Please help me.

[RobertVillager]

You won't really like my answer, because it's "I don't know" in this scenario...and MOST of it is a matter of perspective.

An equally compelling case can be made from either side.

Let's take the "her claim matters" side. To discount her claim I'd have to say that actions matter more than words. Adherence to the words of Jesus and the Apostles is what denotes a Christian - or at least an attempt to adhere to them. In making that claim, I'd be saying that actions speak louder than words...and are any of our actions truly good? Paul claims "no". We're all fallen, we're all sinners, and it's our claim that matters most. Our actions are just as "filthy rags" after all.

So there's that point of view.

But, then we could take the opposite point of view. Anyone can say anything. Does the mere fact that the words are uttered from someone's mouth make it true? What kind of "true" Christian just utterly ignores, and proudly walks away from, the words of Jesus and the Apostles? A line has to be set somewhere. It just makes sense that someone ought at least TRY to be considered to be a true Christian, doesn't it?

Both sides hold equal weight logically in my mind - and there's neither side I like better.

So it really does boil down to point of view...and for MOST people...the conclusion they come to on that is the one that fits them at the time. MOST people interpret those types of things where the answer is not just obviously clear in the way that makes life go a bit more swimmingly for them.

And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing...at least in this scenario...nor do I think that God gets all up in a bunch about it.

It sounds like you’re view of Christianity is well; your view. Not to change the subject but can I ask you if you have any Godly counsel in your life such as a pastor, somebody whose descipled you, a church home, or even a church at all? I just would like a scope of who I’m receiving advice from.

It sounds to me like you yourself have a disdain for the type of person you’re painting me to be. If you think I wake up everyday and berate my wife about not being Christian enough; or that every argument, or even 25% of our arguements go to that place; you’re wrong. Most of what I’m stating here about her is what I’m working out in my own head and seeking counsel for.

But you’re description earlier in this thread about how worshipping God is not part of your deal and you think all God wants of us is to try and be as good as possible while putting Him on the back burner and not studying His word; I can see how you would be taking the defensive side you’re taking against somebody like me who you think is berating people to be more Christian.

 

[DZoolander]

I don't ask for counsel. Some of the worst and most traumatizing advice I've ever received was the result of religious counsel.

Heck - at a very early age - I remember being pulled into a room by a pastor with a bunch of other kids and being told about the "hierarchy of sin" - with sexual sin (including masturbation) being second only to murder in terms of severity in the eyes of God. I remember the turmoil that set me into for the next 4-5 years through my adolescence.

I could go on and on with other bad examples of "counsel" from other people.

At some point - I decided to take my own counsel - given what other people's was worth

 

[DZoolander]

Now, that all being said, I was raised quite religiously, I'm familiar with the topic, nearly went to divinity school to get a masters in theology, have my undergraduate work in ethics and ethical theory, etc.

 

[DZoolander]

It sounds to me like you yourself have a disdain for the type of person you’re painting me to be. If you think I wake up everyday and berate my wife about not being Christian enough; or that every argument, or even 25% of our arguements go to that place; you’re wrong. Most of what I’m stating here about her is what I’m working out in my own head and seeking counsel for.

On another note - no - I don't have any disdain at all.

Maybe I'm wrong in what I'm gathering from what you've posted, though. Yes, I do have the perception that you're bringing religion and her faith into the mix as a way of trying to save the marriage, though. That perception *does* influence what I'm saying. That's true.

But once again, I could be wrong and you're not doing that. But if that's the case - why is she even telling you that she'll worry about the "Jesus stuff later"? Is she the one, in the course of discussions about the dissolution of your marriage, bringing religion up? My guess has been that you're the one asking her "how can you be talking about leaving when Jesus said this", or implying that maybe her walk with God isn't strong enough. That maybe if her walk with Him were stronger, or she had more Godly counsel in her life, etc...that you guys wouldn't be facing this possible divorce.

Is that not what's happening?

 

[tall73]

I don’t want to rationalize to myself in the future that she wasn’t a true Christian just to justify me moving onto another person; I’m concerned with what the genuine truth is.

This part comes across like you are hoping you have the right boxes checked off so you can forget about her and go with someone else.

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

The text addresses letting someone leave if they insist. It does not say anything about remarriage. In verse 10 and 11 the emphasis is on leaving room for reconciliation.

The principle that Jesus laid down is that you are one flesh, and what God joined let no man put asunder. Jesus noted that divorce was allowed due to hardness of heart.

So instead of trying to figure out if you have permission to move on, why not try to make a bit more sense of why she is leaving? To those reading it is not at all clear why she wants to move and leave you. She wants something different you said. What exactly does she want?

The only thing it sounds like so far is she may perceive you have no ambition, and she apparently has a lot of ambition.

Does she want a better career?
Does she want to party?
Does she want to have nothing to do with God and feels she can't do that with you around?


So can you explain why she wants to not only leave you, but change states? That sounds like an intentional move to put distance between you and her, and make a total break. Is there something in particular she wants to do that is elsewhere? Is there a reason she wants to change states to get that far away from her current life?

If you truly have no idea why she is set on getting away from you, then you would definitely not want to plan on moving to another relationship. You would have to figure out why this one went so far off course, and that is about more than just her.

 

[mkgal1]

She feels the opposite about all those things and says we just think differently. But I mean having a love that’s fickle, hating to do any serving and having a bad attitude towards it, saying you hate fellowship with other believers, constantly complaining and always wanting more out of life, and believing in and relying on yourself rather than thanking and believing in God to me is not just thinking differently.

When I first read this, I thought maybe she'd just gotten fed up with *church* (which doesn't mean she's fed up with God). I could certainly understand that....I've been there and know many people that feel that way.

But then I continued to read and got to this:

I mean it’s simple things sometimes. I’ll give a specific example of something recently. She asked what my goals are at my job and I told her I don’t really have long term goals, I had a rough year last year so I want to focus on just being a good employee before I worry about the future, and I have faith that God will present an opportunity once it opens up so I don’t really worry about the future much. I just want to focus on having a better year than I had last year. She told me that’s really stupid and that answer irritates her. I tried to explain myself further and say 5 years ago we were unemployed drug addicts living at my moms with no future; no amount of planning or goal setting got us to where we are today; so I personally find it arrogant of myself to set goals and say “in two years I’m going to run this department or get this position” if that’s completely contrary to the direction my life may go or where God wants me. That’s just how i personally see things.

.....then my perspective of your marital problems changed.

I completely agree with your view of your "goals" at your place of employment. Her response was horrible (in my opinion). It seems like you both are really set in your own way of thinking and can't have any respect for what the other thinks/believes (and see it that if you're not "both on the same page" then all is lost). I honestly doubt most couples are "both on the same page" when it comes to intricate ways of thinking. That's something that's been put out there in mainstream churches....and I honestly think it's destroying a LOT of marriages (instead of helping).

Is your wife definite about wanting a divorce...or can the two of you take a bit of a step back and allow each of you to sort of regroup?

 

[RobertVillager]

This part comes across like you are hoping you have the right boxes checked off so you can forget about her and go with someone else.

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

The text addresses letting someone leave if they insist. It does not say anything about remarriage. In verse 10 and 11 the emphasis is on leaving room for reconciliation.

The principle that Jesus laid down is that you are one flesh, and what God joined let no man put asunder. Jesus noted that divorce was allowed due to hardness of heart.

So instead of trying to figure out if you have permission to move on, why not try to make a bit more sense of why she is leaving? To those reading it is not at all clear why she wants to move and leave you. She wants something different you said. What exactly does she want?

The only thing it sounds like so far is she may perceive you have no ambition, and she apparently has a lot of ambition.

Does she want a better career?
Does she want to party?
Does she want to have nothing to do with God and feels she can't do that with you around?


So can you explain why she wants to not only leave you, but change states? That sounds like an intentional move to put distance between you and her, and make a total break. Is there something in particular she wants to do that is elsewhere? Is there a reason she wants to change states to get that far away from her current life?

If you truly have no idea why she is set on getting away from you, then you would definitely not want to plan on moving to another relationship. You would have to figure out why this one went so far off course, and that is about more than just her.

The reasons she wants to leave are for one we handle conflict differently. She wants to avoid it at all cost while I believe a simple conversation can fix it and sometimes it creates the friction of me trying to force her to deal with / talk about an issue. Even if I let something go and try again the next day; she never wants to deal with or talk about any problems; I’m fight and she’s flight; but what’s a fight to her is just a simple conversation to me; but her adversion to ever talking about anything does cause friction and things to end up turning into a fight which leads her to believe that she’s justified in never wanting to deal with issues.

That’s her main reason for thinking we are incompatible and wanting to leave. Other reasons are “this just isn’t fun anymore” and that we care about different things. She said I care about serving in the church and she cares about “seeing the world”.

The other piece to this puzzle is that she has an aunt and grandmother who raised her who live in South Carolina, and she visited them about three months ago for a week. It was when she came back from there that all this started. She came back saying she was young when she married me (three years ago) and she grew up now, we want different things out of life, and she’s tired of all the obligations she has here with our job, church, and her family.

 

[RobertVillager]

When I first read this, I thought maybe she'd just gotten fed up with *church* (which doesn't mean she's fed up with God). I could certainly understand that....I've been there and know many people that feel that way.

But then I continued to read and got to this:


.....then my perspective of your marital problems changed.

I completely agree with your view of your "goals" at your place of employment. Her response was horrible (in my opinion). It seems like you both are really set in your own way of thinking and can't have any respect for what the other thinks/believes (and see it that if you're not "both on the same page" then all is lost). I honestly doubt most couples are "both on the same page" when it comes to intricate ways of thinking. That's something that's been put out there in mainstream churches....and I honestly think it's destroying a LOT of marriages (instead of helping).

Is your wife definite about wanting a divorce...or can the two of you take a bit of a step back and allow each of you to sort of regroup?

I wish I knew lol. There’s mornings where she’s telling me how much she loves me and is hugging and kissing me; and then that same night I’ll go to hug her and she will act like I shouldn’t be and telling me she wants me to remember she still plans on leaving me. Theres times where she kisses me and keeps it to a limited peck and tells me I should start looking to buy a second car because she’s leaving me; and there’s times where she’s talking about our future and cuddling up with me in bed.

It’s a very confusing time and through this whole process I’m starting to feel like even if she does break out of whatever this is that she’s going through, it’s going to be hard for me at that point to just say “don’t worry about it, it happens!” Part of me is offended that she so easily is willing to throw this marriage away and it makes me question how much this person actually loves or ever loved me.

 

[tall73]

The other piece to this puzzle is that she has an aunt and grandmother who raised her who live in South Carolina, and she visited them about three months ago for a week. It was when she came back from there that all this started. She came back saying she was young when she married me (three years ago) and she grew up now, we want different things out of life, and she’s tired of all the obligations she has here with our job, church, and her family.

So she wants to
get rid of you
get rid of God
get rid of responsibilities


Did she say much about what happened that week?

You mentioned previous drug issues. Any possibility she got into some other addictive element on that trip? Drugs, romantic infatuation, etc.?

 

[RobertVillager]

So she wants to
get rid of you
get rid of God
get rid of responsibilities


Did she say much about what happened that week?

You mentioned previous drug issues. Any possibility she got into some other addictive element on that trip? Drugs, romantic infatuation, etc.?

No I really don’t think any of that is the case. I think she really just had a change of heart about everything. I think she went on vacation and had 0 responsibilities and came back to real life and wants to run away from it all.

 

[RobertVillager]

Thank all of you for taking the time to respond and pray for my situation. I may tend to over spiritualize things but at the end of the day that’s what I think this is. We were all in when we got saved and we were so favored and blessed. The further both of us have drifted away from God the more problems we’ve had. I’ve had my moments of disobedience and backsliding myself and suffered the consequences. But I feel like her heart has completely turned away from God and the more she turns away from Him and leans to her own understanding is the more confusion and chaos its creating.