Phubbing

[ValleyGal]

BFine posted this article on the advice forum:
http://fusion.net/story/208198/phubbing-is-ruining-american-relationships/

I thought it might be worth it to post this on the marriage forum for discussion (and not necessarily advice).

One thing that stood out for me is this:
"The one thing that can mitigate the effects of phubbing is what the authors refer to as attachment anxiety levels: If you’re pretty secure about your status in the relationship, phubbing becomes less of an issue. If you’re not, phubbing is going to wreck you."

I can't say I buy into this. Dr. Gottman (Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work) suggests one principle called "turning toward." This is when one spouse makes a bid (verbal or non-verbal request) for connection. If the one receiving the bid responds by paying focused attention, this increases trust, shows care, builds intimacy, etc. If they respond with an acknowledgement (even a brief grunt), it's not exactly good for the marriage, but it will not likely destroy it, and if the bid is ignored, it will inevitably damage the marriage. Since there is research to support Gottman's assertions, I can't say that phubbing is affected a whole lot by attachment style so much it is by the person's response to the bid. Even then, I have a hard time with the idea that a mere acknowledgement is not going to eventually destroy the marriage. Even those who are secure in the marriage will eventually be affected by phubbing - being ignored in favor of a phone or computer.

Thoughts>

 

[Murby]

I don't understand this..
This is the first time I've heard the term and had to look it up... It is a said state of affairs that this is even an issue..

The first time this ever happened to me would be met with a comment.. the second time, another comment..

There probably wouldn't be a third time.. that means the "phubber" is an inconsiderate jerk.. have a nice life and good luck.. you're going to need it.

 

[ValleyGal]

The article explains what phubbing is.

What if your spouse started phubbing> Is this a divorceable offense> How would phubbing affect your marriage>

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I'll post this in both sections but I DISLIKE technology when it comes to this. Dinner tables now have families all on their phones instead of talking. Assuming they are even in the same room at this point to eat. I dislike phones in church. I dislike phones in relationships. They cause nothing but issues. In some cases I understand. My wifes family and friends are 2,000 miles away, so I don't mind her having her phone with her. And she has other issues that she needs it for (medical, immigration, family planning, helping other immigrants...etc). In general if your spouse is on their phone to much, tell them "I may legally change my name to Facebook so you notice me more!". But most couples I see, even couples in their 50s are on phones everywhere. Driving, theater, eating out, bathroom...etc.

Lets use church for an example. If you are using your phone DURING service then to me thats about as annoying as when people have loud conversation during service. Turn it off or just stay home because obviously whatever your doing is far more interesting then worshiping God/listening to the message. Although if you have your bible on your phone, obviously that acceptable. Me? I love technology. Its done alot for us. But its also made us sloths who depend on it to the point of I've heard of people killing themselves because their phone was taken away or broke. Or they had no internet access for a few days. Really?!?

When NASA talks about a future sun burst could wipe out technology on earth (EMP related), I sometimes wish it would happen. But I realize that would mean people who are literally depending on technology to live (artificial heart, pace makers, machine keeping you breathing in ER...etc) would fry out. So I don't really wish that. Good thing about not having many friends growing up is you get used to not needing things like phones. Or twitter and so on. And you also know how to enjoy yourself if looked in a room with nothing to do in it. Where as a phone user trapped in a room with no phone (but lets we gave them books, stones, paper and a pen), they would panic because they would be bored (and miss their phone).

I know issues like money cause divorce, but everything adds to going that route. And phones being paid more attention is one of them. Would I divorce over it? No. I'd get help somehow. Worse comes to worse smash the phones, unplug the tv and so on.

 

[Murby]

What if your spouse started phubbing> Is this a divorceable offense> How would phubbing affect your marriage>

I would never have married someone who is so self absorbed and inconsiderate. Any wife who starts phubbing was most certainly showing the warning signs of inconsiderate behavior long before marriage.

When people do things of a repeating nature like phubbing, they're usually not guilty of just one inconsiderate behavior like that.. There's usually a pattern of other behaviors that serve as warning signs.

 

[Murby]

When NASA talks about a future sun burst could wipe out technology on earth (EMP related), I sometimes wish it would happen. But I realize that would mean people who are literally depending on technology to live (artificial heart, pace makers, machine keeping you breathing in ER...etc) would fry out. So I don't really wish that.

When that happens, and it will.. you better have at least 2 years of food stored and several thousands of rounds of ammo to defend it. You won't like what happens when the city folks realize there's no way for them to grow anything.

 

[ValleyGal]

I would never have married someone who is so self absorbed and inconsiderate. Any wife who starts phubbing was most certainly showing the warning signs of inconsiderate behavior long before marriage.

When people do things of a repeating nature like phubbing, they're usually not guilty of just one inconsiderate behavior like that.. There's usually a pattern of other behaviors that serve as warning signs.

Sometimes, I believe, a lot can happen in a marriage and that can mean people start behaving in ways they didn't during dating. Couples who start out terrific can end up 10, 20, or 30 years later withdrawing from the other, turning away from their spouse (or simply taking them for granted), leading to stonewalling, etc. This can't necessarily be predicted prior to marriage. Stuff happens that leads to these things.

It does not even have to be about stonewalling - maybe it's about one being a workaholic, ignoring their spouse in favor of work (more and more employees are now available 24-7 through text and email). Or perhaps something on the internet is more intriguing than the spouse, once the honeymoon wears off.

No one gets married with the idea that they will divorce, yet nearly half have been snubbed by a spouse and almost 23% state it causes issues in the marriage. I'd be interested to find out how many of those couples found their spouses snubbing during dating. Probably not many, unless it was mutual.

 

[Murby]

Please clear one thing up for me because I'm wondering if I have the right idea on this.
Phubbing is when someone simply pays attention to their phone instead of the mutual activity two people are engaged in.. Is that right??

Like two people at a restaurant having dinner and one keeps texting on their phone when the other is trying to have a conversation? Or in the same setting, someone is already texting on their phone and when you try to get their attention, they ignore you?

Is that what phubbing is? In short, I understand phubbing to be someone paying attention to their phone when they should be paying attention to the person they're with....

Of course, I can imagine other scenarios where a spouse is sitting at a kitchen table eating breakfast and texting.. then the other spouse walks in and says something but barely gets a response.

Clear this up for me please.

 

[ValleyGal]

According to the article, "...
when you’re in a relationship, the temptation to seek emotional relief from isolation through your phone should be reduced But it’s 2015, and it’s not happening....respondents said their partners snubbed them by taking to their phones, or 'phubbed' them."

I imagine this can be in any context - over breakfast, dinner at a restaurant, on a walk at the beach, or any other context where you should respond positively to a bid for connection from your spouse (or whoever you're with).

 

[Murby]

I imagine this can be in any context - over breakfast, dinner at a restaurant, on a walk at the beach, or any other context where you should respond positively to a bid for connection from your spouse (or whoever you're with).

Yup.. that's what I thought..

So with that in mind,

Sometimes, I believe, a lot can happen in a marriage and that can mean people start behaving in ways they didn't during dating. Couples who start out terrific can end up 10, 20, or 30 years later withdrawing from the other, turning away from their spouse (or simply taking them for granted), leading to stonewalling, etc. This can't necessarily be predicted prior to marriage. Stuff happens that leads to these things.

While what you say is true, I still have to wonder if there are signs before marriage.

Since this type of behavior is relatively new at only ten years or so.. it might be one of those things where only time will tell.
I surely wouldn't put up with repeated treatment like that.

 

[ValleyGal]

I don't believe so. At least not always. While for some, there are likely missed signs that a partner will eventually lose interest, there are likely a lot who start out fully engaged with their spouse. There is no way to know everything about a spouse prior to marriage. Life happens, and things get in the way....and it takes work to stay fully engaged with your spouse rather than with all those other things that are vying for our attention. Some are just not willing to do the work and think the relationship should be just as easy at 7, 14, 21 years as it is during dating and the honeymoon period.

Murby, what would you do if your spouse started phubbing you. You can't change your spouse. How would you handle the situation, and how long would you tolerate it for. What would you do to regain your spouse's engagement>

 

[Murby]

Murby, what would you do if your spouse started phubbing you. You can't change your spouse. How would you handle the situation, and how long would you tolerate it for. What would you do to regain your spouse's engagement>

My first response would be to communicate.. That usually fixes pretty much every problem we've run into.

If that didn't work, I have plenty of acreage to bury her body.

 

[ValleyGal]

Sure, communication is great! But the point is that in phubbing, if you try to communicate, your spouse will be non-responsive. You are fortunate if you both still communicate. Many couples are not so fortunate. No burial grounds in your backyard!

 

[Murby]

You are fortunate if you both still communicate

Fortunate implies luck.. There's no luck involved.. none at all.

My wife and I tell each other everything.. even if we know the other won't be happy hearing it or if its embarrassing for the one telling it. The way we look at it, Love and Honesty are so close together on the scale of personal relationships that they are almost indistinguishable from each other. If you can't be 100% honest with your spouse, then what you have is closer to (mutual?) tolerance than it is to love.

 

[mkgal1]

"The one thing that can mitigate the effects of phubbing is what the authors refer to as attachment anxiety levels: If you’re pretty secure about your status in the relationship, phubbing becomes less of an issue. If you’re not, phubbing is going to wreck you."

I can't say that phubbing is affected a whole lot by attachment style so much it is by the person's response to the bid. Even then, I have a hard time with the idea that a mere acknowledgement is not going to eventually destroy the marriage. Even those who are secure in the marriage will eventually be affected by phubbing - being ignored in favor of a phone or computer.

I'd imagine that a person that's not bothered by their spouse's "phubbing" wouldn't attempt to get their spouse's attention when they're expecting a lack of response.....do you know what I mean (unless it's something really urgent)? They'd recognize the person is "offline" and disconnected already.

I take that quote to mean that two people that basically have independent personalities (and are secure in their relationship) aren't as bothered. I don't take it to mean that being shut out and neglected would be acceptable. We aren't secure in relationships where we're shut out and disrespected. IOW.....the context of that quote seems to be within a relationship where there are no blaring issues.

While "phubbing" may be relatively new----people getting absorbed into other activities without their spouse isn't. Plenty of people get absorbed by solo activities like reading books, exercising, and watching television (or working on hobbies out in the garage or other rooms by themselves). I think it's just a matter of the couple coming to a mutual agreement about how much independence is good....and where it crosses the line into neglect of the other.

 

[mkgal1]

I happened to remember something from a long time ago. In the community I used to work (many years ago) there was a couple that I saw almost every morning that would sit quietly--each reading their newspapers and drinking coffee. They barely said a word to each other as they read (if at all)--and their newspapers were blocking their ability to see the other's face.....but as soon as they finished their coffee (which always seemed to be in sync with one another).....they'd close up their newspapers and rise and walk off holding hands. I'd found out they'd been married for over 40 years. I was impressed by the sort of rhythm they'd acquired over the years.

 

[Murby]

I'd imagine that a person that's not bothered by their spouse's "phubbing" wouldn't attempt to get their spouse's attention when they're expecting a lack of response.....do you know what I mean (unless it's something really urgent)? They'd recognize the person is "offline" and disconnected already.

I take that quote to mean that two people that basically have independent personalities (and are secure in their relationship) aren't as bothered. I don't take it to mean that being shut out and neglected would be acceptable. We aren't secure in relationships where we're shut out and disrespected. IOW.....the context of that quote seems to be within a relationship where there are no blaring issues.

While "phubbing" may be relatively new----people getting absorbed into other activities without their spouses isn't. Plenty of people get absorbed by solo activities like reading books, exercising, and watching television (or working on hobbies out in the garage or other rooms by themselves). I think it's just a matter of the couple coming to a mutual agreement about how much independence is good....and where it crosses the line into neglect of the other.

That's good insight. (and I hit the like button for you!)
My wife knows not to bother me when I'm in the middle of a long line of program code or working out a model construct like a physics problem.. She knows I won't respond to anything less than her screaming FIRE!!! or something of that nature.

So ya.. good insight....

 

[mkgal1]

My wife knows not to bother me when I'm in the middle of a long line of program code or working out a model construct like a physics problem.. She knows I won't respond to anything less than her screaming FIRE!!! or something of that nature.

Exactly. It's knowing each other's body language and respecting a person's "space". But---like I posted earlier---that's a different scenario than one where a spouse is being completely shut out and neglected. It's the old comparison of "quality time" compared to "quantity time". It's not the time.....but what we do with it that matters.

 

[ValleyGal]

I think the whole term "phubbing" implies that a bid for connection is made, and the partner on the phone snubs the other in favor of the phone. Of course there are going to be times when couples are engaged in their own things, but in the context of a date, or a bid for connection or a family outing, etc, it is causing a problem, when nearly 23% say it "causes issues" in the relationship.

BFine posted in her thread about two people who were obviously on a first date, and the guy spent all his time on his phone. She got fed up and said she was going to the washroom and never returned. The idea is that when someone is expected to be engaged in face to face time, and instead spends all that time on the phone, that is phubbing - not just when two people are having a period of legitimate disconnection.

 

[mkgal1]

The linked article is pretty vague and didn't really describe--specifically---what a "phubbing" scenario would actually look like. The embedded linked article (http://www.3aw.com.au/radio/the-antiphubber-movement-20120620-20n7o ) gave a bit more information:

"I went to a media awards dinner and there was a young girl who wanted a career in the media and she was sitting with some reasonable heavyweight media people. Amazing, she spent the entire time texting and didn't say a single word to anyone."

So next time you're with a mate and he or she is too glued to his IPhone to mutter anything other than one word answers, call out a phubber."

There's also the picture of what the author calls a "group phone snubbing scenario"---where each person in the group is paying attention to their phones and not each other (IOW....no one is trying to get the attention of the others as they are all into their phones at the moment).

It still seems like a term for people paying more attention to their phone rather than the people in person around them (leaving open whether or not the other person cares). The stats they gave were that out of the 46.3% of respondents that answered that they had been "phubbed"--22.6% said it caused issues in the relationship. I'd say that's comparable to the story I mentioned earlier about the couple and their newspapers. I think it's dependent upon the couple and each person's expectations. The couple you mentioned that were on a first date? Clearly they had differing expectations.