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Pita bread for communion

tadoflamb

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Pita is unleavened bread. If it's made with only wheat and water and is unleaved (you know, being made only of wheat and water) then it's fine.

In fact the unleavened bread of the Last Supper, you know when Jesus first started this whole Eucharist gig---was pretty much pita bread.

I've looked up the recipe for pita bread and it does have yeast in it.

This bread was more like what Gwendolyn has described. This was at a campus church as well. I'm not sure if was really a commercial pita bread, or if anyone made it. At any rate, it was fluffy and tasted sweet. A seminarian and a EHMC (in his shorts and t-shirt) were given the task of frantically breaking the bread into consumable pieces which brings up the issue of excessive fragments. It was a pretty gnarly sight.
 
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_Shannon_

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Yeah--sweetend bread or commercial pita...uh...no. Very likely the parish has been without a full time pstor or...uh..what are they called? campus minister?? The priest situation is very dire. Liturgical abuse is rampant and the laity, in the absence of clergy, have seriously run amuck in regards to power structures in many parishes.

In all of that area--the only place I EVER went to Mass and it was NOT insane was the parish in Jackson Hole. Even Mass at the cathedral in Salt Lake City was kind of bizzarro.
 
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_Shannon_

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Thank you for giving me a chance to practice charity. What a blessing you are!!!:kiss:

And I meant "not" insane..which most people probably gathered from the context. I've been typing with a crabby, teething baby in my lap (the only time I bother coming on this site is when I'm immobilized with a nursathon), and make a lot of typing errors. A lot.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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Now I am hungry for pita bread. =/

^_^

The wafers are stupid. They are so ridiculously unbread-like, it completely divorces Holy Communion from it's Biblical roots. Unleavened bread which resembles.....bread, make so much more sense.

I see what you mean, but what I like about the wafers is that since i never eat anything like that apart from Communion, I associate them only with the Eucharist.... I guess that makes it more special in a way

I've looked up the recipe for pita bread and it does have yeast in it.

This bread was more like what Gwendolyn has described. This was at a campus church as well. I'm not sure if was really a commercial pita bread, or if anyone made it. At any rate, it was fluffy and tasted sweet. A seminarian and a EHMC (in his shorts and t-shirt) were given the task of frantically breaking the bread into consumable pieces which brings up the issue of excessive fragments. It was a pretty gnarly sight.

sounds very ......liberal? :(

was the bread soft/cheweable? or was it like the wafers, which kind of dissolve in your mouth?

I have a bit of an issue with churches that use commercial (grocery store) bread for Communion.. I've only ever seen this done in Protestant churches though. In Catholic churches they buy the wafers that are specially made, and in the Orthodox or Eastern Catholic churches, they usually make the bread.... I don't think it's the best idea to just go get it from a grocery store. :sorry:

Unfortunately, yes :(

:( I hope this is just some liturgical abuse that would stop. It's not according to the rubrics at all.. proper form AND matter is important.
 
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Rhamiel

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i hear that the waffer came from the middle ages when little soft waffers were eaten with the main course at dinner, you used them to grab the meat, no forks needed
and then we just kinda kept them over the ages, I do not know if this is true or not, just what i heard
 
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christianmomof3

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In Catholic churches they buy the wafers that are specially made, and in the Orthodox or Eastern Catholic churches, they usually make the bread....

I hope this is just some liturgical abuse that would stop. It's not according to the rubrics at all.. proper form AND matter is important.
We make our bread for the table meeting. It is just flour and water - make a dough, let it rest, make a ball, roll it out thin and round - pray while making bread - bake it and that is it.

However, that would not have been what the Israelites ate while fleeing Egypt in the original Passover, nor would it have been the bread that Jesus ate with His disciples. There was no white flour then - it would have been whole grain flour and may have been any variety of grain or grains.

I never knew there was a "rubric" for communion bread.
And as far as "proper" - really, all we know for sure is that it was unleavened bread.
For all we know it could have been full of nuts and honey.
All this "rubric" and "proper form and matter" is man made rules and regulations.
 
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TheOtherHockeyMom

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I must be lucky.

The parish I visit in Sedona does this. There's also a parish I used to attend that uses pita as well as the parish I just visited in Montana.

The parish in Montana was so stripped down, and the people so irreverent I'm wondering if that's a result of having an invalid sacrament.
Hope you didn't visit our parish in Montana :D

And I'd like to add, that my area in Montana is heavily Catholic, and quite reverent. For a town of the size of the one I live in, there are 6 or 7 churches...a few years ago, while living in Texas in a town about three times the size of where I was living, there were only 2 (and no Catholic school there in Texas either, but my son will start Catholic school here very soon).
 
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PilgrimToChrist

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It was probably more dense and may not have been wheat, but could have been barley or some other grain or a mix of grains possibly couldn't it have been? Perhaps sprouted grain like ezekiel bread? It was most likely not wafer thin.

It was wheat. The shape of the bread is irrelevant.
 
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Jay217

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The wafers are stupid. They are so ridiculously unbread-like, it completely divorces Holy Communion from it's Biblical roots. Unleavened bread which resembles.....bread, make so much more sense.


I thought the wafer was supposed to be Jesus' Flesh not bread :p
 
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Rhamiel

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Took Communion today, choice was Pita or Rice Cracker (if you were allergic to gluten...) And the "wine" was grape juice. Despite the inferior substances it seemed to work just fine. :)
my mom is methodist, they only have communion once a month at her church, is that how it is for your church too?
anyways, since the Methodist community does not have valid Holy Orders, that means they do not have priests, and no real priests means no real Eucharist
 
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jacks

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my mom is Methodist, they only have communion once a month at her church, is that how it is for your church too?
anyways, since the Methodist community does not have valid Holy Orders, that means they do not have priests, and no real priests means no real Eucharist

Yes, usually just on the first Sunday of the Month. You'd think since we don't do it very often, they could spring for the good bread...
 
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PilgrimToChrist

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We make our bread for the table meeting.

032908_gov_meeting_table.jpg


Knights%20at%20the%20Round%20Table.jpg


However, that would not have been what the Israelites ate while fleeing Egypt in the original Passover,
The Institution of the Eucharist was not a Passover meal. It was what the Passover meals were looking forward to. There is a distinction there. It is the reality, not the type or foreshadowing. The Last Supper is a not a participation in the Passover meal (seder), it is a participation in the Passion. Christ most certainly did not celebrate what we know as a the Jewish seder because the seder looks forward to the coming of the Messiah and Christ is the Messiah. That is also why it is gravely sinful to participate in Jewish seders or so-called "Christian seders".

Everything in Creation comes together in Christ. There were two sacrifices in the Jewish Temple -- the bloody and the unbloody, the sacrifice of animals and the sacrifice of bread and wine. Christ fulfills them both in His Passion. The bloody offering He made once, the unbloody offering He made at the Last Supper and renews daily on our altars around the world but they constitute a single sacrifice. The form of the Eucharist -- the words used -- comes from the Last Supper but the focus is not the "meal" aspect but on Christ's sacrifice of the Cross. We eat of the sacrifice of the altar in order to participate in it, but the eating is not the primary focus. It is Communion with Christ, it is only adjunctly communion with our neighbors which comes from our common Communion with Christ.

1Cor 10:18-21 said:
Behold Israel according to the flesh. Are not they that eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What then? Do I say that what is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? Or that the idol is any thing? But the things which the heathens sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils and not to God. And I would not that you should be made partakers with devils. You cannot drink the chalice of the Lord and the chalice of devils: you cannot be partakers of the table of the Lord and of the table of devils.

A sacrifice is completed -- Jewish, pagan or Christian -- when those present partake of the sacrificial victim. It is that way in which they participate in the sacrifice, in which we participate in the Sacrifice of Christ and partake of the Risen Lord, receiving His Grace.

nor would it have been the bread that Jesus ate with His disciples. There was no white flour then - it would have been whole grain flour and may have been any variety of grain or grains.
The ancients had white bread. In the 19th c., industrialization made it more readily available but it was always possible to make white flour, it's just a mechanical process of milling or boulting to separate the components. This is not to say that it was white bread but white bread was certainly available. It must, however, be made of the finest available wheat and fresh -- suitable for the King.

I never knew there was a "rubric" for communion bread.
And as far as "proper" - really, all we know for sure is that it was unleavened bread.
Do we now?

Mt 26:17 said:
And on the first day of the Azymes [ἀζύμων - unleavened bread], the disciples came to Jesus, saying: Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the pasch?

But does Christ eat unleavened bread?

Mt 26:26 said:
And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread [ἄρτον - leavened bread] and blessed and broke and gave to his disciples and said: Take ye and eat. This is my body.

Not a single one of the Gospels records Christ eating unleavened bread (ἀζύμων) at the Last Supper, rather He used leavened bread (ἄρτον). On the other hand, others note that ἄρτον can refer to unleavened bread, it is just generic and leavened is assumed (in English it is similar, if I said I was going to eat some bread, you would assume it would not be crackers but a normal, leavened loaf).

So therefore, it is ambiguous whether Christ ate leavened or unleavened bread at the Last Supper. However, it is irrelevant since both have been used in the Church since antiquity. In the West, the unleavened tradition prevailed and the East (with a few exceptions) maintained the leavened tradition.

Christ used bread, size, shape, leavened or unleavened -- it doesn't matter. There is great symbolism and history behind both the Eastern (leavened) and Western (unleavened) traditions.

For all we know it could have been full of nuts and honey.
No, it couldn't have. How can you insist that it be unleavened because of the Passover regulations and then state that it could have been full of nuts and honey? Just pure wheat bread.

All this "rubric" and "proper form and matter" is man made rules and regulations.
Some yes, some no. For example, I can't decide to baptize someone with a glass of milk, that's not what Christ instituted, it would be invalid because of a defect of matter -- only water may be used. I can't decide to celebrate the Eucharist with a steak and a glass of beer. I can't marry a pig. I can't ordain a woman. Certain things -- those which invalidate the Sacrament -- are instituted by God and thus are not "man made rules and regulations".

Those things which are man-made, such as the method of baptizing (immersion, effusion, once or thrice), certain attributes of the Eucharistic elements (leavened or unleavened), the prayers used in the liturgy, etc. But this does not mean they are unimportant or can be dispensed with. They are part of the tradition of the Church, the means by which the faith is passed down and thus they are subject to the authority of the Church. Also, remember that "custom has the force of law" and cannot be changed haphazardly.

This is why using pita bread for the Sacrament is valid (it conforms to Christ's institution of the Eucharist, which necessitates only wheaten bread) but yet is illicit (because the Church has decreed that only unleavened bread be used within the Latin Rite). So therefore, the Sacrament is valid and it is truly Our Eucharistic Lord in the Sacrament but the celebrant sins in confecting the Sacrament with illicit matter.
 
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Jay217

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IIRC much of the ideas where passed down from Judaism as the Jews had the sacrifice of the unblemished cow and sheep they also had the sacrifice of bread... not any bread... UNLEAVENED Bread.

It's been a tradition to use unleavened bread for sacrifices only now its the flesh of the ultimate sacrifice - Jesus Christ.
 
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