Please help. I keep getting asked this question and it's making be wonder

[lostintranslation]

Hello everyone,

First post and all that.

I love to discuss faith and Jesus with people but I keep falling down on the same point.

I look at the Bible and there's so much in it which cannot be taken literally and is clearly metaphorical. When atheists laugh at the Bible, I always say, "it's not all supposed to be literal" and most back off at this point.

However, some ask me the following question and the more I question it, the more I wonder

"So, how do we know which bits are meant to be taken literally and which bits are meant to be seen as metaphorical?"

Can anyone help? Thanks.

 

[brinny]

God does not think like us. He has no limitations. There are times He may speak in parables, as Jesus did. Yet, He giveth wisdom, if asked. Proverbs is full of it. It might be a good place to start.

What i wonder about is this: In our finite minds, can we really put our logic against the Almighty's? God is infinite. We are not. In light of that, perhaps His wisdom is required to understand the Bible. All we need do is ask for it.

My goal in reading the Bible is to absorb as much of Him as I can. Psalms is another good place to start. David poured his heart and soul out to God. He grew in wisdom and faith.

Do we really want to get to know God? Is that our reason for reading the Bible from the gitgo?

 

[lostintranslation]

Thanks brinny. I'm kind of looking for something more definite. That kind of answer isn't going to wash with those who don't have the faith.

The trouble is when I look at it, it does start to look like we're told to see the things that have been disproven by science as "metaphorical" and everything else as literal.

For example, historically speaking, the people on the earth at the time of writing the scripture would have believed the genesis story as a literal explanation of how things worked but now we know that to be a metaphor...Do you see my problem?

 

[brinny]

The Bible is merely a beckoning to look to the One Who wrote it. As far as convincing someone that is truly the Word of God, that is the job of the Holy Spirit, not ours. God, moving in a heart, is what softens it and opens spiritual eyes...i once was blind but now i see. God will do this. We cannot.

 

[lostintranslation]

Thanks again brinny.

However, when I use that kind of argument, they always have a decent logical rebuttal.

I cannot see how we can argue that the Bible is the word of God when it is so inconsistent. I believe it to be the word of man on God. If not, I think we believe God to be a rather unkind, confused deity...which we know him not to be.

Can anyone else help?

 

[brinny]

sorry, dear heart...(((hug))))

y'know i was reading a blog, here on this site of a former atheist...it might be helpful for you to check it out.

Here's the link:

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7310620

 

[lostintranslation]

Thanks Brinny. There's not really anything else I struggle with but I just cannot find a proper straight answer to the question,

"How do we know which bits of the Bible are metaphorical and which bits are meant to be taken literally?"

 

[brinny]

Thanks Brinny. There's not really anything else I struggle with but I just cannot find a proper straight answer to the question,

"How do we know which bits of the Bible are metaphorical and which bits are meant to be taken literally?"

some former atheists say that it's used as a smokescreen, to not really deal with the fact that there is an actual God Who is going to hold everyone accountable. God tells us that even His handiwork sings His praises. And we know that it is impossible to please Him without faith....

Nevertheless, if you are looking for concrete answers to the above, you might want to check out a brilliant apologist who answers them in great detail. His name is Ravi Zacharias. He has a website.

 

[lostintranslation]

I cannot see how it is a smokescreen. it seems a totally reasonable question to me. We would certainly ask the same of any other historical book what had metaphor and literal truth in it.

 

[Yardstick]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Whats metaphor and whats literal isn't so important. Just remember what the two great commandments are when you read the bible.
[/FONT]

 

[lostintranslation]

i know that, Yardstick.

However, it doesn't answer the very valid question. The more I think about this, the more I think we're deluding ourselves and missing the point of the Bible if we don't allow ourselves to seriously consider this question.

On another thread on here, there are people trying to argue that the Ark existed but I have long since thought that history and archaeology prove that to not be the case and only a few literalists remain who are trying to prove it.

I think these people make a mockery of our faith, in a way. It's so easy to disprove large parts of the bible, unless we accept them as metaphor. I just want an answer to this question I keep getting asked...

How do we know which bits are metaphorical and which bits are literal?

I honestly think that if we cannot answer this question well, that it really brings into question the whole book and this is not something I want to do.

Please help.

 

[brinny]

I cannot see how it is a smokescreen. it seems a totally reasonable question to me. We would certainly ask the same of any other historical book what had metaphor and literal truth in it.

you just skipped over my reference to Ravi Zacharias. He lectures on these very issues and has extensively studied the Bible.

You asked, and began a thread with the very things he will answer for you, yet you ignored what i posted....

 

[lostintranslation]

Hang on. Let's not argue amongst ourselves. I did go and look at Ravi's site but I couldn't find anything relevant. If you could post a relevant link that would be helpful.

Can we stick to the question, please? I don't want us to appear like we are avoiding it.

 

[brinny]

no argument here. He answers these questions. So you found his site. good. Check it until you find the relevant answers to your question.

You asked for help. I'm not arguing with you

 

[lostintranslation]

I have been checking it ever since you suggested it but cannot find an answer to the question.

 

[Yardstick]

Can you post an example of whats confusing you? Using a scientific understanding of nature, and investigating the historical events, along with a study of the culture usually sheds a great deal of light on what is historical and what isn't.

The authors of the bible weren't writing history as we know it, so our only way of knowing would be to look at the events from outside sources.

 

[lostintranslation]

I thought some of it was history and some of it was metaphorical?

 

[Gareth]

Logical rebuttal. Jesus spoke of two men. One was rich and the other poor. Both died and one went to a favoured place and the other not so favourable. Sound familiar? It's the Rich Man and Lazarus story. Some people use this to prove certain doctrinal points. But reading around the verses shows this is an illustration showing what happens to those who think they have God's favour and yet due to their treatment of others shows they do not. How so? Well Lazarus when he died in the story goes to a position next to Abraham being carried there by angels. So is Abraham alive now? Jesus said that no-one had ascended to heaven except the one who had descended, that is Jesus himself. Further Paul in Hebrews 11 shows that many faithful ones had died awaiting God's purpose being fulfilled without seeing it happen. This included Abraham. So if Abraham is still dead and awaiting a resurrection in God's time then the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is just a story. However like many of the stories told by Jesus there is a moral to it. Jesus was talking to his disciples and also to the Pharisee's who didn't like him much. The Pharisee's were proud and boastful and treated the ordinary people badly. God in heaven knew this and Jesus on earth knew this so the story was told with them in mind. Knowing surrounding Bible verses and doctrine can help with logical rebuttal. Yet we must remember even with all the things he did, Jesus was not believed in by the many, only the few. So while some may listen to logical rebuttal, others may not.

 

[Yardstick]

I thought some of it was history and some of it was metaphorical?

It's history in as much as it's telling a story. The gospels for instance, where not interested in writing a biography of Jesus, they wanted to share with people why Jesus was so important.

 

[revanneosl]

Augustine wrote a nice little book called On Christian Doctrine in which he said that one must aways try first the literal reading of Scripture. But he also said that obviously some parts of scripture are not amenable to a literal reading.

So, once a literal reading has failed to reveal any sense, one should turn second to the allegorical reading. As in Woden's example - Jesus is clearly not talking about there literally being two men, one rich and the other Lazarus. It's allegorical.

If the allegorical reading also fails to satisfy, Aquinas said that we should third try the moral reading of the passage. Does it open up for us a window into God's teaching about how to live our lives?

If even that fails to open the passage to us, fourth we should turn to the anagogical reading - which is to say that we should read the passage as a window through which is revealed the cosmic glory of God.

On Christian Doctrine is a very short little book, and I couldn't recommend it more highly.