Please help me.

[RobertVillager]

Update; the plans of leaving me have only increased from an idea to a reality. There’s no infidelity, no physical or emotional abuse. Her heart is just drifting further and further. The issue is how we deal with conflict; she doesn’t want to deal with anything, shuts down, and is afraid of a fight happening; while I’m always under the impression conflict is easily resolvable with a civil discussion. Because of this problem in our marriage she wants to leave.

I scheduled marriage counseling and she refused to come, I went by myself. I’ve been praying, seeking counsel, loving her, doing all that I can but her mind is made up. This is a very tough time in my life. I haven’t been a perfect husband and there is proverbial blood on my hands in the death of this marriage, but I never would have gave up. I also have been there for her through a lot of things, have helped her family members who were on drugs, taken them in, ministered to them, loved them when she didn’t, and was there for her when her sister passed away from the drug use. All I’ve done sacrificially for her and in the end she’s going to leave because she doesn’t want to deal with conflict or put the work in it takes for the marriage.

I’ve always felt like her love and devotion towards me was very shallow and it’s obvious that it is; but knowing that doesn’t make this any easier. Our pastors have been reaching out to her, she’s not returning their calls or seeking any godly counsel, she’s filling her head up with secular tv, music, and podcasts and she’s just drifting further and further and with that she’s convinced that she wants to leave me; AND is doing so in the most calloused and careless of ways. This isn’t us hugging each other and crying because our marriage is ending; this is her arrogantly telling me she’s leaving me, she doesn’t care enough to fix the marriage, and that it’s not worth it to her. I’ve never had to take such hard punches in my life.

 

[Ana the Ist]

On the way home from work tonight is when she said I need to find somebody that thinks like me and we just think differently and are on different pages. I tried to explain that there’s only one way to think and one page to be on; and that’s not my way of thinking or my page but what God says. If we aren’t on the same page then one of us (or both of us) are on the wrong page. I told her our marriage was built on a foundation and without that foundation it WILL fall apart, and when I ask her where God is in her thoughts or in how she approaches our marriage; she has no answer. She just wants to leave and thinks the problem is that I need a different person. I just wish we were on the same page and did have God at the center of our marriage; and I feel like this is what it means to be unequally yoked.

This might be the vaguest problem I have ever seen on this marriage section. I understand that you think your wife is falling away from god/not on the same page as you spiritually....but what does that mean in practical terms? Is it something that she says? Is it something she's doing?

I understand that you don't want to "bash" her....but there's ways of talking about a problem with someone without bashing them. I suggest you find a way to talk about this problem....otherwise there's no real hope of solving it.

 

[RobertVillager]

This might be the vaguest problem I have ever seen on this marriage section. I understand that you think your wife is falling away from god/not on the same page as you spiritually....but what does that mean in practical terms? Is it something that she says? Is it something she's doing?

I understand that you don't want to "bash" her....but there's ways of talking about a problem with someone without bashing them. I suggest you find a way to talk about this problem....otherwise there's no real hope of solving it.

Well yeah one thing that she says that makes me feel like she’s falling away from God is “I’m falling away from God” lol. She also said last night that “I’ll get back on that jesus stuff after I leave you”

 

[DZoolander]

I wonder if she feeling like she's "falling away from God" is a consequence of you browbeating her over what you think God wants.

Like, what do you envision that being? Do you envision it along the lines of "God wants us to work together to find common ground, to find shared interests, to find a shared desire to move forward together" - or do you envision the common ground being that of praying, going to church and spending all your time thinking about God?

 

[DZoolander]

Because I can't think of many things that I'd find more tiresome than someone asking me to account for my faith, implying that it wasn't sufficient, and that we were unequally yoked (with their faith being the far more virtuous and/or strong).

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well yeah one thing that she says that makes me feel like she’s falling away from God is “I’m falling away from God” lol. She also said last night that “I’ll get back on that jesus stuff after I leave you”

So in her mind, her issues with god aren't the cause of her problems with you....they're a consequence of it.

What are her problems with you? Why would she want to leave? I didn't get that from the OP....I just thought you were worried about her falling out of faith. It wasn't clear that she was talking about leaving the marriage for some reason.

 

[RobertVillager]

So in her mind, her issues with god aren't the cause of her problems with you....they're a consequence of it.

What are her problems with you? Why would she want to leave? I didn't get that from the OP....I just thought you were worried about her falling out of faith. It wasn't clear that she was talking about leaving the marriage for some reason.

She doesn’t like to deal with any conflict. When there’s conflict; I think a simple conversation can fix it; she tells me to shut up and leave her alone. If I let the problem rest for a day; and bring it back up; she does the same thing again. I’ve tried different methods of approaching her; I’ve even just kept my mouth shut for months to avoid conflict and she was happy as can be; but bitterness starts to form and things start to pile up and I don’t think that’s the right thing to do either. So because we deal with conflict in different ways, instead of work on ourselves, she thinks we are just incompatible and would be happier on our own.

 

[RobertVillager]

Because I can't think of many things that I'd find more tiresome than someone asking me to account for my faith, implying that it wasn't sufficient, and that we were unequally yoked (with their faith being the far more virtuous and/or strong).

I’ve never said something like this to her. But I have said I think the way I think because of my faith. I’m devoted to our marriage because of my faith, I don’t complain about serving in the church because of my faith, I’m grateful for where we are in life because of my faith, I have great hope for the future because of my faith. She feels the opposite about all those things and says we just think differently. But I mean having a love that’s fickle, hating to do any serving and having a bad attitude towards it, saying you hate fellowship with other believers, constantly complaining and always wanting more out of life, and believing in and relying on yourself rather than thanking and believing in God to me is not just thinking differently.

No I don’t think I’m the reason she’s falling away from God. If I am; then so is all the other people she mocks and puts down from the church. The church recently sent her a card about her sister that passed away last year and she just opened it, skimmed through it, and tossed it to the side. People have been reaching out to her recently and she turns her nose up at them and said she wants to go to a different church where nobody knows her.

But I really don’t want to continue to dive into all the details of who she is and what’s been going on. She’s still planning on leaving me; I made this initial post after an argument where I ended up not sleeping at all. It’s just a confusing and hurtful time for me right now.

 

[RobertVillager]

And the main point of the post is; if she divorces me where does that leave me? The Bible says if an unbeliever wants to leave to let them. So what if she isn’t a genuine believer. I have reasons to believe she might not be; but I also could just be rationalizing. I don’t mean for this post to be putting her or her faith on trial, but she’s 99.8% sure she’s going to leave. As a Christian myself; where does that leave me, and is it possible that she’s not a genuine believer and that I should just let her go.

 

[DZoolander]

Well, if she leaves you, it leaves you alone.

If you interpret that as being she's not a real believer, because a real believer wouldn't have left (which is the likely conclusion you'll come to), take a few years off, get your head together, then go out and find someone that's more in tune with you.

 

[RobertVillager]

Well, if she leaves you, it leaves you alone.

If you interpret that as being she's not a real believer, because a real believer wouldn't have left (which is the likely conclusion you'll come to), take a few years off, get your head together, then go out and find someone that's more in tune with you.

I didn’t say anything close to her not being a real believer because she’s leaving me. I’m not sure how you got that. Let me state it plainly; my wife is going to divorce me. The Bible has a lot to say about not getting divorced and not getting remarried. There’s no infidelity, there’s no abuse; she just doesn’t want to do it anymore. The Bible says if an unbeliever wants to leave to let them go; but she is a professing Christian; so what am I supposed to do? And what if she is only a professing Christian? Because she hates anything that has to do with God or church or Gods people. Would that make remarriage okay in my case; and how would I know if that is the case...that’s my dilemma.

 

[DZoolander]

I'm just saying what your line of thinking is going to be over the long run...lol

If she divorces you, you're going to likely have the kinds of questions that you're having. But you're then going to start wondering (despite her professing to being a Christian) whether or not a TRUE Christian would have so easily abandoned her marriage vows. After all, is it just saying you're a Christian that matters? Clearly a real Christian is one that also abides by the rules, right?

That's going to weigh on you for a while, and as you start meeting new people and the issue of remarriage becomes more and more pronounced, your conclusion will start to move toward "No, the mark of a true Christian is that one follows God's will. It's not enough to just say you are." You will come to the conclusion that you let an unbeliever go, and that the remarriage will be proper.

That's just how people are...lol Right now when you're in marriage saving mode or "hoping it will be saved mode" you're looking at it one way. When it serves you to see it differently later, you'll see it differently.

 

[RobertVillager]

I'm just saying what your line of thinking is going to be over the long run...lol

If she divorces you, you're going to likely have the kinds of questions that you're having. But you're then going to start wondering (despite her professing to being a Christian) whether or not a TRUE Christian would have so easily abandoned her marriage vows. After all, is it just saying you're a Christian that matters? Clearly a real Christian is one that also abides by the rules, right?

That's going to weigh on you for a while, and as you start meeting new people and the issue of remarriage becomes more and more pronounced, your conclusion will start to move toward "No, the mark of a true Christian is that one follows God's will. It's not enough to just say you are." You will come to the conclusion that you let an unbeliever go, and that the remarriage will be proper.

That's just how people are...lol Right now when you're in marriage saving mode or "hoping it will be saved mode" you're looking at it one way. When it serves you to see it differently later, you'll see it differently.

Why is it “when it serves me to see it differently”? I don’t care how something serves me lol I care about what the truth is. I’m not trying to rationalize or justify doing the wrong thing and I won’t want to in the future either. I’m concerned with the truth of the matter, not just with making myself feel better about it with convenient truths.

It’s almost like you’re saying there’s a flaw in my line of thinking; and if there is I’m willing to accept that and recognize where I’m mistaken. I do doubt the genuineness of her faith for a lot of reasons but I also don’t trust myself as the final authority to make that judgement. I don’t want to rationalize to myself in the future that she wasn’t a true Christian just to justify me moving onto another person; I’m concerned with what the genuine truth is.

 

[Ana the Ist]

She doesn’t like to deal with any conflict. When there’s conflict; I think a simple conversation can fix it; she tells me to shut up and leave her alone. If I let the problem rest for a day; and bring it back up; she does the same thing again. I’ve tried different methods of approaching her; I’ve even just kept my mouth shut for months to avoid conflict and she was happy as can be; but bitterness starts to form and things start to pile up and I don’t think that’s the right thing to do either. So because we deal with conflict in different ways, instead of work on ourselves, she thinks we are just incompatible and would be happier on our own.

Wow....you're right about that not being a way to deal with conflict. A healthy marriage needs communication to succeed.

Can I ask what sort of things cause conflict? I mean, if you're talking about an argument over who does the dishes....then yes, there needs to be some open communication there.

 

[RobertVillager]

Wow....you're right about that not being a way to deal with conflict. A healthy marriage needs communication to succeed.

Can I ask what sort of things cause conflict? I mean, if you're talking about an argument over who does the dishes....then yes, there needs to be some open communication there.

I mean it’s simple things sometimes. I’ll give a specific example of something recently. She asked what my goals are at my job and I told her I don’t really have long term goals, I had a rough year last year so I want to focus on just being a good employee before I worry about the future, and I have faith that God will present an opportunity once it opens up so I don’t really worry about the future much. I just want to focus on having a better year than I had last year. She told me that’s really stupid and that answer irritates her. I tried to explain myself further and say 5 years ago we were unemployed drug addicts living at my moms with no future; no amount of planning or goal setting got us to where we are today; so I personally find it arrogant of myself to set goals and say “in two years I’m going to run this department or get this position” if that’s completely contrary to the direction my life may go or where God wants me. That’s just how i personally see things.

So to me I just want to explain that to her; but to her that’s stupid of me, it irritates her that I think that way; and furthermore she wants me to shut up about it and what to me is a back and forth conversation of us understanding each other to her is an arguement that she wants to avoid and not deal with. And I am guilty of trying to get my point across anyway even though she’s avoiding a conversation at all costs; but to me it’s not an argument; to her it is and then the conflict and tension start.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I mean it’s simple things sometimes. I’ll give a specific example of something recently. She asked what my goals are at my job and I told her I don’t really have long term goals, I had a rough year last year so I want to focus on just being a good employee before I worry about the future, and I have faith that God will present an opportunity once it opens up so I don’t really worry about the future much. I just want to focus on having a better year than I had last year. She told me that’s really stupid and that answer irritates her. I tried to explain myself further and say 5 years ago we were unemployed drug addicts living at my moms with no future; no amount of planning or goal setting got us to where we are today; so I personally find it arrogant of myself to set goals and say “in two years I’m going to run this department or get this position” if that’s completely contrary to the direction my life may go or where God wants me. That’s just how i personally see things.

So to me I just want to explain that to her; but to her that’s stupid of me, it irritates her that I think that way; and furthermore she wants me to shut up about it and what to me is a back and forth conversation of us understanding each other to her is an arguement that she wants to avoid and not deal with. And I am guilty of trying to get my point across anyway even though she’s avoiding a conversation at all costs; but to me it’s not an argument; to her it is and then the conflict and tension start.

That's really awful buddy...I'm sorry you're in that situation.

Did you two marry because you got through the addiction together? I know tht struggling with something that difficult can bring people really close together and coming out the other side of it can makes it seem like you two can handle anything that comes your way.

Do you ever get the feeling that perhaps what she felt for you was distorted by the circumstances you went through together, and now....her feelings towards you have changed?

Sometimes people act this way (women and men) when they realize they aren't really in love....possibly they never really were....but since their spouse is still a good person who hasn't really done anything wrong, they act like difficult/indifferent/irritable people because they want their spouse to give up and leave. They know they would feel bad if they left....if they ended the relationship....so they act poorly hoping their spouse will end it. It let's them leave the relationship "guilt free" in a twisted sort of way.

 

[Dave-W]

She also said last night that “I’ll get back on that jesus stuff after I leave you”

I seriously doubt the commitment and reality of someone's walk with the Lord that would use the phrase "that jesus stuff."

 

[DZoolander]

I seriously doubt the commitment and reality of someone's walk with the Lord that would use the phrase "that jesus stuff."

Well, just to be completely fair to her, we don't know the entire context of the discussion. I find that sometimes what I say to people is contingent upon the circumstance - especially if I've been in a heated or emotionally draining conversation with them.

For example - I could see myself saying something like that in a discussion. Even though the OP says he doesn't ask her to account for her faith, diminish it, etc...let's say she feels that he does. If I felt someone was asking me to account for my faith in a heated discussion, it could bring up a number of other thoughts I have on the subject.

For example - I don't spend a good amount of time worrying about "Jesus stuff". I came to the conclusion a long time ago that what God expected was for us to try and be as "good" as possible...to be forthright...to treat people well...etc...and that those were the types of things that glorified Him most. As a result, "worship", prostrating myself before Him, pouring over the Bible, etc...isn't something that is part of my deal. It's just not how I see my relationship with Him.

But, that has in the past caused other people issues that are more "conventionally" religious. If someone were intimately involved with me and kept talking to me about how I practice my faith, how it relates to what I'm doing, and kept talking about "Jesus" and how "Jesus" relates to my actions...I can see how I might get fed up with it and say something along the lines of "I'll worry about the Jesus stuff later." In that context - "Jesus stuff" means "how you seem to think I ought honor Him". It wouldn't so much be a statement about the Lord, but rather a statement about my opinion of you/how you seem to think I ought be doing things.

 

[Dave-W]

Well, just to be completely fair to her, we don't know the entire context of the discussion. I find that sometimes what I say to people is contingent upon the circumstance - especially if I've been in a heated or emotionally draining conversation with them.

OK - good point.

 

[DZoolander]

Why is it “when it serves me to see it differently”? I don’t care how something serves me lol I care about what the truth is. I’m not trying to rationalize or justify doing the wrong thing and I won’t want to in the future either. I’m concerned with the truth of the matter, not just with making myself feel better about it with convenient truths.

It’s almost like you’re saying there’s a flaw in my line of thinking; and if there is I’m willing to accept that and recognize where I’m mistaken. I do doubt the genuineness of her faith for a lot of reasons but I also don’t trust myself as the final authority to make that judgement. I don’t want to rationalize to myself in the future that she wasn’t a true Christian just to justify me moving onto another person; I’m concerned with what the genuine truth is.

You won't really like my answer, because it's "I don't know" in this scenario...and MOST of it is a matter of perspective.

An equally compelling case can be made from either side.

Let's take the "her claim matters" side. To discount her claim I'd have to say that actions matter more than words. Adherence to the words of Jesus and the Apostles is what denotes a Christian - or at least an attempt to adhere to them. In making that claim, I'd be saying that actions speak louder than words...and are any of our actions truly good? Paul claims "no". We're all fallen, we're all sinners, and it's our claim that matters most. Our actions are just as "filthy rags" after all.

So there's that point of view.

But, then we could take the opposite point of view. Anyone can say anything. Does the mere fact that the words are uttered from someone's mouth make it true? What kind of "true" Christian just utterly ignores, and proudly walks away from, the words of Jesus and the Apostles? A line has to be set somewhere. It just makes sense that someone ought at least TRY to be considered to be a true Christian, doesn't it?

Both sides hold equal weight logically in my mind - and there's neither side I like better.

So it really does boil down to point of view...and for MOST people...the conclusion they come to on that is the one that fits them at the time. MOST people interpret those types of things where the answer is not just obviously clear in the way that makes life go a bit more swimmingly for them.

And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing...at least in this scenario...nor do I think that God gets all up in a bunch about it.