PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[KleinerApfel]

Thank you Elijah2, for this excellent explanation of how deliverance and healing remain vital ministries for both those already in the faith and those yet to know Him.

 

[irenemcg]

Over the past decades on occasions during a Sunday service, a member of a congregation, or on many occasions during a healing seminar members who have attended have manifested a demon or demons. In some cases they have let out a blood curdling shriek and collapsed just in front of the pulpit or were they were standing or sitting. On those occasions the minister leading the congregation or meeting had to make a split-second decision. On a number occasions I have had been in the same position.

In those occasions, the ministers had called upon the help from others, such as mature Christians, to help them to cast out the demon or demons (unclean, unholy, evil spirit or spirits) in Jesus’ Name. In my own experiences I had no other mature Christian to help. Those experiences of those incidents are probably the reason for them being involved into an intensive study of the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ, and like myself brought me to the realisation that a Christian can be demonised.

In Mark 1:21-28 we discovered that a demon challenged our Lord Jesus Christ as HE was teaching in a synagogue in Galilee, and this encounter brought much attention to HIM immediately throughout Galilee. In those occasions of manifestations at Sunday services and healing seminar, and my own experiences we could see that HIS ministry was dealing with healings and demons, and wherever He encountered them, HE dealt with them in authority and power.

In Luke 13:32, our Lord Jesus Christ sent a message to Herod informing him that He would continue to “cast out demons and perform cures”, and HE passed that ministry onto His Disciples until His earthly task were completed. And that was the same for His Disciples as they passed that ministry onto those who followed the, until their earthly task were completed.

“And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” (Mark 16:17-18)

Our Lord Jesus Christ’s ministry didn’t end there, because when HE commissioned His Disciples and followers, HE also transmitted HIS authority to them, and in turn they transmitted HIS authority to those who followed them, as they “taught them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matt. 28:20), “and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His Name” (Luke 24:47), “until you are endued with power” (Luke 24:49).

Our Lord Jesus Christ never sent anyone out to preach the Gospel without specifically instructing and equipping them to take action against demons in the same way that He Himself did.


All ministers of the healing and deliverance ministry can find no basis anywhere in the New Testament for an evangelistic ministry that does not include the casting out of demons, and for them to believe that a Christian cannot have demons. This is as true today as it was in our Lord Jesus Christ’s and His Disciples ministry.

Over the past few decades, ministers in the healing and deliverance ministry have experienced special opposition to this ministry through the influence from Satan, Satan’s forces, and Satan’s servants. Satan is the “angel of light”, he is the “father of lies”, he is a “creature of darkness”, and his activities seduce and deceive those Christians through false teaching and the “doctrine of demons”. Through Satan’s manipulation, seduction, and deception he ensures that the true nature of his activities are concealed.

If he can keep humanity unaware of his tactics, or even of his very existence, then he can use ignorance and fear to open the way for his destructive purposes through his forces and servants. We know that ignorance and fear isn’t confined to non-Christians, and has been working on the inside of most churches for the past three decades. Far too often these days, Christians have treated demons with superstitious dread, as if they are in the same category as ghosts or dragons, being a complete fabrication of fantasy. Corrie ten Boom commented that the fear of demons is from the demons themselves, and many fob “demonisation” off as non-Biblical.

Our Lord Jesus Christ approached HIS Ministry with extreme practicality in His dealings with demons. At the same time, He emphasized the unique significance of HIS ministry of casting out of demons: “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you” (Matt. 12:28).

The casting out demons demonstrates two important spiritual truths by revealing the existence of two opposing spiritual kingdoms (the Kingdom of God/Light and the kingdom of Satan/Darkness); and demonstrating the victory of God’s Kingdom of light, over Satan’s kingdom of darkness.

Today, many try their hardest to ignore HIS Ministry, as many western Evangelists practice those beliefs that demons don’t exist, and Christians cannot be demonised, which isn’t New Testament evangelism. Many pray for the sick, and it’s unscriptural to pray for the sick if one is not prepared to also cast out demons. Our Lord Jesus Christ didn’t separate one from the other, as healing and deliverance came in as one.

But, as sad as it is, there are some in the healing and deliverance ministry, who carry out the practice of casting out demons to unscriptural extremes. They claim that any physical, emotional or spiritual problem is treated as demonic, which is unbalanced and unscriptural and unethical. At the same time, there are good, but proud men and women of God who give more prominence to their own ministry, instead of our Lord Jesus Christ’s ministry.

Over the past three decades, we have seen the evidence of Satan's special and intense opposition to the healing and deliverance ministry, by “seeking like a roaring lion to devour” any healing and deliverance ministry by excluding such ministry altogether from the ministry within most churches; and in failing that, Satan, his forces, and his servants will go all out in their aim is to discredit the ministry in all possible ways and means.

On most occasions, ministers and His Disciples didn’t volunteer for this ministry, but were lead there through confronting circumstances and situations in which we were forced to choose by the leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit: taking action against the demons; or backing down and giving way to them, as in the case of many who have done so. Looking back, like most in the healing and deliverance ministry they chose not to back down.

The primary motive and objective in God-anointed healing and deliverance ministry is to help Christians in the understanding and knowledge in the ways that they were helped in recognising the many struggling Christians who were under demonic influence and oppression, who endured the diverse degrees of torment and harassment that demons inflicted upon Christians, who didn’t know how to be set free from captivity. In some cases, the mental, emotional and physical torment is so severe that many Christians feel as though they are imprisoned and tortured, and through the non-demonisation belief of some Christians, they are unable to offer any hope and release from the bondage that those struggling Christians are experiencing.

Many Christians can identify with those who are struggling, as they matured they were also tormented and harassed by uncontrollable bouts of depression and many of them, including ministers were tempted to give up their Christian walk and ministry completely. But many of them, when confronted by Christians who needed help, and because of their doctrinal preconceptions and uncertainties, they finally resorted to helping those many Christians who were struggling from demonic influence and oppression by demons.

Many in the healing and deliverance ministry can look back over their ministry, and find that hardly anytime goes by that they are involved in helping a Christian to be healed, and in need of deliverance from demons. Even though the ministry has provoked misunderstanding and criticism from other Christians, but this is far outweighed by the satisfaction of helping those desperate, struggling Christians.

How many times we can hear ministry team members share of people who approach them saying that they were demonised and claimed that there was no hope for them, then they met up with the minister or were given their ministry tapes on healing and deliverance, and they claimed that they were set free from captivity, as a great shadow lifted off them as if they had been confined to a wheelchair or bed for their early life as a Christian. Testimonies like this are many, and ministry team members never backed down before criticism and opposition of this vital ministry.

Our personal experience over the years of ministry and through the many “signs and wonders” has reinforced our confidence in the accuracy of Scripture; even thought there are many Liberal theologians often suggest that demonic activity isn’t to be taken literally, which is no more than superstitious ignorance.

There are many Christians who have experienced and witnessed demonic manifestations that are exactly in line with the descriptions in Scripture.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Amen!

 

[irenemcg]

In my early days after receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit because of viewpoints of others, mainly my own father and even later my husband I suppressed tongues and the Holy Spirit within me, and even doubted if my tongue language was real, and during prayer ministry at a Pentecostal Church I was set free as a spirit of confusion left me and the difference it made was wonderful. That was a number of years ago but I still remember the wonderful release I had and how the scriptures came so alive and the meaning became clear.

 

[pinetree]

No, that is so, because that word didn't come into being for many years after our Lord Jesus Christ ministry. They were referred to as "man"!

“Spirit-filled Christian” was NEVER USED in the KJV and the only time CHRISTIAN was used in the KJV are the following Scriptures.

A Bible search remarks said: “Sorry. No results found for "Spirit-filled Christian" in Keyword Search for KJV and NKJV.”

Acts 11:26
“And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.”

Acts 26:28
“Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.”


1 Peter 4:16
“Yet if any MAN suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.”

The above Scriptures also show “Christian” in the NKJV, and the following are shown as a “heading” of the following chapters.

Colossians 3:18
Rules for Christian Households

“ Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.”

1 Peter 4:12
Suffering for Being a Christian

“ Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.”

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

That is a total stretch!
ya know,we are buddies,but that is a stretch..really...

 

[pinetree]

Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you; “And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons (spirits); they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover” (Mark 16:17-18); “Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits (demons) are subject to you” (Luke 10:20); and “When an unclean spirit goes out (cast out) of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it swept and put in order. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.” (Luke 11:24-26)

Now these verses don't speak about "experiences", but truthful FACTS.

So what point are you trying make?

The verses above are specific: "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons (spirits); they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover”

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

sorry,matey,none of those are about Spirit filled believers,,,

do you have any other scriptures?

 

[pinetree]

There is not a nickles worth of scriptural proof coming forth,that a Chritian can be inhabited..

All those stories in the Gospel,when read in proper context,were ALL unsaved people..

Sure,then they got saved,,great!

This is all a bunch of bible bingo,and connecting the dots!

 

[Optimax]

Ya know what?

Everyone of us has to make this decision in every area of life experiences:

Will I believe what my senses (feelings, emotions, what I see, what I hear from multiple sources) tell me.

Or will I believe what God is telling me through His Word.

We are a sense ruled people. We got that from Adam.

The "biggest" challenge for us as Christians is to get to the place where we will ignore what our senses are screaming at us and believe what God is telling us from His Word.

Yes, there are questions like should I do this or that, that may not be specifically answered by scripture(s).

However reading the word and listening to that still small voice with patience and peace will lead us to God's will for our lives in those areas.

As far as the subject of a Christian being demon possessed what does scripture say about us and the devil.

Jas 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
KJV

Now, this scripture tells us how to get rid of the devil. If we get rid of him we get rid of any demonic influence influence as well.

So, any Christian that believes they or others have demon problems either:

Does not know about this scripture.

Does not understand how to resist the devil.

Choses to believe the senses rather than the Word.

Will not put forth the effort to resist the devil.

A pet theory or "ministry" that is being protected/defended as their identity is tied to the theory and/or "ministry". In order to admit that the word is true they would have to admit they are wrong, which would require an identity change. Not realizing that another important step in real Christian growth is identifying with God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, through God's Word as God and His Word are One.

Result being they are subject to harassment but not possession.

God has given us His word to deal with any and all issues of life. Meditation on the word day and night means the word is what is considered first in any situation.

This is made possible by the continual reading and thinking about the word so that when any situation or question arises we think what the word says about it, not what the senses (feelings, emotions, what I see, what I hear from multiple sources) tell me.

Now we will hear a big uproar from those protecting and/or defending.

 

[pinetree]

Ya know what?

Everyone of us has to make this decision in every area of life experiences:

Will I believe what my senses (feelings, emotions, what I see, what I hear from multiple sources) tell me.

Or will I believe what God is telling me through His Word.

We are a sense ruled people. We got that from Adam.

The "biggest" challenge for us as Christians is to get to the place where we will ignore what our senses are screaming at us and believe what God is telling us from His Word.

Yes, there are questions like should I do this or that, that may not be specifically answered by scripture(s).

However reading the word and listening to that still small voice with patience and peace will lead us to God's will for our lives in those areas.

As far as the subject of a Christian being demon possessed what does scripture say about us and the devil.

Jas 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
KJV

Now, this scripture tells us how to get rid of the devil. If we get rid of him we get rid of any demonic influence influence as well.

So, any Christian that believes they or others have demon problems either:

Does not know about this scripture.

Does not understand how to resist the devil.

Choses to believe the senses rather than the Word.

Will not put forth the effort to resist the devil.

A pet theory or "ministry" that is being protected/defended as their identity is tied to the theory and/or "ministry". In order to admit that the word is true they would have to admit they are wrong, which would require an identity change. Not realizing that another important step in real Christian growth is identifying with God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, through God's Word as God and His Word are One.

Result being they are subject to harassment but not possession.

God has given us His word to deal with any and all issues of life. Meditation on the word day and night means the word is what is considered first in any situation.

This is made possible by the continual reading and thinking about the word so that when any situation or question arises we think what the word says about it, not what the senses (feelings, emotions, what I see, what I hear from multiple sources) tell me.

Now we will hear a big uproar from those protecting and/or defending.

excellent,excellent post!

So true,about our senses,,they can feel very strong,but not be true.

Good point also,about deliverance ministries..

Really,so far on the thread,we are just hearing from their playbook!

Thank you!

Now I really am going to come fishing,and have you feed me enchiladas!

 

[rushingwind62]

Ya' know, GOD gave us eyes, feelings, emotions, common sense, and a brain! Did HE give us these things and not want us to use them? Somethings are not talked about in scripture or made clear. If everything was talked about in scripture, the bible would be the size of our homes or probably much larger. Look in the last ch of John, the writer writes, "Jesus did many other things which are not written here." So we only caught a glimpse of Jesus in the written word. LIFE is full of many unexplained things and just because they are unexplained or not in God's word does not mean they don't exsist or that something doesn't happen. Whether it be from demon possession of a believer or to someone who has two sets of DNA in their body. I believe we are to live a balanced life and in my opinion too many are so Heavenly minded that they are no earthly good.

 

[pinetree]

Ya' know, GOD gave us eyes, feelings, emotions, common sense, and a brain! Did HE give us these things and not want us to use them? Somethings are not talked about in scripture or made clear. If everything was talked about in scripture, the bible would be the size of our homes or probably much larger. Look in the last ch of John, the writer writes, "Jesus did many other things which are not written here." So we only caught a glimpse of Jesus in the written word. LIFE is full of many unexplained things and just because they are unexplained or not in God's word does not mean they don't exsist or that something doesn't happen. Whether it be from demon possession of a believer or to someone who has two sets of DNA in their body. I believe we are to live a balanced life and in my opinion too many are so Heavenly minded that they are no earthly good.

Thats a fair point..

I have often quoted that verse myself,that Jesus said and did more..

But so far,on the thread,we are just seeing the deliverance ministries teachings..

Some of the very supporters of the unwritten doctrine,often quote alot of scripture when talking about other subjects here..

Yet,on this thread,there is an eerie scriptural silence...

Thanks for posting..

 

[pinetree]

Another great problem with the idea that demons may possess Christians is a concept that erodes
faith and waters down our concept of God and the salvation He provides. God is our Father. He has
“rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves”
(Colossians1:13). In “this darkness we used to live when [we] followed the ways of this world and of
the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient”
(Ephesians 2:2). But now God by His love has saved us and made us “fellow citizens with God’s
people and members of God’s household” (Ephesians 2:19). It would seem contradictory for demons
to indwell our bodies now that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.

 

[AudioArtist]

Thank you for your post, Elijah2.

rushingwind62, you also raised some good points. Sure, the Bible doesn't say explicitly that a Christian can be demonized, or give a specific example of a Christian being demonized (although it does warn Christians specifically that the Devil is a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour...) but then it doesn't say who can and can't be demonized, and it does actually give an examples of Jews being demonzied (the woman Jesus described as a 'child of Abraham', for example.)

The ONLY solid facts on this we can get from the Bible is there are demons who do afflict people and can be cast out in Jesus' name. Anything beyond this is the opinions of men. And, considering there are those who have actually stepped out in faith and been used by God to deliver Christians from demons today, and considering that people I trust greatly who are Christians have claimed to be set free from things by deliverance, I'm going to believe that Christians can be demonized. These people have trusted Jesus and seen real results through the power of the Spirit, whereas others who oppose the idea that Christians can be demonized are going by theological arguments (and theological arguments are also used to dispel the idea that the gifts of the Spirit can be used today, or that demons even exist in the first place). The Bible is something to be obeyed and lived, and the Spirit something we listen to situation by situation; it is not a matter of abstract arguments. I don't understand why God let's Christians experience the demonic attacks of Satan (just as I don't understand why many Christians have to endure physical and mental illnesses and many other tragedies), but they still go on, and people are sill freed from their terrible grasp and healed.

 

[rushingwind62]

Thats a fair point..

I have often quoted that verse myself,that Jesus said and did more..

But so far,on the thread,we are just seeing the deliverance ministries teachings..

Some of the very supporters of the unwritten doctrine,often quote alot of scripture when talking about other subjects here..

Yet,on this thread,there is an eerie scriptural silence...

Thanks for posting..

You must remember that when the scriptures were written ALL things became new. Because Jesus death on the cross changed everything. I do not know of any scriptures that say yea or nay concerning demon possession and the born again believer. But just because there are no scriptures to support something does not mean it doesn't happen. IMO to say someone is unlearned or doesn't know the scripture is both arrogant and judgmental. Everyone has their testimonies and testimonies are experiences. And everyone does not have the same experiences in life. Rather than ridicule someone and throw stones, I think it would be better if we encouraged them and helped them through their struggles, whatever those struggles may be.

 

[pinetree]

You must remember that when the scriptures were written ALL things became new. Because Jesus death on the cross changed everything. I do not know of any scriptures that say yea or nay concerning demon possession and the born again believer. But just because there are no scriptures to support something does not mean it doesn't happen. IMO to say someone is unlearned or doesn't know the scripture is both arrogant and judgmental. Everyone has their testimonies and testimonies are experiences. And everyone does not have the same experiences in life. Rather than ridicule someone and throw stones, I think it would be better if we encouraged them and helped them through their struggles, whatever those struggles may be.

Maybe you misunderstood me..

But I never thought,or said the above part in your post..im blue.

I understand that new scripture was being written..

But now we do have it..

And all I am asking is for this..

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

Not unwritten deliverance ministries views..

Thank you.

 

[rushingwind62]

So, any Christian that believes they or others have demon problems either:

Does not know about this scripture.

Does not understand how to resist the devil.

Choses to believe the senses rather than the Word.

Will not put forth the effort to resist the devil.

These were your words

 

[pinetree]

Interesting note..
Paul taught so much,about alot of issues..

Church discipline, church government, gifts, behavior of leaders, living under New Covenant as opposes to old Covenant, order in church meetings, spiritual warfare.

Paul even went into the third heaven! Yet in his writings there is never a mention of Christians being inhabited. You would think in all Paul's teachings on the life of the Christian, he would have taught on this important topic, if it were true.

However, he took the time out to say this:

Galatians 5:19-20

19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are:immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20idolatry,sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

Colossians 3:5
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

 

[pinetree]

These were your words

no,those are from a post by Optimax..
see post 27..

Ps.Optimax is far from a judgemental brother.

 

[BlackJack77]

With all due respect brother Pinetree, if those Scriptures that brother Elijah2 posted are not referring to "Spirit filled believers" (which is not a term found in the Bible btw), I have to ask you, who is it you believe those Scriptures are referring to? Sincerely in Christ, Jack

sorry,matey,none of those are about Spirit filled believers,,,

do you have any other scriptures?

 

[pinetree]

With all due respect brother Pinetree, if those Scriptures that brother Elijah2 posted are not referring to "Spirit filled believers" (which is not a term found in the Bible btw), I have to ask you, who is it you believe those Scriptures are referring to? Sincerely in Christ, Jack

hello..

As the ministry of Jesus was unfolding...

The encounters were wtih unsaved people...

As far as being Spirit filled,that is a scriptural truth....

please see the op..

 

[rushingwind62]

Interesting note..
Paul taught so much,about alot of issues..

Church discipline, church government, gifts, behavior of leaders, living under New Covenant as opposes to old Covenant, order in church meetings, spiritual warfare.

Paul even went into the third heaven! Yet in his writings there is never a mention of Christians being inhabited. You would think in all Paul's teachings on the life of the Christian, he would have taught on this important topic, if it were true.

However, he took the time out to say this:

Galatians 5:19-20

19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are:immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20idolatry,sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

Colossians 3:5
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

It is true that Paul said these things, but no where does it say that Christians CAN'T be possessed. You want us to come up with a scripture that says we can be possessed, I would like to see one scripture that says we can't be. We can read many things into a scripture, we can even take it out of context to mean what we want it to mean. But give me one CLEAR PASSAGE of scripture that discusses this matter and I will stand down from my stance on this subject.