Peters Supremacy

[WebersHome]

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If we allow that Peter is the rock upon which the Roman Catholic Church is built, and also allow that within the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy the apostle Peter is supreme in matters related to faith and practice; then we must also allow that Catholics will be thoroughly judged for their every failure to know, and to comply, with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

Failure to comply with Peter's instructions is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's. It's a domino effect all the way to the top.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

It matters little whether or not the apostle Peter is actually the rock that Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18. That debate is a red herring and a waste of perfectly good forum bytes.

What matters most to Catholics is whether they themselves sincerely believe Peter is that rock because then they are obligated to submit to his authority and comply with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

It's a terrible tragedy indeed for those Catholics who all their lifetimes defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell because they neglected to listen to him.

● Matt 16:19 . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
_

 

[anna ~ grace]

Yes, of course. To simply respect Peter's authority yet disobey Holy Scripture penned by him would be silly.

Many Catholics know and study and heed Scripture, friend.

 

[HTacianas]

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If we allow that Peter is the rock upon which the Roman Catholic Church is built, and also allow that within the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy the apostle Peter is supreme in matters related to faith and practice; then we must also allow that Catholics will be thoroughly judged for their every failure to know, and to comply, with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

Failure to comply with Peter's instructions is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's. It's a domino effect all the way to the top.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

It matters little whether or not the apostle Peter is actually the rock that Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18. That debate is a red herring and a waste of perfectly good forum bytes.

What matters most to Catholics is whether they themselves sincerely believe Peter is that rock because then they are obligated to submit to his authority and comply with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

It's a terrible tragedy indeed for those Catholics who all their lifetimes defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell because they neglected to listen to him.

● Matt 16:19 . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
_

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by only the Catholics. Isn't all that true for everyone?

 

[redleghunter]

Peter did exercise the keys in Acts of the Apostles. He was the lead speaker on Pentecost, the lead on the Samaritans being sealed by the Holy Spirit, and was sent by Christ to the Gentiles (Cornelius and family).


I think we can say the Lord’s words that Peter would exercise the keys was fulfilled in Acts.

 

[Aussie Pete]

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If we allow that Peter is the rock upon which the Roman Catholic Church is built, and also allow that within the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy the apostle Peter is supreme in matters related to faith and practice; then we must also allow that Catholics will be thoroughly judged for their every failure to know, and to comply, with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

Failure to comply with Peter's instructions is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's. It's a domino effect all the way to the top.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

It matters little whether or not the apostle Peter is actually the rock that Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18. That debate is a red herring and a waste of perfectly good forum bytes.

What matters most to Catholics is whether they themselves sincerely believe Peter is that rock because then they are obligated to submit to his authority and comply with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

It's a terrible tragedy indeed for those Catholics who all their lifetimes defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell because they neglected to listen to him.

● Matt 16:19 . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
_

My Bible tells me that Lord Jesus is the Cornerstone. All the apostles were foundational builders. If Peter is so important, how come so little of his writing is recorded in God's word? And how come Peter proved to be so fallible that Paul had to rebuke him? I know that Roman Catholics have an answer for everything. They've been arguing their case for 1500 years. I still don't agree.

 

[Albion]

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What matters most to Catholics is whether they themselves sincerely believe Peter is that rock because then they are obligated to submit to his authority and comply with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

I like seeing a topic that we have not debated repeatedly, but I don't think this thesis about Peter works.

It's not as though he is believed to be worthy to be submitted to and complied with in every way. His epistles are, we know, part of the canon of Scripture and have the standing that the other Bible books do, but....

 

[concretecamper]

.
If we allow that Peter is the rock upon which the Roman Catholic Church is built, and also allow that within the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy the apostle Peter is supreme in matters related to faith and practice; then we must also allow that Catholics will be thoroughly judged for their every failure to know, and to comply, with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

Failure to comply with Peter's instructions is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's. It's a domino effect all the way to the top.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

It matters little whether or not the apostle Peter is actually the rock that Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18. That debate is a red herring and a waste of perfectly good forum bytes.

What matters most to Catholics is whether they themselves sincerely believe Peter is that rock because then they are obligated to submit to his authority and comply with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

It's a terrible tragedy indeed for those Catholics who all their lifetimes defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell because they neglected to listen to him.

● Matt 16:19 . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
_

I think we all will be judged on how we accepted or rejected the authority Christ established. And, it is gonna be a pretty hot destination for all (unrepentant) who rejected what Christ established by claiming they are their own authority or by following man made institutions.

 

[Charlie24]

.
If we allow that Peter is the rock upon which the Roman Catholic Church is built, and also allow that within the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy the apostle Peter is supreme in matters related to faith and practice; then we must also allow that Catholics will be thoroughly judged for their every failure to know, and to comply, with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

Failure to comply with Peter's instructions is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's. It's a domino effect all the way to the top.

● Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

It matters little whether or not the apostle Peter is actually the rock that Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18. That debate is a red herring and a waste of perfectly good forum bytes.

What matters most to Catholics is whether they themselves sincerely believe Peter is that rock because then they are obligated to submit to his authority and comply with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

It's a terrible tragedy indeed for those Catholics who all their lifetimes defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell because they neglected to listen to him.

● Matt 16:19 . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
_

Peter himself is not the rock that Christ built his church upon.

It was his statement, "you are the Christ, the Son ot the living God."

Peter wasn't even the head pastor of the church in Jerusalem, it was James.

 

[Tigger45]

The Apostle Peter ultimately submitted to the Apostle Paul and the collective church. We can only hope that that was a symbolic prophetic event.

 

[Albion]

Peter himself is not the rock that Christ built his church upon.

It was his statement, "you are the Christ, the Son ot the living God."

Peter wasn't even the head pastor of the church in Jerusalem, it was James.

That's what many people say in rebuttal to claims about Papal Supremacy, but the OP went further than that, further than the usual. It's this sort of view that is eyebrow-raising:

If we allow that...within the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy the apostle Peter is supreme in matters related to faith and practice; then we must also allow that Catholics will be thoroughly judged for their every failure to know, and to comply, with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

Failure to comply with Peter's instructions is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's.

 

[Charlie24]

That's what many people say in rebuttal to claims about Papal Supremacy, but the OP went further than that, further than the usual. It's this sort of view that is eyebrow-raising:

The OP is suggesting that the other side of the argument doesn't matter as long as the Catholics believe it.

They are ignoring that there is no biblical proof Peter was in Rome.

If he was the first Pope, surely there would be proof of such a claim.

But that doesn't matter if the Catholic deems it so.

 

[Albion]

The OP is suggesting that the other side of the argument doesn't matter as long as the Catholics believe it.

But the Catholics and their church don't believe it--not what the OP painted as the picture of Catholic belief concerning Peter. That was what I was referring to.

 

[thecolorsblend]

They are ignoring that there is no biblical proof Peter was in Rome

The absolute state of historical study.

 

[ewq1938]

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter G4074, and upon this rock G4073 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

G4074
?e´t???
Petros
pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

G4073
pe´t?a
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

It is clear that Peter was a rock, smaller than the mass of rock that Christ is building his church upon. Peter was part of the larger mass of rock, not the full rock of the church itself.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock G4073 was Christ.


G4073
pe´t?a
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

 

[concretecamper]

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter G4074, and upon this rock G4073 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

G4074
?e´t???
Petros
pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.

G4073
pe´t?a
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

It is clear that Peter was a rock, smaller than the mass of rock that Christ is building his church upon. Peter was part of the larger mass of rock, not the full rock of the church itself.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock G4073 was Christ.


G4073
pe´t?a
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.

Ah, the old gender misunderstanding. I thought people gave up that argument. Really, even the most staunch anti Catholics have abandoned that argument. It seems it lives on.

 

[ewq1938]

Ah, the old gender misunderstanding. I thought people gave up that argument. Really, even the most staunch anti Catholics have abandoned that argument. It seems it lives on.

It's a valid point that is ignored when the Greek isn't involved. Though the two words are similar, they have different meanings and yes they are different grammatical genders. One rock is larger than the other and that word is used for Christ, not Peter. This also isn't anti-Catholic just a factual understanding of the Greek.

 

[concretecamper]

Really, new material is needed. This must be from a book 50 years old

Peter the Rock