Pirated software

[Silent Bob]

As it has been mentioned open source programs are the way to the future. If you know how to look for stuff you can pretty much do anything you want with open source software. There are situation where you are forced to use non-free software however, windows being one example (I know linux rulez but not all programs can run on linux) another example occured to me while writting a thesis. I had to submit the thing in .doc format and my normal Open Office couldn't save in doc format while preserving some formating (the ToC, page numbering etc) so I had to use MS Office borrowed from a friend. I did my thesis, submited, uninstalled M$ Office right away and kept using Open Office which I find better.

Did I sin in the eyes of the Allmighty? Should I pay 200$ or leave the comfort of my home to live in the library for two weeks? No thanks!

 

[trunks2k]

(neither confirming nor denying the original statement)

If I had the money, I would drive a Porsche. But I don't, therefore I will steal one instead. Does that sound right to you?

But I think there's a difference between the two. An electronic copy of something doesn't cost the producer anything. If you steal a car, that car has to be replaced, which costs time money and effort. If I make a copy of a piece of software, and give it to a friend who cannot afford it, but would have bought it if he had the funds, nothing needs to be replaced. There is no new CD that needs to be made. The software does not need to be re-written.

At most, you could argue that due to piracy, people have to invest in anti-piracy measures. But I think right now, the effort put in to either create or get a pirated copy of software isn't worth it for the average-Joe user.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

I think that if you don't have any other ways to record, then you should do it. It can't be immoral if you have no other choice.

And if you don't have any other way to get to the store, then you should steal someone's car. It can't be immoral if you have no other choice.

Please. He has the choice. He can use illegally obtained software or not. Don't give us "he has no choice".

 

[*Starlight*]

And if you don't have any other way to get to the store, then you should steal someone's car. It can't be immoral if you have no other choice.

Please. He has the choice. He can use illegally obtained software or not. Don't give us "he has no choice".

Well, if that person could just copy the car from someone else, so that the other person wouldn't lose it, and he or she really needed it, then I wouldn't see it as immoral too. But stealing is something so different that it can't be compared to this in any way.

 

[TimmyPage]

Things like.. Photoshop, Illustrator, Audition and Premier are unfairly expensive. With that pricing they are literally just being asked to be pirated from. I take a comm tech class, and need at least one of those programs on a daily basis, and how do they assume that a high school student is going to pay for all that hm? Exactly.

Put it this way - do you consider Robin Hood a sinner or a brave man who took from the rich and gave to the starving poor?

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Things like.. Photoshop, Illustrator, Audition and Premier are unfairly expensive.

Oh, please. Just like Porsches are unfairly expensive.

NOTHING is 'unfairly expensive'. People price their products however they like and since it's their own product, it's perfectly 'fair'.

With that pricing they are literally just being asked to be pirated from.

Just like Porsche are asking for their cars to be stolen?

Neither Porsche nor the licensers of software are 'literally just being asked to be pirated from".

I take a comm tech class, and need at least one of those programs on a daily basis, and how do they assume that a high school student is going to pay for all that hm? Exactly.

That's your problem, not theirs. If I can't afford something I want, I don't steal it. You, apparently, do.

Put it this way - do you consider Robin Hood a sinner or a brave man who took from the rich and gave to the starving poor?

Completely irrelevant.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Well, if that person could just copy the car from someone else, so that the other person wouldn't lose it, and he or she really needed it, then I wouldn't see it as immoral too. But stealing is something so different that it can't be compared to this in any way.

No, stealing is something identical. This is theft. No two ways about it. It might be intellectual property, but it's still property.

All of these pathetic excuses - "but I really need it" - "it's so expensive!" - they are all just that. Excuses to justify stealing from someone else. It's pitiful and pathetic that anyone would attempt to justify software piracy, particuarly Christians.

 

[rebelEnigma]

How could one steal a car that is still there after one has "stolen" it?

 

[flicka]

Some software IS unfairly expensive. That is to say, it is the industry standard but not affordable to those who need to use it. Especially high school and college students. However, most students who end up working in the industry will buy their own fully supported and upgradeable copies once they are working. I don't know a single student who has paid for Photoshop, and when it's only needed occasionally, the price can't really be justified.

I really don't see using pirated software as being the same as physical theft. I don't see downloading music that way either. Technology has made it available to us so it's as easy as borrowing a cd from a neighbor. Industries need to create new business models to keep their profit margin up. Like itunes did. Yelling "thief" isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Some software IS unfairly expensive.

No, nothing is "unfairly expensive". People price their products the way they like. If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it. "It's too expensive" is not an excuse to steal it.

I really don't see using pirated software as being the same as physical theft. I don't see downloading music that way either. Technology has made it available to us so it's as easy as borrowing a cd from a neighbor. Industries need to create new business models to keep their profit margin up.

Yes, a lot of people don't see it as being the same as physical theft. It's not, because it's not physical theft - it is theft nonetheless.

Yelling "thief" isn't going to cut it anymore.

So the software thieves keep saying.

I've heard car thieves say that, too. "I was only borrowing it, not stealing it..."

If you take it without permission of the owner, that's theft. Doesn't matter if you plan to bring it back, or if they still have a product to sell others. You've stolen. Simple.

 

[trunks2k]

I've heard car thieves say that, too. "I was only borrowing it, not stealing it..."

If you take it without permission of the owner, that's theft. Doesn't matter if you plan to bring it back, or if they still have a product to sell others. You've stolen. Simple.

I don't think it's a valid comparison. A car costs money to replace. Copying software doesn't. If I were to use an illegal copy of windows, but if I had to pay for, I'd use Linux instead, Microsoft is not out any money. Stealing a car is not the same situation, the person the car was stolen from is out a car, which needs to be replaced. Again, not trying to justify copying software, but I don't think it's valid to compare it to stealing a tangible object.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

I don't think it's a valid comparison. A car costs money to replace. Copying software doesn't. If I were to use an illegal copy of windows, but if I had to pay for, I'd use Linux instead, Microsoft is not out any money. Stealing a car is not the same situation, the person the car was stolen from is out a car, which needs to be replaced. Again, not trying to justify copying software, but I don't think it's valid to compare it to stealing a tangible object.

And if you 'borrow' someone's car and return it later, that's fine too? What about if you move into someone's house while they're on vacation, but move out before they get back? That's fine?

All are forms of theft, just like software piracy. They're just not theft of a physical object. That doesn't make them not theft.

 

[trunks2k]

And if you 'borrow' someone's car and return it later, that's fine too? What about if you move into someone's house while they're on vacation, but move out before they get back? That's fine?

You have things like wear and tear on the car/house or objects and potential damage to the property, plus sentimental costs. It's just not the same thing. If someone were to take my car, but I'd be garunteed that it would instantly show up whenever I need it, and the person driving around with my car wouldn't cause additional wear and tear, and I'd receive it exactly as I left it, then it's like it was never taken. So why would I care? This is more like the case of average-joe user using a pirated copy of some software, if he has to pay for it, he won't use it, either way the software producer doesn't make or lose anything. As I said before, the closest thing you can argue is that the software producer has to come up with some protection for it.

It's an interesting argument actually. For software, there may be a net benefit for the producer when there's a certain amount of people using the software illegally, as in cases mentioned earlier (i.e. X percentage of users using it illegally lead to a larger number of people paying for it). The problem comes up when EVERYONE is using the software illegally, or more specifically, when people who would normally pay for it are using it for free. The trouble is finding the happy medium.

I'd be interested in seeing a study on something like that.

 

[flicka]

No, nothing is "unfairly expensive". People price their products the way they like. If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it. "It's too expensive" is not an excuse to steal it.

Yes it is. And I explained why. And it's a good enough excuse for me.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Yes it is. And I explained why.

No, it's not. Your 'explanation' was "I can't afford it, therefore it's unfair." You can produce no valid justification for calling the price someone sets on purchasing something they own 'unfair'.

And it's a good enough excuse for me.

Great. Criminals make excuses for their crimes all the time. And if you are using pirated software, that's what you are - a criminal. More precisely, a thief.

 

[flicka]

Great. Criminals make excuses for their crimes all the time. And if you are using pirated software, that's what you are - a criminal. More precisely, a thief.

No, I just borrowed a copy from my online friends.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

No, I just borrowed a copy from my online friends.

You stole it. You're a criminal and a thief (assuming you are talking about copyrighted software).