Physical soul?

[Forgivenman]

I was hoping someone could help me with something I've been struggling with.

There are people out there who are afflicted with the inability to feel compassion or who have a chemical inballence in there brains causing them to behave a certain way. If what we are is based on these physical limitations how can we be held responsible for our actions?

 

[OliverC]

Hello Forgivenman
My view is that it is out intentions that make us who we are. Before we act we have an intention to act or not. If those intentions are pure, good and with God in mind, then the judgement may be good. If those intentions are evil, soiled or selfish then the judgement may well be bad.

So those individuals deal with it in their mind/heart. If their pure intention results in an compassionate-less action, then they must still deal with the result of the action, but if in their heart their intention was good (but the outcome was bad) then there is a likely hood of the judgement being good.

Hope that helps shed some ideas on this topic.

 

[JesusRoxGirl22]

the ability to tell right from wrong...

 

[juvenissun]

I was hoping someone could help me with something I've been struggling with.

There are people out there who are afflicted with the inability to feel compassion or who have a chemical inballence in there brains causing them to behave a certain way. If what we are is based on these physical limitations how can we be held responsible for our actions?

To me, it is very simple.

Because these physical/chemical functions happened on YOU, so you are responsible. We can not punish the functions, so we punish the person who has these functions.

Your dog bit a person, YOU are responsible.

 

[Booko]

I was hoping someone could help me with something I've been struggling with.

There are people out there who are afflicted with the inability to feel compassion or who have a chemical inballence in there brains causing them to behave a certain way. If what we are is based on these physical limitations how can we be held responsible for our actions?

There are at least 3 ways in which people are held responsible for their actions: the law, by the judgement of other individuals, and by God. How one is held "responsible" depends on who is doing the "holding responsible" doesn't it?

My thoughts are such people should not be held legally responsible for their actions. However, society still has a duty to protect its members from harm. (I also think in this country our legal and medical systems are not at all well set up to deal with such situations.)

Also, where medicine has advanced to a point where help can be given these people, society has a duty to find a way to provide that help.

As for individuals holding people responsible, there you get into a whole theological realm of forgiveness and avoiding vengeance, not to mention who has the Job Title of Judger-in-Chief.

Speaking of Judger-in-Chief, God's judgement is something I don't really expect to understand, at least not in this life, simply because I cannot see into the hearts of others and see their entire situation the way God can. For those afflicted with neurological problems that make moral choices difficult, let us hope God understands their capacity to act morally is greatly reduced and His mercy exceeds His justice. The next life is far longer than this -- no doubt God has ways for making up for what one misses in this one due to infirmity.

Finally, I'm reminded of a psychologist studying the brain structure of psychopaths. He took the opportunity of access to an MRI to get brain scans of family members, including himself, which was useful to the work as a control group but hey, there's a bonus in that you might see any Alzheimer's early on.

The thing is he was looking through the scans of his family and noticed that one of those scans had the telltales signs of a psychopath.

Then he realized -- it was his own brain scan!

He did some further family research and found a history of violence and murder in some of the men of the family. And yet he didn't feel like being violent.

The difference? He was raised in a very loving family in a society that was not full of hatred and strife.

So perhaps God tests us all by giving us psychopaths. Are we going to step up to the challenge to raise kids in the sort of society that God would want, full of love, compassion and support? Or are we going to continue down the path of "I've got mine -- get your own" with no thought of the welfare of our neighbors?

Because it seems to me if we follow the latter, we produce our own built in violence, and as the saying goes, as you sow -- so shall you reap.

And here is where science and religion, if they can learn to play nice with each other, could work together to greatly improve the human condition.

Oh, incidentally, I believe the estimate for how many people have the brain structure of psychopaths is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-10%. Sorry I cannot recall the exact number.

One of the side benefits of having that brain structure is you are a highly energetic person driven to achieve. So there is some benefit to this "abnormality" -- if the achievements are aimed in a moral direction.

 

[Booko]

To me, it is very simple.

Because these physical/chemical functions happened on YOU, so you are responsible. We can not punish the functions, so we punish the person who has these functions.

Do you also blame people for getting sick even though their lifestyle choices were always good ones?

 

[Tomk80]

My thoughts are such people should not be held legally responsible for their actions. However, society still has a duty to protect its members from harm. (I also think in this country our legal and medical systems are not at all well set up to deal with such situations.)

From what I know of the subject, many sociopaths actually function well within society. Because while they do not feel empathy, they can learn the rules to which society adheres and know when they break them or not. So I think we can definitely hold these people legally responsible for their actions.

 

[Eudaimonist]

If what we are is based on these physical limitations how can we be held responsible for our actions?

Why would we be based on those physical limitations? Have pity for those who are.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Booko]

From what I know of the subject, many sociopaths actually function well within society. Because while they do not feel empathy, they can learn the rules to which society adheres and know when they break them or not. So I think we can definitely hold these people legally responsible for their actions.

If that's the case, then yes I agree.

There are much fuzzier cases involving impaired brain function where it seems less clear. Was the notorious case of the Texas shooter, where a tumor caused him to be unable to control violent urges, one where he should've been considered legally responsible for his actions?

This is why I said the law where I live seems antiquated and unable to deal with issues about people who act criminally but do so for physical reasons that are truly beyond their control. I don't see the point of putting someone in a regular jail in a case like that. I do see the point of keeping them somewhere where they are housed with some dignity in a way that keeps society from being harmed and where whatever can be done to alleviate the person's symptoms is available. In the U.S. we have no option like "guilty, but criminally insane" as an option to "really just guilty and you have no excuse." I think it hampers our ability to find true justice sometimes.

 

[Tomk80]

If that's the case, then yes I agree.

There are much fuzzier cases involving impaired brain function where it seems less clear. Was the notorious case of the Texas shooter, where a tumor caused him to be unable to control violent urges, one where he should've been considered legally responsible for his actions?

This is why I said the law where I live seems antiquated and unable to deal with issues about people who act criminally but do so for physical reasons that are truly beyond their control. I don't see the point of putting someone in a regular jail in a case like that. I do see the point of keeping them somewhere where they are housed with some dignity in a way that keeps society from being harmed and where whatever can be done to alleviate the person's symptoms is available. In the U.S. we have no option like "guilty, but criminally insane" as an option to "really just guilty and you have no excuse." I think it hampers our ability to find true justice sometimes.

I always liked the ending of the House Md episode acceptance on this:

Foreman: "Looks like they got the pheo out successfully. So. what now?"
House: "Clarence goes back to death row."
Foreman: "Just like that?"
House: "He's cured."
Foreman: "That tumor caused random shots of adrenaline, which obviously led to the rage attacks that made him become a murderer in the first place."
House: "By God, you're right! Let's call the surgeons. We got to save that tumor; put it on the witness stand."
Foreman: "We could testify at Clarence's appeal."
House: "You smell that? I think that is the stink of hypocrisy. You wouldn't even consider the notion that Clarence's social upbringing was responsible for what he became, but now you're sprinting to the witness stand to blame everything on a little tumor."
Foreman: "A person's upbringing and their biology are completely different."
House: "Yeah. Because you only overcame one of them. Let's just give Clarence a free pass, huh? Course, you're probably going to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] off all those other pheo sufferers who managed to control their rage attacks and become lawyers, race car drivers, or even doctors. Removing that tumor puts a stop to those random shots adrenaline, but it doesn't absolve him."
Foreman: "You want him to be executed?"
House: "That's not what I'm saying."
Foreman: "Got an opinion?"
House: Everyone's got an opinion.
Foreman: "I, um, I think I'm gonna testify at Clarence's appeal."
House: "You'll do what you think is right. [pause] On your own time."

 

[Gottservant]

If what we are is based on these physical limitations how can we be held responsible for our actions?

Simple:

at the heart of your organism is a little gap, where the soul operates.

this gap gives you freedom, since you can either open or close it to stop your soul (the thing which you think is most important - sic!) from operating

this is the simple function of your organism, to either believe or not believe

if you have done something evil, it can only be because you have allowed your soul to influence the rest of your body, by manipulating this gap

simple

your conscience records the effect of your control of this gap, by its flow on effect on the rest of your body, in the absence of knowledge of this gap or with it

 

[GrowingSmaller]

onsofar as a persons traits are acquired like being blue eyed rather than achieved like developing logic skills they cannot rightly be held causally responsible for them. although they may be practically responsible for their oversight the degree to which they can be altered voluntarily is the only way one should calculate when taking personal account. howrver practically speaking the moral ego cannot be disenmeshed from all that involuntary baggage so has to be dealt with simultaneously. so the sociopath might go to jail even if he had little choice or control over the expression of his individual nature. i thibnk Godcwill be more able to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Jamin4422]

If what we are is based on these physical limitations how can we be held responsible for our actions?

If people are insane they are not held responsible. Then the question is are they a danger to themselves or others. That is why people can be sentenced to spend their whole life in jail for a crime they commit as a minor. Because they are judged to be a threat to society. So society has a right to be protected from them. Children have the right to be protected from known sex offenders if they can control themselves or not.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

but is thatt life in jail a tue justice of a pragmatic step? i mean it can be pretty grim and cause moral Decline i have heard.

 

[Jro]

I left my physical soul on a park bench just outside of Clifton, NJ. If you find it please bring it back to me. Cash reward.

 

[juvenissun]

Do you also blame people for getting sick even though their lifestyle choices were always good ones?

He is sick, then he is sick. There is no one else to blame.

 

[Jamin4422]

. Cash reward.

How much is your soul worth? It might have been better to leave your ego behind.

 

[Jamin4422]

Do you also blame people for getting sick even though their lifestyle choices were always good ones?

9 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

The important thing to remember is that God has it all under control and He will cause good to come out of it. We are told that all things work out for the best for them that love God and are called according to His purpose. So as long was we are following God then He will work it all together for our good. So for the believer life just keeps getting better and better. No matter how much you think live is so good it could not get any better. For those who are not walking with God then life goes from bad to worse for them.

I remember reading in the Bible that we are to give thanks in all things. I was a little upset and I wondered how we can give things for all the garbage we got to go though. With God the end justifies the means and it is worth what we have to go though to get where we are going.

 

[Jro]

How much is your soul worth? It might have been better to leave your ego behind.

Nah man, my soul is tarnished, but my ego is GIGANTIC. That thing is like a shining, mesmerizing, lost city of Zinj complete with albino vicious gorillas. I've got that thing out on loan to the Smithsonian. As for the soul, maybe three weeks worth of ramen noodles? Four?

 

[Jamin4422]

As for the soul, maybe three weeks worth of ramen noodles? Four?

That's the problem, you need to get some good soul food. I use to eat a lot of Ramen noodles in China, but they put good stuff in there. Whatever you want. I would usually get a little egg, some meat and spinach for something green. But they had lots of different stuff to choose from. There is suppose to be a lot of good soul food down south. Maybe we can get your aunti to cook you up some.