Please give scripture for and against burning

[whitesquaw]

in hell forever and everlasting. I would like to compare the scriptures that are used to justify we will burn eternal.

 

[k4c]

in hell forever and everlasting. I would like to compare the scriptures that are used to justify we will burn eternal.

The wicked will burn but not forever. There are some verses that seem to stay they will burn forever but it's important to use Scripture to interpret Scripture and see how God uses the same words in other verses.

 

[RND]

in hell forever and everlasting. I would like to compare the scriptures that are used to justify we will burn eternal.

See helltruth.com

 

[reddogs]

in hell forever and everlasting. I would like to compare the scriptures that are used to justify we will burn eternal.

Well a simple explanation is that “Sheol" is a Hebrew word used for the abode of the dead or grave. The word "Hades", the gloomy, twilight afterlife of Greek mythology, was in fact substituted for "Sheol" when the Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek . The New Testament (written in Greek) also uses "Hades" to refer to the abode of the dead. “Hades" is also translated “Hell” in many English Bibles, including the KJV. In Revelation 6:8, the King James Version refers to “Death, and Hell [Hades].” It does this same in Revelation 20:14. Yet some Bibles leave the word “Hades” itself, such as the New International Version, which translates Revelation 6:8 and 20:14 as “Death, and Hades.” Now here’s a key point: in Revelation 20:14 “Hades”(“Hell”) is eventually “cast into the lake of fire.” Thus “Hades” itself is not a fiery place, but is cast into “the lake of fire.” Thus Revelation 20:14 could properly be translated,“death and the grave were cast into the lake of fire.” To make it simple,“Hades” literally means “the grave.” Look at 1 Corinthians 15:55:
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

If you look in any Strong’s Concordance, you’ll discover that the original Greek word here translated “grave” is “Hades.”

 

[Keepon]

What do you mean the wicked will burn but not forever?

Please tell me?

Is that like an Adventist belief. Because the bible explicitly talks about eternal burning.

 

[Jimlarmore]

What do you mean the wicked will burn but not forever?

Please tell me?

Is that like an Adventist belief. Because the bible explicitly talks about eternal burning.

You are right the Bible does speak of eternal burning, however you have to take the entire Bible to really understand what it means when it "seems" to be saying that.

First off, think about this for a moment. The Bible over and over again says that the wicked will be "destroyed" or "perish" (John 3:16 ). So if they burned forever we have a problem already because they would not "perish" or be "destroyed" if they did.

Let me give you a few verses to show that the wicked will not burn forever.
1. Jude 7 which says, " Even as Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them in like manner giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh are set forth for and example suffering the vengence of ETERNAL FIRE

These cities were destroyed by God as an example of eternal fire. So are they still burning? No, they were destroyed by God and when the fire had done it's work it went out. The punishment was eternal but the punishing was not.

2. Mal 4:1-3 tells us what will happen when the fires of hell will burn:
" For behold the day cometh that shall burn as an oven and all the proud and yea and all the wicked SHALL BE STUBBLE and the day that cometh SHALL BURN THEM UP saith the Lord of hosts that it shall leave them neither root nor branch
verse 3, "And ye shall tread down the wicked for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

If they are ashes under our feet they are not burning, if they are left neither root nor branch they are not still burning, If they are stubble they are not still burning.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

Let me give you a few other verse to consider. Before I do let me say this. Eternal burning is intimately tied into the lie that satan started way back in the garden of eden when he told Eve that "Thou shalt not surely die" Gen 3:4. The Bible never tells us that the soul is immortal of itself. As a matter of fact the Bible clearly tells us that the soul will die.
Ezek 18:4 " Behold all Souls are Mine as the soul of the Father, so also the soul of the son is Mine: THE SOUL THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE.
This verse directly contradicts and refutes the lie that the soul is immortal.
1 Tim 6:16 " Who only hath immortality dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto whom no man hath seen nor can see to whom be honor and power everlasting"
This verse says only God naturally has immortality. He will give us immortality as a gift of salvation but we actually inherited the sin from our original father Adam and have a death sentence on us unless we are saved by grace thru faith.

One other thing to look at is this: Hell will burn right here on earth at the end of the thousand years and is not burning right now at all. Look at Rev. 20:5-9, these verses tells us that after the thousand years satan would go out to deceive the nations ( these are here on earth ) and they would surround the Holy City and at that time God would devour them with fire.

Now lets look at Rev21:5 where it says Jesus Christ would make all things new or recreate the earth again. Question: how could He do this if the fires of Hell were burning forever? Remember, it's the effect of the punishment that is eternal not the punishing itself. The wicked will be forever dead, there will be no resurrection from the second death.
God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

One of the things that I had problems with was Rev 14:11 which clearly says " And the smoke of their torment ascendth up forever and ever and they have no rest day nor night.
This certainly sounds like eternal fire, but lets use some logic. Have you ever burned something that produces smoke? Not too long ago we had huge prairie grass fires down in Texas and the smoke was visible in our air clear up here in N.E. Oklahoma. We weren't able to see the fire but we could see the smoke. Even after the fire was out we could still see the smoke rising in the atmosphere. The fact that the smoke rises forever does not mean the fire that produced it will burn forever. The fact that they will be tormented day and night to me means the burning will take more than one day to complete it's work. You have to use many verses and the entire Bible to get the whole truth of what the it teaches on this.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

One last thing I would like to say about "eternal burning" is this. It is an impunity on the very character of Almighty God Himself. When Jesus was here He taught us to pray beginning with "Our FATHER who are in heaven". Why would He tell us to referr to the Almighty Creator as our FATHER? He also said that if we who are evil know how to give good gifts to our children how much more will our FATHER give us good gifts? The point is multifacited.

1. Being a FATHER indicates a position of not only authority but of love.
2. The family is a model of what God set up in heaven.

What earthly father no matter how bad would punish his children for eternity? A God of love would never eternally torture His lost children. Being a God of love He gives us the freedom of choice. To choose to love Him or not. Love is only genuine if it has the right to turn away and not love or choose to not love. God would not want us to love Him from a position of fear. It's no wonder so many refuse to believe in God with this lie that God will punish the lost for eternity in the flames of Hell fire. I don't blame them. I could never serve a God who would do that and heaven would not be a place of bliss knowing that God was doing that either.

This lie is a ploy of satan and it all stems from the lie that the soul is immortal.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Keepon]

It sounds like you are using major exegisis. These arguments seem kind off weak, no offense.

The Citys were destroyed by God as an example of eternal fire. Of course the citys are not still burning.It was an example of Hell. An example can last only a little while, because after all it is an example and not the real thing.

2 Mal 4:1-3

So what if the wicked are "ashes under the soles of their feet". You say that, that means they are not burning. Well maybe you are right. But they are still dead, and suffering in hell, they are still suffering the Pain of the separation of God.
Therefore they are in hell suffering.


1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality"

So you are saying that means that only God has immortality?

St.Paul says in the Bible "All have sinned".

But he doesnt mean that all people have sinned, he means 'many have sinned'

We know that Jesus Christ did not sin, and we also know that newborn babys and the mentally retarded can not sin. So he means many have sinned.
St. Paul says that all have died, but we know that Enoch and Elijah did not die, they were assumed into heaven. So when St.Paul says that all have died he means many have died and when he says all have sinned he means many.

Read Jude 7,13 about how hell lasts for ever.

To Jimlamore, God is righteous, how could a good God allow people into his Kingdom that have rejected him and hate him? The only place is hell. You think that hell will not last forever, you are using human judging to go against the Bible, because the Bible talks about hell lasting forever. What happens when the evil person gets out of hell? Does God allow there demonic self to enter into his kingdom? I think that hell has to be Eternal or a lot less people would follow Jesus Christ, If you knew hell only lasted 14 years, and you heard you would go there if you didnt accept Jesus Christ alot of people would live a bad life, because they knew it was only 14 years. Hell has to be eternal, so we will be worthy of heaven and FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Man-ofGod]

It sounds like you are using major exegisis. These arguments seem kind off weak, no offense.

The Citys were destroyed by God as an example of eternal fire. Of course the citys are not still burning.It was an example of Hell. An example can last only a little while, because after all it is an example and not the real thing.

I understand what you are saying, but that is your interpretation. What I think he wanted to bring to your attention was the linguistic behavior of the passage. I like the KJV here,
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Notice that this passage does declares that eternal fire was poured out on Sodom "uffering the vengeance of eternal fire" yet Sodom is not burning. To be clear, Eternal is the description of the fire, not a description of wicked man.


2 Mal 4:1-3

So what if the wicked are "ashes under the soles of their feet". You say that, that means they are not burning. Well maybe you are right. But they are still dead, and suffering in hell, they are still suffering the Pain of the separation of God.
Therefore they are in hell suffering.

If they are dead how can they still be suffering? I know what you are surmising but I want you to reflect on that question briefly.

1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality"

So you are saying that means that only God has immortality?

Jesus has or possess immortality. He has the keys to Keys to the Grave as Rev 1:18 puts it. Therefore, he has the ability to give it to those who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev 12:17

St.Paul says in the Bible "All have sinned".

But he doesnt mean that all people have sinned, he means 'many have sinned'

We know that Jesus Christ did not sin, and we also know that newborn babys and the mentally retarded can not sin. So he means many have sinned.
[/quotes]
Little off topic, but the assumption would be that you apply that teaching to yourself and realize that you (figuratively speaking) are a sinner.

St. Paul says that all have died, but we know that Enoch and Elijah did not die, they were assumed into heaven. So when St.Paul says that all have died he means many have died and when he says all have sinned he means many.

Read Jude 7,13 about how hell lasts for ever.

To Jimlamore, God is righteous, how could a good God allow people into his Kingdom that have rejected him and hate him? The only place is hell. You think that hell will not last forever, you are using human judging to go against the Bible, because the Bible talks about hell lasting forever. What happens when the evil person gets out of hell? Does God allow there demonic self to enter into his kingdom? I think that hell has to be Eternal or a lot less people would follow Jesus Christ, If you knew hell only lasted 14 years, and you heard you would go there if you didnt accept Jesus Christ alot of people would live a bad life, because they knew it was only 14 years. Hell has to be eternal, so we will be worthy of heaven and FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST.

I do not need to think that Hell last forever in order to follow Jesus. I follow Jesus out of love. I understand that fear can be a motivator at times, but a relationship ultimately must have love in order to thrive.

 

[Jimlarmore]

It sounds like you are using major exegisis. These arguments seem kind off weak, no offense.

The Citys were destroyed by God as an example of eternal fire. Of course the citys are not still burning.It was an example of Hell. An example can last only a little while, because after all it is an example and not the real thing.

An example is something that is similar. A ford car is a motorized vehicle. A chevy may not be the real deal or a ford but it's an example of a motorized vehicle. You say an example can only last a little while but you give no valid rationale as to why your statement is true.

2 Mal 4:1-3

So what if the wicked are "ashes under the soles of their feet". You say that, that means they are not burning. Well maybe you are right. But they are still dead, and suffering in hell, they are still suffering the Pain of the separation of God.
Therefore they are in hell suffering.

If they are dead they are not suffering physical pain in any hell. How do you explain any way ashes are can be suffering physical pain?

1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality"

So you are saying that means that only God has immortality?

St.Paul says in the Bible "All have sinned".

But he doesnt mean that all people have sinned, he means 'many have sinned'

We know that Jesus Christ did not sin, and we also know that newborn babys and the mentally retarded can not sin. So he means many have sinned.
St. Paul says that all have died, but we know that Enoch and Elijah did not die, they were assumed into heaven. So when St.Paul says that all have died he means many have died and when he says all have sinned he means many.

Ok, but I still can't find anywhere in the Bible where it says the wicked will be given eternal life. I can only find verses that say those who will be lost are destroyed, burned up to ashes, into smoke. In Ezek 18:4 the Bible specifically says that the soul that sins will die, that makes it clear that the soul can die. Also in Ezek 28:18 the Bible speaking of the destruction of satan says a fire would be brought from his midst, he would be reduced to ashes and never would he be anymore. If anyone deserves to burn forever satan would but even he will be destroyed.

Read Jude 7,13 about how hell lasts for ever.

To Jimlamore, God is righteous, how could a good God allow people into his Kingdom that have rejected him and hate him? The only place is hell. You think that hell will not last forever, you are using human judging to go against the Bible, because the Bible talks about hell lasting forever. What happens when the evil person gets out of hell? Does God allow there demonic self to enter into his kingdom? I think that hell has to be Eternal or a lot less people would follow Jesus Christ, If you knew hell only lasted 14 years, and you heard you would go there if you didnt accept Jesus Christ alot of people would live a bad life, because they knew it was only 14 years. Hell has to be eternal, so we will be worthy of heaven and FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST.

I have to respectfully not only reject your belief but if you honestly believe that then you worship a monster. No real God of love would torture eternally a being who lived only a few years on this earth. No my friend, this lie is a huge impunity on the character of a loving God.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Keepon]

I got this off biblehelp.ccom

Is the punishment of Hell eternal? Will a person sent to Hell have to stay there for eternity, or will God, after a period of time, show special mercy and end the punishment? If God does end their punishment, will He do it by terminating their existence or will He allow them to go to Heaven? If God is going to end their punishment by terminating their existence, wouldn’t it be even better if He simply terminated their existence without even sending them to Hell (as the Jehovah Witnesses believe)?
If you were to survey the fundamental churches, you would probably find that most, if not all of them believe the punishment of Hell is for eternity. Yet, if you were to talk privately to many of the members in these congregations, they would secretly express their doubts. They would tell you they have a hard time understanding how God could keep the "sweet old grandma" in Hell for eternity. They have no problem with people like Hitler being kept in Hell for eternity, but they can’t see why a "good" person should be kept in eternal punishment.
Although the idea of a reduced term in Hell seems similar to the doctrine of purgatory, these Christians are quick to point out it isn’t. In purgatory, a person "works off" his sentence by being punished. These Christians don’t believe this. They believe a person’s sentence is reduced because of God’s mercy. Incidentally, several hundred years ago, someone calculated (don’t ask me how) that a person would be in purgatory for exactly 1,902,202 years and 270 days to pay for their sinful life (source: film called Martin Luther).
What does the Bible say about this issue? It obviously doesn’t matter what we think God is going to do, it only matters what God is actually going to do. Remember, God’s judgment of us will not be based on how we compare to other people, rather, it will be based on how we compare to His standard.
A six-foot tall man is much taller than a four-foot tall man. The difference is quite obvious. Yet, when you compare these two men next to a 60’ foot light post, the men look quite similar in height. Likewise, when you compare a "good" person next to Hitler, we can see a major difference. However, when you compare them against God’s high standard, the difference between Hitler and the "good" person shrinks tremendously.
As discussed in other chapters, we must take our doctrines from the Bible. If the Bible is clear on a subject, we are bound to follow its teaching. So, the question is, does the Bible clearly teach the punishment of Hell will be forever? Hell, of course, was created for the fallen angels. The Bible does say these demons will be punished in Hell for eternity. The following verses talk about Hell being forever:
Mt 25:41 "… eternal fires prepared for the devil and his angels."Jude 6 The angels will be bound with "everlasting chains."Rev. 20:10 The devil, beast, and false prophet being tormented "forever and ever."Mt. 18:8 "… thrown into eternal fire."Mk 9:43 "…fire never goes out."Mk 9:48 "…worm never dies and the fire is not quenched."Is. 33:14 "… with everlasting burning."Luke 3:17 "… with unquenchable fire."Mt. 3:12 "… with unquenchable fire."
The Christians who believe in limited punishment point to the fact that Hell was not created for the fallen human race, but rather for the fallen angels. They say it is the angels who will be punished for eternity, not the humans. Therefore, the verses talking about the eternal fires only mean the fires will be burning forever for the demons.
Although I would love to believe Hell is only a temporary punishment for humans, I cannot find any verses that indicate it. I do not like the idea of a person being punished for eternity, especially the "sweet old grandmother." As much as I dislike the concept of eternal punishment, I have to abide by what the Bible teaches. The question is, therefore, what does the Bible say about punishment for the fallen human race. Following are verses that deal with the punishment for humans:
Mt. 25:46"They will go away to eternal punishment."Heb. 6:2"… the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."Jude 7The people of Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example of those who suffer the "punishment of eternal fires."Dan. 12:2"… some to everlasting life, other to shame and everlasting contempt."
2 Th. 1:9 "…they will be punished with everlasting destruction."Gal. 1:8 If someone preaches another gospel, he is to be "eternally condemned."Is. 66:24 Those that rebelled against God, "Their worm will not die, nor will the fire be quenched."Rev. 14:10-11 "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever"Mk. 3:29 Those who blaspheme will be guilty of an "eternal sin."Is. 34:8-10 "Lord has a day of vengeance … it will not be quenched night or day. Its smoke will rise forever."
The Bible does teach the punishment in Hell will last forever. I don’t understand it nor do I like it. I am, however, obligated to accept it. I have two choices: I can either spend my time thinking about how unfair God is for doing this, or I can spend my time and energy trying to find ways to keep people from going to Hell in the first place.

​

 

[Man-ofGod]

I got this off biblehelp.ccom

Is the punishment of Hell eternal? Will a person sent to Hell have to stay there for eternity, or will God, after a period of time, show special mercy and end the punishment? If God does end their punishment, will He do it by terminating their existence or will He allow them to go to Heaven? If God is going to end their punishment by terminating their existence, wouldn’t it be even better if He simply terminated their existence without even sending them to Hell (as the Jehovah Witnesses believe)?
If you were to survey the fundamental churches, you would probably find that most, if not all of them believe the punishment of Hell is for eternity. Yet, if you were to talk privately to many of the members in these congregations, they would secretly express their doubts. They would tell you they have a hard time understanding how God could keep the "sweet old grandma" in Hell for eternity. They have no problem with people like Hitler being kept in Hell for eternity, but they can’t see why a "good" person should be kept in eternal punishment.
Although the idea of a reduced term in Hell seems similar to the doctrine of purgatory, these Christians are quick to point out it isn’t. In purgatory, a person "works off" his sentence by being punished. These Christians don’t believe this. They believe a person’s sentence is reduced because of God’s mercy. Incidentally, several hundred years ago, someone calculated (don’t ask me how) that a person would be in purgatory for exactly 1,902,202 years and 270 days to pay for their sinful life (source: film called Martin Luther).
What does the Bible say about this issue? It obviously doesn’t matter what we think God is going to do, it only matters what God is actually going to do. Remember, God’s judgment of us will not be based on how we compare to other people, rather, it will be based on how we compare to His standard.
A six-foot tall man is much taller than a four-foot tall man. The difference is quite obvious. Yet, when you compare these two men next to a 60’ foot light post, the men look quite similar in height. Likewise, when you compare a "good" person next to Hitler, we can see a major difference. However, when you compare them against God’s high standard, the difference between Hitler and the "good" person shrinks tremendously.
As discussed in other chapters, we must take our doctrines from the Bible. If the Bible is clear on a subject, we are bound to follow its teaching. So, the question is, does the Bible clearly teach the punishment of Hell will be forever? Hell, of course, was created for the fallen angels. The Bible does say these demons will be punished in Hell for eternity. The following verses talk about Hell being forever:
Mt 25:41 "… eternal fires prepared for the devil and his angels."Jude 6 The angels will be bound with "everlasting chains."Rev. 20:10 The devil, beast, and false prophet being tormented "forever and ever."Mt. 18:8 "… thrown into eternal fire."Mk 9:43 "…fire never goes out."Mk 9:48 "…worm never dies and the fire is not quenched."Is. 33:14 "… with everlasting burning."Luke 3:17 "… with unquenchable fire."Mt. 3:12 "… with unquenchable fire."
The Christians who believe in limited punishment point to the fact that Hell was not created for the fallen human race, but rather for the fallen angels. They say it is the angels who will be punished for eternity, not the humans. Therefore, the verses talking about the eternal fires only mean the fires will be burning forever for the demons.
Although I would love to believe Hell is only a temporary punishment for humans, I cannot find any verses that indicate it. I do not like the idea of a person being punished for eternity, especially the "sweet old grandmother." As much as I dislike the concept of eternal punishment, I have to abide by what the Bible teaches. The question is, therefore, what does the Bible say about punishment for the fallen human race. Following are verses that deal with the punishment for humans:
Mt. 25:46"They will go away to eternal punishment."Heb. 6:2"… the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."Jude 7The people of Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example of those who suffer the "punishment of eternal fires."Dan. 12:2"… some to everlasting life, other to shame and everlasting contempt."
2 Th. 1:9 "…they will be punished with everlasting destruction."Gal. 1:8 If someone preaches another gospel, he is to be "eternally condemned."Is. 66:24 Those that rebelled against God, "Their worm will not die, nor will the fire be quenched."Rev. 14:10-11 "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever"Mk. 3:29 Those who blaspheme will be guilty of an "eternal sin."Is. 34:8-10 "Lord has a day of vengeance … it will not be quenched night or day. Its smoke will rise forever."
The Bible does teach the punishment in Hell will last forever. I don’t understand it nor do I like it. I am, however, obligated to accept it. I have two choices: I can either spend my time thinking about how unfair God is for doing this, or I can spend my time and energy trying to find ways to keep people from going to Hell in the first place.

​

Again, the word eternal is an adjective for the fire. In the same way, the word "everlasting" in the phrase "everlasting destruction" is an adjective for destruction. This denotes something that will be completely destroyed. Finally, the word forever in the phrase "tormented forever" in both the Hebrew and Greek is identical to its English counterpart. You have to allow for elasticity when using a particular word. In English we may say, "this trip took forever" or "I was in line forever." In the same way, the torment will not cease until the object of that torment is consumed.



To help clarify the death/hell issue, please view the passages below:

job 20:6-8 (New Living Translation)


6 Though the pride of the godless reaches to the heavens
and their heads touch the clouds,
7 yet they will vanish forever,
thrown away like their own dung.
Those who knew them will ask,
‘Where are they?’

Job 4:19-21 (King James Version)

19How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?

20They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.

21Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.

Psalm 89:48 (NLT)
No one can live forever; all will die.No one can escape the power of the grave.

Psalm 102:26 (NLT)
They will perish, but you remain forever;...


Hope that clears things up. When studying your Bible, you have to put your own will/tradition aside and see what the Bible has to say. I come from a background that believed in eternal life in hell. Yet, here I am.

For more clarity, please see John 3:16.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Also in the Bible there are instances where the word "forever" or "eternal" is used and yet we know that it does not mean for the ceaseless ages of eternity. The gates of Jerusalem were said to be burned with eternal flames when Jerusalem was destroyed yet they are not still burning. Hannah gave Samuel to the service of the temple "forever" yet we know that it only meant as long as he lived. The strongest verses to me are Mal 4:1-3 and the ones that tell of the new creation after hell fires flames burn out. Jesus could not re-create a new earth here if the flames burning here were eternal.

God Bless
Jim Larmore