Physical Divinity of Christ

[steve_bakr]

That is the creed. Is it in the Bible? Was Jesus physicaly divine and spiritualy human?

I think that, from the testimony of John Chapter 1, the creed is inferred here. "The Word was God" and "The Word was among us."

What is your view?

Peace

 

[PaladinValer]

Is that "mystery" on the Bible?

"On"? I think you mean "in"?

Yes, it is. Jesus' conception is the moment of the Incarnation.

That is the creed. Is it in the Bible? Was Jesus physicaly divine and spiritualy human?

If a doctrine disagrees with the Creed, it isn't Christian. In addition, CF uses the Nicene Creed as its Statement of Faith in accordance with the Early Church. Promoting doctrines or ideas that are contrary to the Creed isn't allowed in the Christian-only section.

Furthermore, yes: Jesus is a full, complete Person of two natures and two wills. That is the only orthodox Christian position.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

That is the creed. Is it in the Bible? Was Jesus physicaly divine and spiritualy human?

Every petition of the Nicene Creed is taken from Scipture; see the Second Article quoted below and please note the portions which I have bolded:

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

 

[PaladinValer]

Monophysitism is denied by the Creed, which shows two natures and two wills: God and human. To say it doesn't means you didn't actually read the plain text.

Even the Oriental Orthodox accept that Jesus is God and human in essentially the same way the Chalcedonian Definition defines it, though they disagree with the language. Miaphysitism is within bounds of the Nicene Creed and therefore, is within orthodoxy. Monophysitism however implies Jesus a failed Savior and is directly contrary to the Creed, which Mark just posted above and bolded the most important part spelling out its heresy.

Monophysitism is considered unorthodox here on CF.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Ok,

I'm closing this thread and doing a cleanup; here's why.

When we become members here at Christian Forums we agree to abide with the rules. The rules clearly state that the Nicene Creed is THE statement of faith of Christian forums, and only those who agree with this SoF may post in Forums designated Christian Only.

If your post is gone or edited it was in violation of this rule or was posted in reply to and/or quoted another post which was in violation.

Posting against the Nicene Creed and Nicene Christians IS a violation of the Christian Only rule, and inferring that those who hold the Christian Faith Confessed in this Creed are heterodox or heretical is also a violation of the flaming rule.

Further violations of these rules will result in posts being reported and actioned by staff and could indeed result in access to Christian Forums being restricted or revoked.

Mark
Staff Supervisor.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Ok,

I'm closing this thread and doing a cleanup; here's why.

When we become members here at Christian Forums we agree to abide with the rules. The rules clearly state that the Nicene Creed is THE statement of faith of Christian forums, and only those who agree with this SoF may post in Forums designated Christian Only.

If your post is gone or edited it was in violation of this rule or was posted in reply to and/or quoted another post which was in violation.

Posting against the Nicene Creed and Nicene Christians IS a violation of the Christian Only rule, and inferring that those who hold the Christian Faith Confessed in this Creed are heterodox or heretical is also a violation of the flaming rule.

Further violations of these rules will result in posts being reported and actioned by staff and could indeed result in access to Christian Forums being restricted or revoked.

Mark
Staff Supervisor.

OK, that's done.

Let's stick to the rules and the topic.

Reopening....

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I'll use an analogy:

If you have a nail and then wrap a current-carrying wire around the nail (some would call that a "coil"), what happens? The nail becomes a magnet. For the sake of argument, we'll say that magnetism is one "thing", and the nail is one "thing". Before the nail has the coil around it, it is a nail. After the nail has the coil around it, it is still a nail. Before the coil was over the nail, the magnetism was magnetism. After the coil was around the nail, the magnetism was magnetism. Neither the nail nor the magnetism changed. But once you put the coil over the nail, the entire nail became magnetic. If you were to be able to put a piece of metal to the nail at any point on the nail, the piece of metal would stick to the nail. On all points of the nail, it is both fully nail and fully magnetism. They are not combined into one whole new substance, yet it is impossible to separate the two. You couldn't get a microscope and differentiate between magnetism particles and nail particles. It is one magnetic nail.

It is similar with Christ. The Word became man. Man is not a soul trapped in a body. Man is soul AND body (some would say body, soul and spirit, but that's a different debate). God didn't become a human soul. God became man. God became ALL that man is. In fact, John uses the verbiage, "and the Word became flesh". He didn't just take on a soul; He took on flesh. The Word became united to all that we, as "man", are. The entire person of Jesus Christ was entirely God-man. It's not that God "fills" the body of Jesus from the inside. Rather, Divinity and humanity are fully united in One Person.

Make any sense?

Yes. And it's quite a descriptive analogy. But... it still presumes the Logos is an eternally-distinct separate God-"person" to begin with, which the Logos most certainly is not.

There is no hypostatic union; but if there were, this would be better than all the egg, rope, and H2O analogies that don't really depict Trinity or the hypostatic union.


For the record... I wholly affirm the Nicene Creed.

 

[dbcsf]

It is a curiosity to me that in spirit Jesus was FULLY man and FULLY God. However, in his physical body, Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine. Is this symbolic of anything? Is there any greater meaning?

Go Christian brothers! Reveal all to me that is hidden!

I am not sure if this helps or not. I do not believe the question is answered adequately by the scriptures. What I mean to say is, it is not black and white in the scriptures. This is a question of theology, and the scriptures need to be interpreted to develop a position.

I have read St. Augustine. Augustine believed the the flesh was generally sinful and imperfect, he was a Platonist after all.

Augustine definitely also believed Jesus to be a special case, a miracle. He definitely believed Jesus was wholly divine in the flesh. This had obvious significance for the taking of communion for his church at that time in history.

In summary, Augustine would disagree with your conclusion that, "...Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine".

I am not a hotshot theologian, so I cannot comment further. Hope this helps.

 

[Mark_Sam]

Statement #1:

Yes. And it's quite a descriptive analogy. But... it still presumes the Logos is an eternally-distinct separate God-"person" to begin with, which the Logos most certainly is not.

There is no hypostatic union; but if there were, this would be better than all the egg, rope, and H2O analogies that don't really depict Trinity or the hypostatic union.

Statement #2:

For the record... I wholly affirm the Nicene Creed.

Can you please explain how statement #1 and #2 don't contradict each other?

 

[Zeleste]

It is a curiosity to me that in spirit Jesus was FULLY man and FULLY God. However, in his physical body, Jesus was wholly man and in no way divine. Is this symbolic of anything? Is there any greater meaning?

Go Christian brothers! Reveal all to me that is hidden!

Jesus was FULLY man and God. All Jesus was fully man and God.