StTherese Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with "deceased" Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.
James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8 said:
Lets tie wad St Therese been trying to tell u.
1) St Paul says the prayers of the righteous is strong ( us sinners)
Not to be picky, but your first point is a bit of a paradox. While I understand the religious terminology explaining how the righteous may sin, I'm a new creature in Christ. Old things have passed away and everything is new again.
"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" Ephesians 2:6
I didn't elevate myself, I couldn't have possibly done that, but God did. He established me and every other born again son of God in the Heavenly places under the direct counsel of Christ Himself. While I am in this corruptible flesh, I am always prone to error. But I prefer to view myself from God's perspective; not as a sinner but:
"For He hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21
2)Jesus is able to converse with those saved in heaven
3) In revelations we hear abt prayers of the saints in heaven.
Rev 8:3-4 Another angel came and stood at the altar,
3 holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the
prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.
The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.
So to tie everything up. If St Paul feels our prayers are powerful what about those who are in heaven whereby their righteousness are perfected. Are thier prayers not more powerful. To say those in heaven cannot help us for they are dead, is to deny the premise of eternal life after death.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that those in heaven are dead, quite the contrary. I believe most who disagree with the Intercession of the Saints concept feel it borders somewhere dramatically near paganism.
We might consider King Saul's violation of the Law in his prayer to the prophet Samuel. Two things are different though. Saul went through a Medium to do it and Samuel was in paradise, not heaven (as were the other Patriarchs until Christ 'led captivity captive'). He had not yet been spiritually regenerated. Nevertheless, Saul was in the wrong to do it.
Saul was already in a state of rebellion to God. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, so it comes as no surprise that the king would literally resort to witchcraft instead of God. But had Saul not been in rebellion, he could have simply used the appropriate channel God had established to communicate...which is to say, Saul should have asked a living prophet instead of one that had passed on.
You might think its silly to bring this up because it isn't the same thing. Well, yes and no. Under the Law of Moses, this was a forbidden behavior. Aside from the Kaballistic notions the Hebrews picked up from the Chaldeans, there is nothing in God's Law that indicates the need for a relationship with those we succede. Remember, Jesus didn't come to do away with the Law, He came to fulfill it.
The Transfiguration is a completely different thing and may make more sense of the context of what resulted from it. It wasn't expressed as an intercessory event, but a revelatory event. The veil between heaven and earth was open for a moment and the disciples saw the revelation behind the veil. The Shekinah Glory of God was revealed in Christ and the Father spoke from heaven, validating the revelation of Christ as His Son. The revelation of Moses and Elijah revealed to the disciples the connection between the old covenant and the new covenant Christ had come to make with us. I'm not sure I can gather from it that we should have our own transfiguration experiences...that's a little spooky to me.
Having said that, let me shift the perspective a little. Regarding the agreement of the saints in prayer, this is a wonderful 'empowerment' the Lord has given us. But Jesus said:
"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 18:19
"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to His will, He heareth us:" 1 John 5:14
Here we see that a prayer lifted up according to God's will, WILL be heard. If were following God's will and praying according to it, the subject of "agreement of the saints" becomes a moot point because they already are in agreement with us.
I believe God wants a personal, individual relationship with us. It doesn't seem to say much of a family relationship when one has to ask their brother or sister to go speak to their father on their behalf.
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." Romans 8:15
THE ALMIGHTY is my daddy...I can run straight to Him when I fall down...I can run straight to Him when I'm hurting...I can run straight to Him when I'm afraid...I can run straight to Him when I need answers...I can run straight to Him because He's more than just The Father, He's my Daddy.
"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." Hebrews 4:14-16
Don't get me wrong, I love my brothers and sisters, living in the present age or not. But if I'm going to have a relationship with the Father, I don't need someone else in the family going between us...I don't want ANYTHING to come between us.
