbsp;&nbsp; but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11&nbsp;&nbsp; "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12&nbsp;&nbsp; "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.
13&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not murder.
14&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not commit adultery.
15&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not steal.
16&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17&nbsp;&nbsp; "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor." </SUP>

<SUP>What about this is so offensive to people? Oh yeah that's right it reminds them that there IS an absolute standard of truth. </SUP>

 

[Susan]

If I remember correctly, those parts (the Koran memorization, the taking on Muslim names, etc.) were optional parts of the assignment.

Also, would you want a public school teaching your child the Christian faith? Considering the sorry way American public schools teach science, grammar, and geography (among other subjects, these are the documented worst) this may not be such a good idea.

As for me, I believe that we should send our children to Christian schools or even homeschool if we have the ability to do so and a good curriculum.

However, the most important thing is to teach your children the Christian faith by example. Not even the best schools can do that work, and not even the worst can take it away.

 

[Knight]

Originally posted by Susan
If I remember correctly, those parts (the Koran memorization, the taking on Muslim names, etc.) were optional parts of the assignment.

Also, would you want a public school teaching your child the Christian faith? Considering the sorry way American public schools teach science, grammar, and geography (among other subjects, these are the documented worst) this may not be such a good idea.

As for me, I believe that we should send our children to Christian schools or even homeschool if we have the ability to do so and a good curriculum.

However, the most important thing is to teach your children the Christian faith by example. Not even the best schools can do that work, and not even the worst can take it away.

I'm not saying I would want my children to be taught the Christian faith in public schools either. That is for the church and the family to teach. My point was that this is acceptable when it's the muslim faith but wouldn't be if it was Christian.

My wife and I do not yet have children. When we do I hope to be able to send them to Christian schools. However, we may or may not have the money to do so. The same is true for many families both Christian and non. So we now have many people who cannot afford private schools being indoctrinated into these liberal anti-Christian mindsets.

By the way. Where did you hear about this story? I heard it on the radio and I did not hear anything about the indoctrination parts of the classes being optional. I'd be interested to see your source.

 

[paulewog]

Seperatation of church and state (I don't think that phrase is IN the constitution by the way) is simply this - the government is not to force any religion... there is not to be an official religion, such as the Anglican Church was in England at that time.

It did NOT mean that you could not be a Christian and be in politics, or even hold to Christian morals, practice Christianity in a public place, etc.

 

[Susan]

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/byronislam.htm

And of special note:
"One veteran teacher told TruthOrFiction.com, however, that those kinds of suggested activities are commonly used by teachers and that he doesn't view them as being in the book in order to favor Islam. He said that there are similar suggestions in the sixth grade textbook including having the students discuss what role the Israelite's relationship with God played in the formation of their nation, explaining the covenant that the Israelites made with God, imagining being with the Jews when they were conquered by the Babylonians and forced into exile, discussing how Judaism and Christianity are related, how the teachings of Jesus were similar or different from those of other Jews, and doing a presentation of the differences of the religious views of the Sadducees and the Pharisees."

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by paulewog
Seperatation of church and state (I don't think that phrase is IN the constitution by the way) is simply this - the government is not to force any religion... there is not to be an official religion, such as the Anglican Church was in England at that time.

It did NOT mean that you could not be a Christian and be in politics, or even hold to Christian morals, practice Christianity in a public place, etc.

Seperation of church and state is not in the constitution, from what I heard on Dr. Dobsons "Focus on the Family" show. It was in a letter that Thomas Jefferson (I think) wrote. I don't know what he meant by it, or who he wrote it to.

 

[tericl2]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Seperation of church and state is not in the constitution, from what I heard on Dr. Dobsons "Focus on the Family" show. It was in a letter that Thomas Jefferson (I think) wrote. I don't know what he meant by it, or who he wrote it to.

Thomas Jefferson wrote the letter to the Danbury Baptists. It was in reply to the letter written to him by the Danbury Baptist Association. They were concerned about not having religious freedom except as a favor, not an inalienable right. You can read both letters here ---> Jefferson Letter

 

[ZiSunka]

I wouldn't want to live in a country in which the government was run by or united with any church. We are a people of freedom, as Christianity is a faith of freedom.