PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[rushingwind62]

Well, it is my wife's turn at the computer. I'll check in later. I am enjoying this friendly debate. I hope I have not offended anyone, it is not my intention to offend anyone. I think ALL of our views are important. I think there is much diversity in the body on many things and I find it interesting.

 

[pinetree]

Possession is internal.

Oppression, Obsession, Fear, and Depression are external administered by thoughts playing on emotions and feelings.

yup!

 

[KleinerApfel]

Possession is internal.

Oppression, Obsession, Fear, and Depression are external administered by thoughts playing on emotions and feelings.

But where do the thoughts come from? Thoughts are internal at the point where we become conscious of them.

Thoughts and feelings can come from a variety of sources, both external and internal, but may include evil spirits.

 

[Optimax]

But where do the thoughts come from? Thoughts are internal at the point where we become conscious of them.

Thoughts and feelings can come from a variety of sources, both external and internal, but may include evil spirits.

The names, depression, oppression, obsession and fear are names if the evil spirits that speak to us regarding those areas. We hear them as thoughts. They are external.

When we accept the condition there is a cycle of thoughts, just like with worry, whose objective is to lead through the process of oppression to obsession to depression to fear to "lost hope". This brings a person to the thoughts that Suicide speaks.

We as people, born again or not, have not, will not ever have an original thought.

We are "inspired" with thoughts, ideas, concepts that originate either from the Holy Spirit or the demonic.

The ones we chose to think on are the ones that shape our lives.

 

[Cassidy]

The names, depression, oppression, obsession and fear are names if the evil spirits that speak to us regarding those areas. We hear them as thoughts. They are external.

When we accept the condition there is a cycle of thoughts, just like with worry, whose objective is to lead through the process of oppression to obsession to depression to fear to "lost hope". This brings a person to the thoughts that Suicide speaks.

We as people, born again or not, have not, will not ever have an original thought.

We are "inspired" with thoughts, ideas, concepts that originate either from the Holy Spirit or the demonic.

The ones we chose to think on are the ones that shape our lives.

External!!! Thank you!!!! And these things that are spoken to us and come into our thoughts are LIES!!!

"You are not set free"
"There is no hope"
"You will not surely die"
"Jesus doesn't love you"

Just like in Adam's case! he was NEVER inhabited!!

So when one starts to think of these 'lies' (death) they start to 'speak them out' and as they 'speak them out' they start 'believing' the lies instead of the truth. They're life is then affected because they are living the lies.

But how does one come out of this.????

...well from my experience ...... I actually started speaking 'truths' out instead. And as I spoke these truths out, I started hearing them and faith comes by 'hearing'...hearing what? The word of God...which is what? TRUTH!!! (life) And as my faith grew I started believing and knowing who I am in Christ. And as I believed it it was reflected in my life!! NO ONE CAST ANY DEMONS OUT OF ME BECAUSE i DIDN'T HAVE ANY DEMONS IN ME TO BEGIN WITH. I wasn't delivered...because remember...I believed a lie (I am in bondage] instead of the truth "I'm set free"....so there was no deliverence becasue I was already delivered...I just didn't BELIEVE it!!!

 

[Optimax]

External!!! Thank you!!!! And these things that are spoken to us and come into our thoughts are LIES!!!

"You are not set free"
"There is no hope"
"You will not surely die"
"Jesus doesn't love you"

Just like in Adam's case! he was NEVER inhabited!!

So when one starts to think of these 'lies' (death) they start to 'speak them out' and as they 'speak them out' they start 'believing' the lies instead of the truth. They're life is then affected because they are living the lies.

But how does one come out of this.????

...well from my experience ...... I actually started speaking 'truths' out instead. And as I spoke these truths out, I started hearing them and faith comes by 'hearing'...hearing what? The word of God...which is what? TRUTH!!! (life) And as my faith grew I started believing and knowing who I am in Christ. And as I believed it it was reflected in my life!! NO ONE CAST ANY DEMONS OUT OF ME BECAUSE i DIDN'T HAVE ANY DEMONS IN ME TO BEGIN WITH. I wasn't delivered...because remember...I believed a lie (I am in bondage] instead of the truth "I'm set free"....so there was no deliverence becasue I was already delivered...I just didn't BELIEVE it!!!

WOW!! Well said.

 

[pinetree]

External!!! Thank you!!!! And these things that are spoken to us and come into our thoughts are LIES!!!

"You are not set free"
"There is no hope"
"You will not surely die"
"Jesus doesn't love you"

Just like in Adam's case! he was NEVER inhabited!!

So when one starts to think of these 'lies' (death) they start to 'speak them out' and as they 'speak them out' they start 'believing' the lies instead of the truth. They're life is then affected because they are living the lies.

But how does one come out of this.????

...well from my experience ...... I actually started speaking 'truths' out instead. And as I spoke these truths out, I started hearing them and faith comes by 'hearing'...hearing what? The word of God...which is what? TRUTH!!! (life) And as my faith grew I started believing and knowing who I am in Christ. And as I believed it it was reflected in my life!! NO ONE CAST ANY DEMONS OUT OF ME BECAUSE i DIDN'T HAVE ANY DEMONS IN ME TO BEGIN WITH. I wasn't delivered...because remember...I believed a lie (I am in bondage] instead of the truth "I'm set free"....so there was no deliverence becasue I was already delivered...I just didn't BELIEVE it!!!

 

[Tobias]

The essence of deliverance is simply saying "no" to satan. His whole scheme is to break down our will to say "no", and thus gaining the permission from us to hang out with us. We need to reprogram ourselves, unlearning if you will the lessons we were taught by the enemy to remove our willpower, and stand with confidence against him. At times we are powerless to do so on our own, and need Jesus to stand with us and remove the enemy for us. But long term, we have to learn the lessons of becoming overcomers.

Possession and oppression both work off of the same tricks of the enemy. This is why I say that it is hard to discern exactly where the dividing line is between them. I suppose one could say that possession happens when a person's control over their body is taken over by another spirit, but even so there are varying degrees of willing that to happen. Some relinquish control willingly, while others are forced. Usually willing offers to allow demonic spirits to take over soon turn into unwilling, out of control situations.

"Internal" and "External" are common terms to try to differentiate between possession and oppression; but they refer to physical locations which don't exactly translate into the spiritual realm. Does Jesus actually live in our organ known as the heart? Inside or outside of the body doesn't really define the amount of control a spirit has over said body. Just like with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, we decide how much we relinquish control over ourselves to any other spirit, demonic or Divine. The most obvious difference being the fact the the Holy Spirit is a Gentleman, and doesn't take anymore than what's offered willingly.

Freedom from Satan's influence comes by us first submitting to God, and second by resisting whatever it is that Satan is offering us. Many have been delivered from the grips of Satan through good ol' fashion Christian values, of standing firm in the faith and trusting God to see you through. It's not always necessary to know just how oppressed or possessed you are! God in His grace is the one who delivers us, when we apply the correct formula of submitting and resisting in our lives.

Deliverance ministry has gone wrong in thinking that it can bypass this formula. Thinking that by knowing about the demons, we can force them to stop doing their jobs and save ourselves from temptation and all that. But Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted. It was only after He listened to what Satan had to offer that He rebuked him and made him go away, and then only for a season. We must persevere through trials, not try to force them away.

By not resisting Satan though, we can start down the slippery slope toward possession. The more we say "yes" to the enemy, the more we become entangled in his traps. At which point oppression becomes possession; or where a Christian looses his "saved" status and becomes available for demonic inhabitation; is really all a matter of deeply technical Deliverance ministry information/opinion. It's not something I see as necessary for most of us to know. Even during a deliverance having this knowledge about the person is not necessary, as God does the work and knows just how deep the problems lay.

 

[Leimeng]

~ I am a Spirit and I am possessed by a Spirit. Are you?
~ I have a soul that has to be continually lined up with the Word of God, through reading of the Word, Prayer, Prayer in the Spirit, Fasting, Confession. (The diligent stuff that we dont want to do all the time.)
~ I have a fleshly body which has its own desires and basically wants to deal with the 'instant' instead of the eternal.
~ If I dont spend time ministering to my spirit, my spirit and relationship with the Holy Spirit suffers. If I meditate on garbage all the time like TV, porn, calvinism, anger, hate, lust, occult, etc, my soul suffers.
~ If I eat garbage all the time and dont sleep or exercise, my flesh suffers.
~ Given these basic concepts, I would suggest an alternative to the either/or debate that is going on.
~ Our spirits are the possession of God the Father and we are indwelt in the spirit by the Holy Spirit.
~ Our soul is something that we need to encourage with our spirit. If we fail to do so, our soul can be oppressed, but not possessed.
~ Our flesh needs to be bought under submission to our spirit, by (partially at least) building up our Spirit.
~ Even though healing was purchased for us on the Cross, that does not mean that we operated as healed beings.
~ Even though deliverance from sin was purchased for us at the Cross, that does not mean we do not sin.
~ We have been set free from all these things, it is our job as Christians to maintain our liberty as we recognize our freedom, and enforce the defeat of the devil.
~ Both our flesh and soul can be oppressed, but our spirit (if we are a born again believer that confesses Jesus as Lord) is already possessed and that ownership deed is pretty solid.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[Cassidy]

Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

I like that Funny!

Anyway I just feel that people are not clear on what oppression is. Like I feel that during my early walk in the Lord I was oppressed by a church that preached false doctrine. Was this the work of Satan?? I believe it was...he did not want me to grow and he kept me stunted in my growth via these lies.

He did not come into my soul or anything....it was all external. He used people to dictate their beliefs onto me and I, chose to believe them. So yes I was oppressed but not filled with any spirit...was I demonised?...sure, he really did do a good job....but I was not filled with, or enslaved by or captive by any demons. I was just not going anywhere in my walk.

So how did I get out of this? Well I felt a tug by the Holy spirit for the longest time. I was told that any doubts that I had was my flesh and that I wasn't walking right in the sight of God if this was the case...so I would ignore the Holy Spirit, time and again!!

Yes it was Satan...yes I can recognise this!! But one day the Holy spirit was so strong and the pull was that great that I ended up running away from home and from that church....since then, over the years I've had to learn how to grow. I had to learn how to recognise the Holy spirit teaching over man's teaching. I lived with man's teaching and their twisting of the scriptures so I can recognise it a lot more than I would had I not gone through this.

The experience has strengthen me so I don't have any bitterness from it all...I thank God that he brought me out and set me on the right path! I thank God that I can grow from this and be strengthened by it and can help others. No demon was ever cast out of me....no deliverance ministry had any say in how God worked in my life....and yet I'm now a living testament of overcoming oppression simply by allowing the Holy spirit to minister and by walking in HIS truth.

I know Satan has given up on that route now because I can't be oppressed that way anymore...but he does try in other areas! I'm well aware of this and when I feel Satan taking foot into how I'm thinking and feeling about myself and my relationship with my Father (externally) then I simply look to God, the author and finisher of my faith, and he flees! When I find myself walking after things of the flesh (which is MY doing not satans...although satan does tempt it ) I look to Christ again and his Grace takes over and I again, walk in the spirit.

Satan does not make me do anything, he tempts and lies and lures me to believe his lies but the fact that I can succumb to his lies is my choice....not Satans. Just like in Adam's case.

 

[Elijah2]

You must remember that when the scriptures were written ALL things became new. Because Jesus death on the cross changed everything. I do not know of any scriptures that say yea or nay concerning demon possession and the born again believer. But just because there are no scriptures to support something does not mean it doesn't happen. IMO to say someone is unlearned or doesn't know the scripture is both arrogant and judgmental. Everyone has their testimonies and testimonies are experiences. And everyone does not have the same experiences in life. Rather than ridicule someone and throw stones, I think it would be better if we encouraged them and helped them through their struggles, whatever those struggles may be.

Mate, I've been around the traps a long time, and I am no fool in regards to the demonic realm, and how they ensnare and influence CHristians today.

I've experience many demonised Christians, and as sad as it is, I have been in debates with Christians who think the same as the irrationalist who are posting their theory, about the same things that we are debating now. Then a few years later, you come across the Christian again, who was for the Christians cannot be demonised theology, and he found out that he was demonised and that was why he disagreed with anything and everything to do with the healing and deliverance ministry.

Have you ever read any books written by Derek Prince, Francis MacNutt, Charles Kraft, Neil Anderson, Kurt Koch, Peter Horrobin, John Sandford, Tom Dewar, and many more I could mention?

The point is, that if all the experiences I have had, are much the same as all those ministers above who served our Lord Jesus Christ in the healing and deliverance ministry, who healed the broken-hearts of Christians, delivered Christians from evil, set Christians free from captivity, bound their strongmen and broke down the walls of their strongholds, healed Christian's sicknesses, and cast out demons from Christians, then why would those who haven't experienced these signs and wonders, deliberately throw stones and to promote doubt and confusion in those who are still struggling with their past life of occultic, and satanic practices, and many emotional hurts from physical, and spiritual abuse and trauma, using the typical liberalised theology?

Sad as it is, some of these people need to get a spiritual life, and realise there are many hurting and struggling Christians out there who are suffering terrible from torment and harassment of demons, because they are a Christian, and they have no idea how to set themself free from demonisation.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Elijah2]

Those were my words and they are not judgmental.

The greatest fight we all have is the war between walking by faith and walking by the senses.

The items I posted were things I learned in my experience of life.

The word is always right no matter how other things like feelings, emotions, what people and other voices say, and PERSONAL EXPERIENCES say.

When the word says resist the devil and the devil will flee that is reality.

Some may say I resisted and he didn't flee. That is calling God a liar.

Therefore, either there was no resistance or the devil did flee. But because there was no corresponding feeling to verify the flight, the conclusion was that the devil did not flee.

The reason there was no resistance would be a lack of knowledge of what resisting the devil is. The word says that God's people perish for lack of knowledge.

Those were my words and they are not judgmental.

The greatest fight we all have is the war between walking by faith and walking by the senses.
Is walking by senses, commonsense?

Do you think that those who minister healing and deliverance don't walk by faith, mate. Tell met mate, when you have a demonic manifestation in a Christian and they start frothing from the mouth, and their face is twisted up and they are screaming at you, and then go as stiff as a board, and appears to be dead, please explain to me what part of your walk in faith and walk n sense would you use against this manifestation in the struggling Christian?

The items I posted were things I learned in my experience of life.
Exacty the same as I have posted on many ocassions on my experiences with demons in my Christian life.

The word is always right no matter how other things like feelings, emotions, what people and other voices say, and PERSONAL EXPERIENCES say.
Tell me mate, when you experience a personal life experiences, when you walk a path beside another person, same age, same walk, but everything goes the other person's way, but your way is full of darkness, rejections, and it's all like sand slipping through your fingers. And you yell out what did I do wrong.

You did nothing wrong, it's just that Satan and his forces have a role to play in your life.

So you then seek help, and a compassionated, mature Christian of the healing and deliverance ministry comes along and mentors you and counsels you, and brings you to understanding of the supernatural realm of darkness, and then as you confess and repent and ask for forgiveness for sins that you had forgotten. And then begin to forgive all those people who have cursed you and hurt you, and ask for forgiveness from those who you have cursed, and hurt, then you begin to feel all this heaviness lifting off you as you become free in our Lord Jesus Christ.

As you become more in touch with reality, and don't reject any understanding and knowledge of what the counsellor has shared with you, and when you thought you were perishing, you begin to see the truth of the counsellors advice and knowledge of demonisation, and you are set free by the truth.

When the word says resist the devil and the devil will flee that is reality.
Yes, that is so, but who is the devil? The devil is the demon or demons!

Some may say I resisted and he didn't flee. That is calling God a liar.
Nobody in the healing and deliverance ministry have ever called our Lord Jesus Christ or made HIM appear to be a liar!

Therefore, either there was no resistance or the devil did flee.
Mate when a devil (demon) flees is because the "house", "soul" of a Christian is beginning to receive inner healing as:

their broken-heart is healed;

they confessed, repent their sin for allowing themself to be broken-hearted through their hurts, offences, rejections, anger, bitterness, resentfulness, pride, unforgiveness, rebellion, and all those emotional feelings from their past life of hurts, offences, abuse and traumas;

they are set free from their captivity and the walls of their habitual strongholds begin to crumple;

they are healed of their sicknesses;

they overcome and conquer all their carnal mind, pride, and will;

they begin to transform and renew their heart.

Then after that as their "house" is filled, cleansed, and walking in obedience and discipline with His Word, and our Lord Jesus Christ through good mentoring and counselling by the compassionate, mature Christian of the healing and deliverance ministry, THEN only then are they submitted and the enemy will flee.

But, the enemy will return later on, walking around like a roaring lion seeking that person they had left to see if they can ensnare them once again through other Christians, so they can take up residences in their "house" once again. They usually slip in unnoticed, and when that happens then it becomes harder to help those CHristians and bring them to freedom again.

But because there was no corresponding feeling to verify the flight, the conclusion was that the devil did not flee.
Yes, this is so with many Christians, because normally they haven't confessed and repented a deep-down secret that they won't share with another person.

The reason there was no resistance would be a lack of knowledge of what resisting the devil is. The word says that God's people perish for lack of knowledge.
Mate, this lack of knowledge and understanding comes because they REJECT knowledge and understanding.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[rushingwind62]

Mate, I've been around the traps a long time, and I am no fool in regards to the demonic realm, and how they ensnare and influence CHristians today.

I've experience many demonised Christians, and as sad as it is, I have been in debates with Christians who think the same as the irrationalist who are posting their theory, about the same things that we are debating now. Then a few years later, you come across the Christian again, who was for the Christians cannot be demonised theology, and he found out that he was demonised and that was why he disagreed with anything and everything to do with the healing and deliverance ministry.

Have you ever read any books written by Derek Prince, Francis MacNutt, Charles Kraft, Neil Anderson, Kurt Koch, Peter Horrobin, John Sandford, Tom Dewar, and many more I could mention?

The point is, that if all the experiences I have had, are much the same as all those ministers above who served our Lord Jesus Christ in the healing and deliverance ministry, who healed the broken-hearts of Christians, delivered Christians from evil, set Christians free from captivity, bound their strongmen and broke down the walls of their strongholds, healed Christian's sicknesses, and cast out demons from Christians, then why would those who haven't experienced these signs and wonders, deliberately throw stones and to promote doubt and confusion in those who are still struggling with their past life of occultic, and satanic practices, and many emotional hurts from physical, and spiritual abuse and trauma, using the typical liberalised theology?

Sad as it is, some of these people need to get a spiritual life, and realise there are many hurting and struggling Christians out there who are suffering terrible from torment and harassment of demons, because they are a Christian, and they have no idea how to set themself free from demonisation.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

I hear ya, brother. I have not read any of those books. But like you, I have been a Christian for many years and seen just how sly the devil is. I think what many don't understand is that he (satan) feds on the weak, on the new born babes in Christ, on those who are not well rooted or mature in Christ. Many forget that our walk is a progression and we do not learn to defend ourselves all at once. One does not take their baby into the woods, and give it to the wolves, and yell, Defend yourself at it. Why? Because the baby has no defenses. Yet that is what many seem to do with our new born brothers and sisters in Christ. That in itself is satan at work in their lives.He does anything he can and uses anyone he can to worm his way into our lives to decieve all that he can. I have seen satan and his horde work their ways into many lives, even into the lives of ministers. I have seen churches split and seen them fall becasuse of their deceit. But hey, that is just my experiences and according to some here my experiences and your experiences aren't worth diddly. And that is a shame.

 

[Elijah2]

I hear ya, brother. I have not read any of those books. But like you, I have been a Christian for many years and seen just how sly the devil is. I think what many don't understand is that he (satan) feds on the weak, on the new born babes in Christ, on those who are not well rooted or mature in Christ. Many forget that our walk is a progression and we do not learn to defend ourselves all at once. One does not take their baby into the woods, and give it to the wolves, and yell, Defend yourself at it. Why? Because the baby has no defenses. Yet that is what many seem to do with our new born brothers and sisters in Christ. That in itself is satan at work in their lives.He does anything he can and uses anyone he can to worm his way into our lives to decieve all that he can. I have seen satan and his horde work their ways into many lives, even into the lives of ministers. I have seen churches split and seen them fall becasuse of their deceit. But hey, that is just my experiences and according to some here my experiences and your experiences aren't worth diddly. And that is a shame.

Mate, I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said, because they are the same things that I've experienced.

I've seen many churches destroyed by Satan's forces and servants in those churches. I've seen pastors fall, and hear their followers say: "But we never knew that they were struggling!" Well, you didn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that their pastor was living in sin, and was teaching a false message of our Lord Jesus Christ, and was self-centred and not Christ-centred.

I am now wondering what has happened to a lot of those pastors I know who belong to the prosperity faith, after this terrible fall throughout the world how prosperous they are now. The reason why I say that is because many of them I have come across are so false, and they have been leading His Sheep up a garden path, just to make themself rich. And the reason why they are there and like that is because they believed that a Christian cannot have a demon, and they wouldn't accept that they were seduced and deceived by the doctrine of demons, and the spirit of mammon.

It's sad mate that so many believers make hard work out of His Simple Inspired Word. All we have to do is to tend and feed His Sheep so that they will be kept free, and not hold them to ransome through a bachelor degree of head knowledge.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[pinetree]

scripture anyone?

This is a freefloating,unwritten doctrine!

Teaching that Christians can be possessed or inhabited!

E2,you do post alot of scripture on alot of other topics,when you want to prove your point..

Ok,fine,but here there has not been any,other than bible bingo,connecting the dots,scriptural stretching...and twisting..

Thanks Matey,I understansd we get fiesty together, but it is ok,,we are bros!

I love ya!

 

[pinetree]

The essence of deliverance is simply saying "no" to satan. His whole scheme is to break down our will to say "no", and thus gaining the permission from us to hang out with us. We need to reprogram ourselves, unlearning if you will the lessons we were taught by the enemy to remove our willpower, and stand with confidence against him. At times we are powerless to do so on our own, and need Jesus to stand with us and remove the enemy for us. But long term, we have to learn the lessons of becoming overcomers.

Possession and oppression both work off of the same tricks of the enemy. This is why I say that it is hard to discern exactly where the dividing line is between them. I suppose one could say that possession happens when a person's control over their body is taken over by another spirit, but even so there are varying degrees of willing that to happen. Some relinquish control willingly, while others are forced. Usually willing offers to allow demonic spirits to take over soon turn into unwilling, out of control situations.

"Internal" and "External" are common terms to try to differentiate between possession and oppression; but they refer to physical locations which don't exactly translate into the spiritual realm. Does Jesus actually live in our organ known as the heart? Inside or outside of the body doesn't really define the amount of control a spirit has over said body. Just like with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, we decide how much we relinquish control over ourselves to any other spirit, demonic or Divine. The most obvious difference being the fact the the Holy Spirit is a Gentleman, and doesn't take anymore than what's offered willingly.

Freedom from Satan's influence comes by us first submitting to God, and second by resisting whatever it is that Satan is offering us. Many have been delivered from the grips of Satan through good ol' fashion Christian values, of standing firm in the faith and trusting God to see you through. It's not always necessary to know just how oppressed or possessed you are! God in His grace is the one who delivers us, when we apply the correct formula of submitting and resisting in our lives.

Deliverance ministry has gone wrong in thinking that it can bypass this formula. Thinking that by knowing about the demons, we can force them to stop doing their jobs and save ourselves from temptation and all that. But Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted. It was only after He listened to what Satan had to offer that He rebuked him and made him go away, and then only for a season. We must persevere through trials, not try to force them away.

By not resisting Satan though, we can start down the slippery slope toward possession. The more we say "yes" to the enemy, the more we become entangled in his traps. At which point oppression becomes possession; or where a Christian looses his "saved" status and becomes available for demonic inhabitation; is really all a matter of deeply technical Deliverance ministry information/opinion. It's not something I see as necessary for most of us to know. Even during a deliverance having this knowledge about the person is not necessary, as God does the work and knows just how deep the problems lay.

Thank you for your post,it was an interesting read..

But can you please post scripture to prove that a Spirit filled Christian can be possessed,or inhabited..

Thanks!

 

[RevKidd]

What scripture would we need? If the Bible is not specific on a certain category, then what we can use are principles taught in scripture.

Light and Dark can not co-exist. Bottom line. If we place the Holy Spirit on the same level with God and Christ, and is equal in the Trinity, then how can a believer being filled with the spirit, have a lesser spirit possessing them. It is theologically and spiritually impossible.

I think what we have are people contributing to satan, that which is merely a lust or a problem with our flesh. Folks, sin is sin. Would you consider someone who is a habitual lier to be possessed. Would you consider someone who is fat and has an eating problem to be possessed by a gluttony demon? We all have our "demons". We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

That does not mean there is a demon lurking behind every corner and behind every bush waiting to pounce on you. In fact we, as Christians, who should be the victors, give Satan, a very defeated foe, way to much credit.

Satan is not omnipresent
Satan is not omniscient
Satan is not omnipotent
YET, we almost talk, teach, disciple people as if satan is the all power evil creature.

Christ told Peter that Satan desired to sift him like wheat, then Christ said I am praying for you. Peter was sifted, Peter was tested. Peter may have failed the test, but remember, Christ was praying for Peter. Christ, is our mediator and our intercesor just as he was for Peter. So in fact, God uses Satan sometimes to test us, to strengthen us, to Sift us. Peter could have allowed his failure to demise his destiny to be the rock of the Church. Christ could have moved on without Peter. Instead, Christ, knowing that Peter was strengthened, tells Peter to "Feed my sheep".

So as Christians, we maybe tested, sifted, put through the stringer. And as Peter, we may fall. And this can be at the hands of the enemy, but Christ is praying for us. He is interceding before us, so that we can get right up and continue to "feed His Sheep".

 

[Optimax]

Those were my words and they are not judgmental.

The greatest fight we all have is the war between walking by faith and walking by the senses.
Is walking by senses, commonsense?

Do you think that those who minister healing and deliverance don't walk by faith, mate. Tell met mate, when you have a demonic manifestation in a Christian and they start frothing from the mouth, and their face is twisted up and they are screaming at you, and then go as stiff as a board, and appears to be dead, please explain to me what part of your walk in faith and walk n sense would you use against this manifestation in the struggling Christian?

The items I posted were things I learned in my experience of life.
Exacty the same as I have posted on many ocassions on my experiences with demons in my Christian life.

The word is always right no matter how other things like feelings, emotions, what people and other voices say, and PERSONAL EXPERIENCES say.
Tell me mate, when you experience a personal life experiences, when you walk a path beside another person, same age, same walk, but everything goes the other person's way, but your way is full of darkness, rejections, and it's all like sand slipping through your fingers. And you yell out what did I do wrong.

You did nothing wrong, it's just that Satan and his forces have a role to play in your life.

So you then seek help, and a compassionated, mature Christian of the healing and deliverance ministry comes along and mentors you and counsels you, and brings you to understanding of the supernatural realm of darkness, and then as you confess and repent and ask for forgiveness for sins that you had forgotten. And then begin to forgive all those people who have cursed you and hurt you, and ask for forgiveness from those who you have cursed, and hurt, then you begin to feel all this heaviness lifting off you as you become free in our Lord Jesus Christ.

As you become more in touch with reality, and don't reject any understanding and knowledge of what the counsellor has shared with you, and when you thought you were perishing, you begin to see the truth of the counsellors advice and knowledge of demonisation, and you are set free by the truth.

When the word says resist the devil and the devil will flee that is reality.
Yes, that is so, but who is the devil? The devil is the demon or demons!

Some may say I resisted and he didn't flee. That is calling God a liar.
Nobody in the healing and deliverance ministry have ever called our Lord Jesus Christ or made HIM appear to be a liar!

Therefore, either there was no resistance or the devil did flee.
Mate when a devil (demon) flees is because the "house", "soul" of a Christian is beginning to receive inner healing as:

their broken-heart is healed;

they confessed, repent their sin for allowing themself to be broken-hearted through their hurts, offences, rejections, anger, bitterness, resentfulness, pride, unforgiveness, rebellion, and all those emotional feelings from their past life of hurts, offences, abuse and traumas;

they are set free from their captivity and the walls of their habitual strongholds begin to crumple;

they are healed of their sicknesses;

they overcome and conquer all their carnal mind, pride, and will;

they begin to transform and renew their heart.

Then after that as their "house" is filled, cleansed, and walking in obedience and discipline with His Word, and our Lord Jesus Christ through good mentoring and counselling by the compassionate, mature Christian of the healing and deliverance ministry, THEN only then are they submitted and the enemy will flee.

But, the enemy will return later on, walking around like a roaring lion seeking that person they had left to see if they can ensnare them once again through other Christians, so they can take up residences in their "house" once again. They usually slip in unnoticed, and when that happens then it becomes harder to help those CHristians and bring them to freedom again.

But because there was no corresponding feeling to verify the flight, the conclusion was that the devil did not flee.
Yes, this is so with many Christians, because normally they haven't confessed and repented a deep-down secret that they won't share with another person.

The reason there was no resistance would be a lack of knowledge of what resisting the devil is. The word says that God's people perish for lack of knowledge.
Mate, this lack of knowledge and understanding comes because they REJECT knowledge and understanding.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

You seem rather annoyed there mate.

 

[pinetree]

What scripture would we need? If the Bible is not specific on a certain category, then what we can use are principles taught in scripture.

Light and Dark can not co-exist. Bottom line. If we place the Holy Spirit on the same level with God and Christ, and is equal in the Trinity, then how can a believer being filled with the spirit, have a lesser spirit possessing them. It is theologically and spiritually impossible.

I think what we have are people contributing to satan, that which is merely a lust or a problem with our flesh. Folks, sin is sin. Would you consider someone who is a habitual lier to be possessed. Would you consider someone who is fat and has an eating problem to be possessed by a gluttony demon? We all have our "demons". We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

That does not mean there is a demon lurking behind every corner and behind every bush waiting to pounce on you. In fact we, as Christians, who should be the victors, give Satan, a very defeated foe, way to much credit.

Satan is not omnipresent
Satan is not omniscient
Satan is not omnipotent
YET, we almost talk, teach, disciple people as if satan is the all power evil creature.

Christ told Peter that Satan desired to sift him like wheat, then Christ said I am praying for you. Peter was sifted, Peter was tested. Peter may have failed the test, but remember, Christ was praying for Peter. Christ, is our mediator and our intercesor just as he was for Peter. So in fact, God uses Satan sometimes to test us, to strengthen us, to Sift us. Peter could have allowed his failure to demise his destiny to be the rock of the Church. Christ could have moved on without Peter. Instead, Christ, knowing that Peter was strengthened, tells Peter to "Feed my sheep".

So as Christians, we maybe tested, sifted, put through the stringer. And as Peter, we may fall. And this can be at the hands of the enemy, but Christ is praying for us. He is interceding before us, so that we can get right up and continue to "feed His Sheep".

EXCELLENT,EXCELLENT POST!

 

[map4]

I like that Funny!

Anyway I just feel that people are not clear on what oppression is. Like I feel that during my early walk in the Lord I was oppressed by a church that preached false doctrine. Was this the work of Satan?? I believe it was...he did not want me to grow and he kept me stunted in my growth via these lies.

He did not come into my soul or anything....it was all external. He used people to dictate their beliefs onto me and I, chose to believe them. So yes I was oppressed but not filled with any spirit...was I demonised?...sure, he really did do a good job....but I was not filled with, or enslaved by or captive by any demons. I was just not going anywhere in my walk.

So how did I get out of this? Well I felt a tug by the Holy spirit for the longest time. I was told that any doubts that I had was my flesh and that I wasn't walking right in the sight of God if this was the case...so I would ignore the Holy Spirit, time and again!!

Yes it was Satan...yes I can recognise this!! But one day the Holy spirit was so strong and the pull was that great that I ended up running away from home and from that church....since then, over the years I've had to learn how to grow. I had to learn how to recognise the Holy spirit teaching over man's teaching. I lived with man's teaching and their twisting of the scriptures so I can recognise it a lot more than I would had I not gone through this.

The experience has strengthen me so I don't have any bitterness from it all...I thank God that he brought me out and set me on the right path! I thank God that I can grow from this and be strengthened by it and can help others. No demon was ever cast out of me....no deliverance ministry had any say in how God worked in my life....and yet I'm now a living testament of overcoming oppression simply by allowing the Holy spirit to minister and by walking in HIS truth.

I know Satan has given up on that route now because I can't be oppressed that way anymore...but he does try in other areas! I'm well aware of this and when I feel Satan taking foot into how I'm thinking and feeling about myself and my relationship with my Father (externally) then I simply look to God, the author and finisher of my faith, and he flees! When I find myself walking after things of the flesh (which is MY doing not satans...although satan does tempt it ) I look to Christ again and his Grace takes over and I again, walk in the spirit.

Satan does not make me do anything, he tempts and lies and lures me to believe his lies but the fact that I can succumb to his lies is my choice....not Satans. Just like in Adam's case.

Excellent post!