Philosophy 201

[Bluelion]

So I am taking a Philosophy class, which is very hard but the teacher is a Christian and the books are all written from a Christian perspective. We have 5 text books for the class. We just finished with one of the text books and in it the author, my teacher, made the statement about Laws of Philosophy being absolute. One such law is the Law of contradiction. Two thinks can not be in opposites. The author made the statement God can not exist and not exist at the same time, He then said God spoke of a camel passing through the eye of a needle and said all things are possible with God but He did not mean that. God could not pass a camel through the eye of a needle. He then goes on to say a person can not be in a room and outside the room at the same time, and this is the problem with Christian philosophers. God can be in two places at once. God can pass a camel through the eye of a needle, how I do not know but He could. If God chose He could exist and not at the same time. God is an all powerful God. That means there is no end to His power. To suggest there is limits on God's power, is to take away the all powerful part. So at best this teacher who says how much he respects the Bible has very limited faith in God, why? Because he like scientist rely on his own knowledge and understanding. This is not what God teaches. God teaches have faith in me as a child. How does a child look at their father? Like He is superman, he is the strongest smartest most successful man alive. No imagine if had that kind of faith with God. Why we could move mountains as God said. There is more wisdom in a child then most men walking the earth today.

My son was talking about Jesus the other day. he said Jesus is the strongest person alive. I said yes. He said there is nothing he can not do, wow. He can do anything, wow. He knows everything, wow. I said yes son. He said and He loves me. I said yes he does.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Out of curiosity, what philosophers have you been discussing in your class? Have you studied Hegel? He wrote insightful criticism of the LNC.

 

[thehehe]

I remember Sartre's saying that God couldn't exist because of the existence of the Humanity. My class mostly agrees with him, I just don't. My philosophy teacher is also a Christian, I'm very lucky.

Concerning the existence of God, I like a lot Descartes' point of view. I never thought about it before I red it and it was brillant.

 

[Tree of Life]

So I am taking a Philosophy class, which is very hard but the teacher is a Christian and the books are all written from a Christian perspective. We have 5 text books for the class. We just finished with one of the text books and in it the author, my teacher, made the statement about Laws of Philosophy being absolute. One such law is the Law of contradiction. Two thinks can not be in opposites. The author made the statement God can not exist and not exist at the same time, He then said God spoke of a camel passing through the eye of a needle and said all things are possible with God but He did not mean that. God could not pass a camel through the eye of a needle. He then goes on to say a person can not be in a room and outside the room at the same time, and this is the problem with Christian philosophers. God can be in two places at once. God can pass a camel through the eye of a needle, how I do not know but He could. If God chose He could exist and not at the same time. God is an all powerful God. That means there is no end to His power. To suggest there is limits on God's power, is to take away the all powerful part. So at best this teacher who says how much he respects the Bible has very limited faith in God, why? Because he like scientist rely on his own knowledge and understanding. This is not what God teaches. God teaches have faith in me as a child. How does a child look at their father? Like He is superman, he is the strongest smartest most successful man alive. No imagine if had that kind of faith with God. Why we could move mountains as God said. There is more wisdom in a child then most men walking the earth today.

My son was talking about Jesus the other day. he said Jesus is the strongest person alive. I said yes. He said there is nothing he can not do, wow. He can do anything, wow. He knows everything, wow. I said yes son. He said and He loves me. I said yes he does.

There are definitely things that God cannot do.

God cannot lie. He cannot violate his own character. God cannot cease to exist. He also cannot violate logic, which seems to be what your professor was getting at. But the idea that God cannot violate logic is not a statement about the limits of his abilities. It's a statement about the nature of language. For instance, God cannot create a "square circle". A square circle is a violation of logic. There cannot be such a thing. But this isn't a limitation to God's power. It's just saying that the idea of a "square circle" makes about as much sense as the idea of a "tupplemedlon dimterijer". Can God create a "tupplemedlon dimterijer"? As soon as you give me a coherent definition of such a thing I'll tell you whether or not he can make it.

 

[Bluelion]

There are definitely things that God cannot do.

God cannot lie. He cannot violate his own character. God cannot cease to exist. He also cannot violate logic, which seems to be what your professor was getting at. But the idea that God cannot violate logic is not a statement about the limits of his abilities. It's a statement about the nature of language. For instance, God cannot create a "square circle". A square circle is a violation of logic. There cannot be such a thing. But this isn't a limitation to God's power. It's just saying that the idea of a "square circle" makes about as much sense as the idea of a "tupplemedlon dimterijer". Can God create a "tupplemedlon dimterijer"? As soon as you give me a coherent definition of such a thing I'll tell you whether or not he can make it.

Lying is a sin, say God can not sin is the same as me saying I could not ever eat food off the ground, It's not that i don't have the capabilities, it i could never bring my self to do. Also something one of my teacher said. Now i have been called all kinds of name for saying such a thing, but if God could not sin then Jesus never faced temptation so the work on the cross is meaningless. I like how man puts limits on God. Why could God not create a square circle? Just because you do not see how it is possible in a 3d world does not mean he could not do it in 4 or 5 d world or any number of things. The disciples did not see how it was possible for a rich man to enter heaven, but God saw how it was possible, and that is what the passage is all about, all things are possible with God.

 

[Tree of Life]

Lying is a sin, say God can not sin is the same as me saying I could not ever eat food off the ground, It's not that i don't have the capabilities, it i could never bring my self to do. Also something one of my teacher said. Now i have been called all kinds of name for saying such a thing, but if God could not sin then Jesus never faced temptation so the work on the cross is meaningless. I like how man puts limits on God. Why could God not create a square circle? Just because you do not see how it is possible in a 3d world does not mean he could not do it in 4 or 5 d world or any number of things. The disciples did not see how it was possible for a rich man to enter heaven, but God saw how it was possible, and that is what the passage is all about, all things are possible with God.

It's logically possible for a rich man to enter heaven - just incredibly difficult. In fact, so difficult that it's impossible according to human strength. Like it's logically possible to lasso the moon and bring it closer to the earth. However, a square circle goes beyond difficult. It's logically incoherent. What is a square circle?

 

[Bluelion]

It's logically possible for a rich man to enter heaven - just incredibly difficult. In fact, so difficult that it's impossible according to human strength. Like it's logically possible to lasso the moon and bring it closer to the earth. However, a square circle goes beyond difficult. It's logically incoherent. What is a square circle?

And you know what is possible in other dimensions? seems God is all knowing and humans are not. Fact is it is a contradiction to say God is all powerful and then say things are beyond God's power. That is logically impossible.

 

[Tree of Life]

And you know what is possible in other dimensions? seems God is all knowing and humans are not. Fact is it is a contradiction to say God is all powerful and then say things are beyond God's power. That is logically impossible.

Well according to you God is not bound by logic. So God is both all powerful and not all powerful.

 

[Bluelion]

Well according to you God is not bound by logic. So God is both all powerful and not all powerful.

No what I said is God can do anything nothing is out of his power, I did not say God is a contradiction you said that.

 

[keith99]

It's logically possible for a rich man to enter heaven - just incredibly difficult. In fact, so difficult that it's impossible according to human strength. Like it's logically possible to lasso the moon and bring it closer to the earth. However, a square circle goes beyond difficult. It's logically incoherent. What is a square circle?

Squaring a circle is a mathematical problem, it is nothing more than constructing a square with exactly the same area as a given circle using only a straightedge and a compass. It has been proved to be impossible.

As to a rich man entering Heaven I think it is worth pointing out that Scripture does not in fact indicate it is any more difficult for a rich man than a poor man. Check for yourself as to what the disciples said next!

 

[Bluelion]

Squaring a circle is a mathematical problem, it is nothing more than constructing a square with exactly the same area as a given circle using only a straightedge and a compass. It has been proved to be impossible.

As to a rich man entering Heaven I think it is worth pointing out that Scripture does not in fact indicate it is any more difficult for a rich man than a poor man. Check for yourself as to what the disciples said next!

funny never heard Jesus say blessed are the rich for they shall inherit the earth. check yourself the Bible is full of stories a suffering leading to redemtion but not one is about a life of easy that doesn't end in hell.

 

[Blue Wren]

funny never heard Jesus say blessed are the rich for they shall inherit the earth. check yourself the Bible is full of stories a suffering leading to redemtion but not one is about a life of easy that doesn't end in hell.

There are rich people, who are also meek, and Godly.

 

[Bluelion]

There are rich people, who are also meek, and Godly.

Look Jesus said it take it up with Him. It's easier for a camel to pass through an eye of needle than a rich man to enter heaven.

 

[Near]

I think we all want to say God is all-powerful. That's because he is. For example, he doesn't need to be able to make himself cease to exist to prove that. God cannot make himself cease to exist.

It's not logically possible. If you say, "yes he can", you're basically affirming something which is completely logically impossible. If you admit that the logically impossible is possible, you may as well affirm that it's logically possible for God to make immoral things like theft, adultery, and drug abuse good things. That's not logically possible, since it's God's nature which dictates what's good. God cannot go against his divine nature. If you say he lacks a divine nature, we have ourselves facing euthyphro's dilemma. Either morals are arbitrary, or moral standards are above God. We must affirm God's nature is good.

 

[Blue Wren]

Look Jesus said it take it up with Him. It's easier for a camel to pass through an eye of needle than a rich man to enter heaven.

I don't need to "take it up with Him", as the problem is not with Jesus, but your misinterpretation of what He meant by that.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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