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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Playing mmorpg's ..

Aimee30

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If it were the case that we were influenced by violence to create violence, then never watch any of the Christian movies I have watched. Sometimes restrictions on age should be followed.
Mostly people's attitudes or the way they act make me want to reach out and strangle someone, not what I see on TV. Although I don't watch most of what's on TV since I no longer find it entertaining--I would rather see more creativity and less senseless acts so I can get something out of it besides what may be Attention Deficiency Disorder. But that's me, I have begun to like books better.
I don't play the most violent games--you know the mature rated ones, because I really don't need realism, I like imagining what's going on--makes the game more mysterious. However, I may not play games much any more any way, because I don't like not being able to solve them ever and well, it is pointless with all that I have to do otherwise.
I guess your case is one where you have to 'judge for yourself between right and wrong.'
 
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xAtheistx

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Call me sick and twisted, but I never saw any reason to prevent kids from seeing blood, or gore...
I think America makes too much fuss about sex, too, but one step at a time, right?

I'm not pretending kids are "mature." Most aren't. But what's so wrong with letting them see some guy's head getting blown off? It's all CGI nowadays anyway. You're worried your 5 year old might have nightmares? Psssht please. They have nightmares anyway. They'll just be more accepting of the real world's cruelty if you don't hide them from the violence early... so long as they can distinguish between right and wrong, fantasy and reality (a lot of children can't, I know that)...
 
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tartmold said:
There's a topic about first person shooters but what about online games like World of warcraft and Guild Wars where killing is a major part even if its just for fun ... Is it bad? I've played them for a few years but now that I've gotten older im realizing my sins and trying to correct them. Should I quit playing games like this? Thanks for the replies.

Since it is not directly mentioned in the Bible, I would say that if you feel that it is wrong and or sin then it is wrong. If not then to you it is not. I would say from experience though....play in moderation...don't let it consume your life. Maintain your relationships above the game because afterall it is just a game. That is my opinion.
 
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xAtheistx said:
Call me sick and twisted, but I never saw any reason to prevent kids from seeing blood, or gore...
I think America makes too much fuss about sex, too, but one step at a time, right?

I'm not pretending kids are "mature." Most aren't. But what's so wrong with letting them see some guy's head getting blown off? It's all CGI nowadays anyway. You're worried your 5 year old might have nightmares? Psssht please. They have nightmares anyway. They'll just be more accepting of the real world's cruelty if you don't hide them from the violence early... so long as they can distinguish between right and wrong, fantasy and reality (a lot of children can't, I know that)...

Psychologists have actually proven now that children who play violent video games are much more likely to be violent themselves. Just thought I would let you know.
 
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Maynard Keenan said:
Correlation does not prove causation. I find it much more likely that people inclined to violence will choose violent entertainment.
No it doesn't...there is proof now that children who play violent video games are statisticlly much more likey to become violent.
 
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xAtheistx

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I read that in a local newspaper, something about a mere 10 minutes of violent video games making 5 year olds like, twice as hostile... I think it's funny.

My character just shot five nazis! I think I'll go punch my older brother! Yay!

/\
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llll

Perfect example of flawed logic.
 
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xAtheistx said:
I read that in a local newspaper, something about a mere 10 minutes of violent video games making 5 year olds like, twice as hostile... I think it's funny.

My character just shot five nazis! I think I'll go punch my older brother! Yay!

/\
llll
llll

Perfect example of flawed logic.

Violence is not the answer friend....you should love your brother, and if you must then get a two player game and play against each other......I am just stating what I read in my developmental psychology book at college....I will admit they have been wrong before.
 
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Mariette

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Ok, to those who quoted me. You obviously clearly missed the point of what I was saying.

First off, the percentages are low because the incident took place over 7 years ago and I can't quite recall which reporter or broadcast had which specialist on to give those figures but I can assure you they were incredibly low, under 10%.

Secondly, I never said that the years of bullying didn't effect them. What I said was:
Remember Columbine when reporters said it was violent video games that influenced Eric and Dylan? Remember what the Prez wanted to do? Abolish violent music and games and movies? Too bad the gaming business on it's own is a multi-BILLION dollar industry. Can't abolish something that's inevitably paying you. lol

If you're going to quote me, don't quote only a partial bit in which you can use to twist the words around for your own agenda.

The games Eric and Dylan played and the music they listened to did little to make them take action. What made them take action is :
1 - I'm sure they had some sort of mental illness.
2 - They were tired of being bugged, harassed, bullied picked on, humiliated, dehumanized, terrorized etc from other kids.
3 -They were frustrated that their cries for help, their reports to those in power (school administration) fell on deaf ears.

They did what they did because to them it was the last resort.

Not once, did I ever insinuate that video games influenced their decision. Not once did I imply that violent music, movies or games was the single cause of what they did.

So again, before you quote me, put your personal agenda aside and quote me in entireity.

The media went into a frenzy when it found out that Eric and Dylan listened to Marilyn Manson. Why? Because he's untraditional. His music is questionable to the parents trying to raise kids. He doesn't fit in with the norm. Which is why the reports attacked his reputation by saying that his lyrics cause children to become violent. That his lyrics and his stage performances and the performances of people like him (Ozzy Ozborne, Twisted Sister, SlipKnot, etc) are the soul cause of the sudden incline of school shootings that the years 1997-present are seeing.

The President, Clinton if I belief, vowed to ban violence in video games, in movies and in music. They, the government and media, believed they had a quick solution a very deep seeded problem. Only problem is:

The video gaming industry is a multi-BILLION dollar industry. And lots of that money gets trickled back to the government.

The movie industry is the same, creating jobs for many people who each pay taxes resulting in money going BACK to the government.

Music industry? Same. People buy cds, pay tickets, buy merchandise all of which a portion goes back to the government.

So you see why the government couldn't possibly had made all these things banned. How many of you would spend $70 on a video game entitled "Happy Harry and his Little House of Candy".. or some other such drivel?

In a time of crisis, people will look for the easiest answer. The easiest answer during Columbine was not that these boys had been terrorized at school and inevitably been ignored by the teachers, the easiest answer was that Marilyn Manson and violent video games were the problem. A much easier answer to dish out then saying "yes, our school system screwed up. The teachers failed to listen and/or act against the bullies" or "yes, we screwed up, we knew what was going on but we wanted to maintain a good image so everything was swept under the rug"

That was exactly what MY school did when I was the one going through the same problems that Eric and Dylan went through. Small town, only 200 kids in the high school. Every day I was terrified to go to school.

These are some of the things I encountered while going to school there.
-I was almost run over in the parking lot by a guy who had seen me about to cross and gunned it intentionally.
-I had frozen beer bottles thrown at me from a passing car while I was walking home at the age of 13 with the words "You're going to die *****"
-I was strangled until I passed out on school property when I was in grade 2.
-Every day in classes I was tripped, kicked, punched, laughed at, spat on, insulted, demeaned.
-My head was slammed into lockers more times then I can remember.
-When I was on crutches for an ankle problem I was cornered in the hallway and they were taken from me. I was then beaten over the back with them.
-I had chemicals thrown at me in science class.
-Gym class; Lacross was another way to see who could break my fingers and get away with it.
-I was terrorized in the girls change room by girls who held me naked, in the shower, under cold water and then stole my clothes.
-Two boys came into the change room once and a group of girls were threatening to hold me down. The guys chickened out.
-I had teachers telling me to my face that I was stupid and it was a waste of their time even trying to teach me.

And you know what happened with the police were called in? The teachers and the principal all went "We never heard a thing about it...she's never complained." I made several complaints, and many of the incidents happened in class infront of the teacher. When my parents were brought in they were told by the teachers that it was THEIR fault for raising a daughter who was easilly picked on.

That's the problem with schools during incidents like Columbine. They look for a scapegoat. One that the population will turn to and put the blame on. They need a scapegoat because no one will say "yea, we messed up. We didnt listen to their complaints, we didn't take it seriously so on and so forth"....

Blah, now I've really babbled.

My point was:

Violent video games and music are not the cause to these problems. The problems existed long before they even came into the picture. It's how adults and specifically adults in power want to deal with them that is the cause of what happens. Instead of fixing the problem head on, society wants to find the easiest way out. The one that involves the least work. Which is why they blamed video games/movies and that's why the Pres said he'd ban them. He knew he couldn't, but it would sate the peoples thirst for an answer. This was much easier and cheaper then dealing with the teachers, principals and school staff who sat on the sidelines watching the assaults and teasing happen.

~Mari
 
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Abbadon

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t1wGl said:
Violence is not the answer friend....you should love your brother, and if you must then get a two player game and play against each other......I am just stating what I read in my developmental psychology book at college....I will admit they have been wrong before.


Did you read his post?

He was providing an example of flawed logic.

He said:

xAtheistx said:
I read that in a local newspaper, something about a mere 10 minutes of violent video games making 5 year olds like, twice as hostile... I think it's funny.

My character just shot five nazis! I think I'll go punch my older brother! Yay!

/\
llll
llll

Perfect example of flawed logic.

I placed some emphasis into his post, to make it a bit more obvious.

t1wGl said:
You know you can't say that smoking causes cancer only that their is a correlation between the two.

Not quite the same. It's possible to argue that people that are violent are more likely to play violent video games, which you can't argue with cigarettes and cancer.

Actually, it's more likely that people whose parents didn't teach them compassion are more likely to be bad people, they just express it in different ways.

You raise a kid to be a really evil person. Raise them with violent influences, and they'll do physical violence. Raise them without violent influences, and they'll do emotional and spiritual violence.

t1wGl said:
Psychologists have actually proven now that children who play violent video games are much more likely to be violent themselves. Just thought I would let you know.

I'm not a decade older than the first person shooter genre itself, and I've been playing it since it came out.

Am I any more violent than you're average citizen? No, actually, compared to the average person throughout history, I'm less violent. As I grew, the more I played those games. As I grew, I became less violent.

Games don't matter. It's the parents and how they bring up the kid.
 
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