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SpyridonOCA

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When even potato chip bags are pandering to illegal immigrants, our nation is undergoing an existential crisis. When my family came to this country, they got jobs and learned the language. They preserved their cultural identity while assimilating into the broader culture. What makes someone special just for wearing a sombrero?

One can complain about the Mexican-American War until the cows come home. Guess what? They lost! The Southwest is ours regardless of what the activist class might say. It takes a position of privilege to sit on such a high horse in the first place. Remember, I'm not a xenophobe. If you accuse me of such, you are an ignoramus.

I just happen to believe that traditional American culture is something worth preserving, and that having thousands of undocumented immigrants is insane if we are to have a criminal justice system that works. How do I know that Julio isn’t a gang banger who massacres entire classrooms? I don’t. That’s why you need papers to step foot here in the first place. Otherwise, get out and don't come back.

Pander -

a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others.

Profiting from someone's willful ignorance of our national language is pandering. Profiting from their disregard for immigration law is even worse. The equal protection clause bars Hispanics from being treated differently from other ethnic groups.

Cuándo aún bolsas de patata frita alcahuetean a inmigrantes ilegales, nuestra nación experimenta una crisis existencial. Cuándo mi familia vino a este país, ellos consiguieron los trabajos y aprendieron el idioma. Ellos preservaron su identidad cultural al asimilar en la cultura más ancha. ¿Qué hace alguien especial justo para llevar un sombrero?

Uno puede quejarse de la Guerra mexicano norteamericano hasta que las vacas vuelvan a casa. ¿Adivina qué? ¡Ellos perdieron! El Suroeste es lo nuestro a pesar de lo que la clase de activista quizás diga. Toma una posición del privilegio para sentarse en un caballo tan alto en primer lugar. Recuerde, yo no soy un xenófobo. Si usted me acusa de tan, usted es un ignorante.

Acabo de suceder para creer que la cultura norteamericana tradicional es algo valor que preserva, y eso teniendo a miles de inmigrantes sin documentar son locos si somos de tener un sistema penal que trabaja. ¿Cómo sé yo que Julio no es una salchicha de la pandilla que masacra aulas enteras? No lo hago. Por eso usted necesita papeles para dar un paso pie aquí en primer lugar. De otro modo, sale y no regresa.

Alcahuetee - una persona que provee comida a o a las ganancias de las debilidades o vicios de otros.

Ganar de alguien la ignorancia que voluntariosa de nuestro idioma nacional alcahuetea. Ganar de su indiferencia para la ley inmigratoria es todavía peor. La cláusula igual de la protección previene a hispanos de ser tratado de forma distinta de otras etnias.
 
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Douger

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When even potato chip bags are pandering to illegal immigrants,
What do you mean by this?
One can complain about the Mexican-American War until the cows come home. Guess what? They lost! The Southwest is ours regardless of what the activist class might say.
Someone could easily turn that around.
"One can complain about illegal immigration until the cows come home. Guess what? It was their country! The Southwest is going back to Mexicans regardless of what white America may say."
I just happen to believe that traditional American culture is something worth preserving
What makes apple pie, baseball, and mickey mouse, more traditional American culture than Empanadas, football and El Chavo del Ocho?
Serious question.
 
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platzapS

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I'm a liberal, and I agree with you on the language thing. The US should have one dominant language that binds us together as a culture and simply for convenience.

We also need to check and record all immigrants, although I don't think deportation is the answer. I'd rather get these people paying taxes, learning English, and becoming Americans.
 
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revanneosl

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Your potato chip bag may have made you angry by being bilingual, but your actual neighbors are assimilating the English language faster than your great-grandparents did. Or my great-grandparents - anyway.

http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?id=282

Chances are that your potato chip bag doesn't have spanish text because it's being marketed to spanish-speakers in the US. Lots & lots of products are being packaged & labled in English, Spanish and French so that they can be sold to all of North America and Central America, and significant portions of South America, without having to worry about which packaging is going to which countries.
 
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ArnautDaniel

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I'm sorry if this thread is misinterpreted. It's out of love for others that I want protection against undocumented criminals.

Well you basically assumed that everyone who doesn't speak English is an illegal immigrant.

There are plenty of legals who don't speak English remotely well (if at all).

It sounded a lot more like you don't want (certain) foreigners here.
 
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scraparcs

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I'm sorry if this thread is misinterpreted. It's out of love for others that I want protection against undocumented criminals.

Well you basically assumed that everyone who doesn't speak English is an illegal immigrant.

There are plenty of legals who don't speak English remotely well (if at all).

It sounded a lot more like you don't want (certain) foreigners here.

Ok, let's put all potato chip bags in English only and that will keep undocumented criminals away.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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Well you basically assumed that everyone who doesn't speak English is an illegal immigrant.
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There are plenty of legals who don't speak English remotely well (if at all).

It sounded a lot more like you don't want (certain) foreigners here.

Please do not patronize me. My grandparents spoke English well enough to pass the citizenship test. Among friends and family, they spoke mostly Greek. They were, however, capable of reading a potato chip bag. Why would Hispanics need special treatment? I don't believe they are genetically inferior.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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If I can sell more potato chips by putting labels on my bags in English and Spanish, I'm going to do that. It's not 'pandering to illegal immigrants' it's simply savvy marketing.

Pander -
a person who caters to or profits from the weaknesses or vices of others.

Profiting from someone's willful ignorance of our national language is pandering. Profiting from their disregard for immigration law is even worse.
 
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revanneosl

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Please do not patronize me. My grandparents spoke English well enough to pass the citizenship test. Among friends and family, they spoke mostly Greek. They were, however, capable of reading a potato chip bag. Why would Hispanics need special treatment? I don't believe they are genetically inferior.

Please do not patronize the current immigrant population using your potato chip bag as data. Actual data indicates that hispanic immigrants are learning to speak English faster than your grandparents did or mine.

The difference is that the Lay's Potato Chip company wasn't trying to sell potato chips in Mexico, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Costa Rica, Argentina, Bolivia, Venezuela, Paraguay, Uruguay, Honduras, Peru, Puerto Rico and Columbia in your grandparent's day.

Today they are.

Also Quebec
 
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Staccato

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Profiting from someone's willful ignorance of our national language is pandering. Profiting from their disregard for immigration law is even worse.

As someone else said on this board, they are in different languages because the same product, produced from the same factory, is exported and sold in different countries. When I buy a buy a bag of chips or a six pack of Pepsi from the store it always has English, Spanish and French ingredients lists on.

With more specialist items this is even more pronounced. When my mum bought a new mini-grill, the instructions inside were written in English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Greek and Russian.

The next time you buy a Big Mac from McDonald's, look on the underside of the box. The contents of the meal (fats, proteins etc) are written in thirteen different languages. Because the same boxes are used all over the world.

They aren't pandering to certain groups in America saying "Hey, you! Our product has Spanish ingredients list on it, come on and buy!", they're just making it so the product can be sold internationally. There's no big conspiracy of encouraging ignorance here; it's just common sense.

Also, I can't help but feel that we've missed the main thrust of what you were trying to say ;)
 
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ACougar

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People in the United States should learn English so they can communicate with most people and enjoy all the opportunity this nation has to offer. Without English, immigrants are heavily disadvantaged.

As for culture, our culture isn't static, it's constantly moving and changing... influencing cultures around the world and being influenced by cultures around the world. Attempts to halt or alter the natural development of culture are usually not successful and are often unhealthy.

Being an undocumented immigrant doesn't make you a criminal, they haven't broken a "criminal law" simply by being undocumented. You may want undocumented immigrants to be criminalized, but at this time they are not... that's a fact. It is a civil offense, not a criminal offense.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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Actual data indicates that hispanic immigrants are learning to speak English faster than your grandparents did or mine.

If that were true, why did my grandparents not need bilingual education, bilingual bus stops, and bilingual everything? My father didn’t speak fluent English until grade school. How did he learn it? From not having bilingual education.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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They aren't pandering to certain groups in America saying "Hey, you! Our product has Spanish ingredients list on it, come on and buy!", they're just making it so the product can be sold internationally. There's no big conspiracy of encouraging ignorance here; it's just common sense.

I'd believe you if it were not for the efforts to bilingualize everything else.

Also, I can't help but feel that we've missed the main thrust of what you were trying to say ;)

My family didn't need special treatment. Hispanics don't either.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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Being an undocumented immigrant doesn't make you a criminal, they haven't broken a "criminal law" simply by being undocumented.

If you are undocumented, we have no way of knowing. That's the whole point that liberals and corporatists willfully disregard.
 
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SpyridonOCA

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May I ask to what else you are inferring?

Just look outside. Bilingual bus stops, bilingual bathrooms, bilingual education, bilingual ballots, bilingual everything under the sun. My family didn't need such special treatment. Hispanics are no less capable. The equal protection clause should prevent Hispanics from being treated differently from other ethnic groups.
 
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revanneosl

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If that were true, why did my grandparents not need bilingual education, bilingual bus stops, and bilingual everything? My father didn’t speak fluent English until grade school. How did he learn it? From not having bilingual education.

No, no, not "if that were true". That is true. I gave you a whole big raft of data, with charts and everything. Different immigrant groups achieve linguistic assimilation into English-speaking America at different rates, but oveall, Hispanic imigrant populations are currently achieving this assimilation at rates higher that those of past groups.

You say that past groups didn't "need" bilingual education. True - but some got it anyway. Here's another piece of data for you (not found on the back of a bag of potato chips) in the early 1900s, nearly 4% of German speaking children enrolled in elementary school received part of their education in German.

Bilingual education isn't new. It's been going on since before the founding of the United States. And it has always been controversial.

Here - look! Data! http://www.freewebs.com/cerdahdz/historyofbilingualed.htm
 
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