Pick up your bed and walk...

[visionary]

I have a question which I would appreciate help with please. In John 5:1-18 Yeshua had gone to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast. He goes to the Pool of Bethesda. There He sees multiple sick, lame and blind waiting for the waters to stir, in hopes of being healed. He approaches a man who has been ill for 38 years and asks him if he wishes to get better. The man spoke of how he had tried to get into the pool all these years. Yeshua told him to get up, pick up his bed and walk.

Yeshua telling the man to carry his bed, was He was teaching him that it was permissible to violate the commands of HaShem?

Numbers 15:32-36
New International Version (NIV)
The Sabbath-Breaker Put to Death

32 While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Jeremiah 17:21-22
New International Version (NIV)
21 This is what the LORD says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem. 22 Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your ancestors.

 

[JRSut1000]

A load of sticks is for building a fire - work.

 

[visionary]

carrying a bed is more work than a few sticks.

 

[pat34lee]

I have a question which I would appreciate help with please. In John 5:1-18 Yeshua had gone to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast. He goes to the Pool of Bethesda. There He sees multiple sick, lame and blind waiting for the waters to stir, in hopes of being healed. He approaches a man who has been ill for 38 years and asks him if he wishes to get better. The man spoke of how he had tried to get into the pool all these years. Yeshua told him to get up, pick up his bed and walk.

Yeshua telling the man to carry his bed, was He was teaching him that it was permissible to violate the commands of HaShem?

If you read that section of Jeremiah, the problem was that they were conducting business as usual on the Sabbath. Merchants brought goods in through the gates, and people brought items to trade from their houses. It wasn't about them just carrying something.

 

[visionary]

If you read that section of Jeremiah, the problem was that they were conducting business as usual on the Sabbath. Merchants brought goods in through the gates, and people brought items to trade from their houses. It wasn't about them just carrying something.

So you are saying.. it is the purpose behind carrying the load that is where it falls apart as far as obedience goes.

 

[yonah_mishael]

He could carry his bed on Shabbat. It wasn't a bed but a mat. It would be permissible. However, the problem would be crossing domains (reshuyot). If he went from a public demain into a private domain, there would be a problem from within rabbinic Judaism.

 

[Avodat]

He could carry his bed on Shabbat. It wasn't a bed but a mat. It would be permissible. However, the problem would be crossing domains (reshuyot). If he went from a public demain into a private domain, there would be a problem from within rabbinic Judaism.

That's interesting. Would it then follow that taking his mat to the pool in the first place, from private to public, he would be in trouble? Or would it be ok this way round because he was blind, but after he received his sight he had no excuse?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Not if he carried it on a day other than the Shabbat.

 

[yedida]

He could carry his bed on Shabbat. It wasn't a bed but a mat. It would be permissible. However, the problem would be crossing domains (reshuyot). If he went from a public demain into a private domain, there would be a problem from within rabbinic Judaism.

Even if it had been someone else who had taken the matt out to the pool and for it to remain his, he would have to bring it back in. The original taker was not there. Don't all laws have their "unusual circumstances" "extinuating cirumstances" clause?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Even if it had been someone else who had taken the matt out to the pool and for it to remain his, he would have to bring it back in. The original taker was not there. Don't all laws have their "unusual circumstances" "extinuating cirumstances" clause?

Perhaps there was an eruv?

 

[JRSut1000]

Like 'dont make a fire on the Sabbath'? This *could* mean that starting one's car is off-limits, but i dont take it to mean that at all!

 

[yonah_mishael]

Like 'dont make a fire on the Sabbath'? This *could* mean that starting one's car is off-limits, but i dont take it to mean that at all!

On what justification? Is there no fire in the combustion chambers? The bigger question would be what to make of electronic cars!!

 

[JRSut1000]

What Im saying is, I think people can easily make the Sabbath itself a burden by worrying about every little aspect of how the words 'dont start a fire' is carried out. The law is a blessing, not a burden. It's man who makes God's laws into burdens by dictating all the possible, potential limitations of 'dont do'.

 

[visionary]

If we are warned that we need to pray that our flight is not in the winter or the Sabbath.. it must mean that there are extenuating circumstances with every situation that the Lord allows for love and mercy to over rule the letter of the law.

 

[ChavaK]

What Im saying is, I think people can easily make the Sabbath itself a burden by worrying about every little aspect of how the words 'dont start a fire' is carried out. The law is a blessing, not a burden. It's man who makes God's laws into burdens by dictating all the possible, potential limitations of 'dont do'.

We don't find them to be a burden at all, it is the opposite. We delight
in fulfilling the commandments to our utmost ability.

 

[Avodat]

Like 'dont make a fire on the Sabbath'? This *could* mean that starting one's car is off-limits, but i dont take it to mean that at all!

Go to Jerusalem and see the expensive cars being stoned by Jewish youths because they are breaking the Sabbath! I've seen it myself.
Go to the Kotel and try taking photographs on Shabbat - you are likely to get into trouble for that, too. You are creating a picture on the Sabbath.

Shabbat was made for man, not vice versa. It was made for man's benefit to ensure total rest, not for man to abuse. Man was told to work at the land but G_d is not a hard task master and gave us Shabbat to ensure that we took a rest, had time for ourselves and families.

 

[JRSut1000]

Wow thats shocking! I dont see how taking pictures could be anti-Shabbat. Its part of enjoying His creation. It is my hobby and I take great pleasure from taking photos of the people I love and God's lovely creation. And driving? How else could I go to the park or trail to enjoy nature?

 

[Avodat]

Wow thats shocking! I dont see how taking pictures could be anti-Shabbat. Its part of enjoying His creation. It is my hobby and I take great pleasure from taking photos of the people I love and God's lovely creation. And driving? How else could I go to the park or trail to enjoy nature?

Yep, all good things, but not on the Sabbath in Jerusalem! There are 6 other days to do those things. The argument is against 'creating' - whether the spark to start the car or the image in the camera. As Yonah has pointed out, the issue of electric cars is the subject of some debate. Is it creating movement or is it 'work' to drive? We await the outcome with interest on this.

 

[JRSut1000]

I've heard there's been debate on SEX on the Sabbath. I mean, is it pleasure, work, and *drumroll* what about the whole creating aspect of it?

 

[Avodat]

Not witnessed any of that in Jerusalem on Shabbat. I'm sure Yonah would know the answer though, given his knowledge of the Law.

I guess it can be hard work before the pleasure and then...one thing leads to amother!