• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Peter Is Not The Rock!

Status
Not open for further replies.

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
From a Catholic perspective we believe the Bible because of Tradition.


I am musing as to how Sola Scriptura people came to see the Bible as from God. I can only guess that someone they trusted in their life told it was and they simplied believed that person. However, I expect to get the answer that God told them. Since Jesus will not be here to tell us anything I am more than a little skeptical at answers like that. So the only reason I can think of anyone besides Catholics to believe the Bible is the Word of God is that some one in their life told them it is.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I am musing as to how Sola Scriptura people came to see the Bible as from God. I can only guess that someone they trusted in their life told it was and they simplied believed that person. However, I expect to get the answer that God told them. Since Jesus will not be here to tell us anything I am more than a little skeptical at answers like that. So the only reason I can think of anyone besides Catholics to believe the Bible is the Word of God is that some one in their life told them it is.
Greetings. Even if that were true, those that come to actually read and study the Word could see that much of what the RCs preach and teach is not according to Scripture. [that is if they can get their nose out of the RC Catechism:D]

I could be wrong, but if I cannot receive the communion in your denomination unless I sign up on the dotted line to pledge allegiance to the Pope, then I will just remain aloof from it.

2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the God and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging/krinein <2919> (5721) living and dead, according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him

Reve 11:18And the nations are angered, and came/hlqen <2064> (5627) Thy wrath, and the Time of the dead to be judged/kriqhnai <2919> (5683), and to give the wages toThy Bond-servants, the prophets, and to the Saints, and to those fearing Thy name, the small, and the great, and to blight the ones blighting the land

Reve 14:7 saying in great sound: "Be being fearful! of the God, and be Ye giving! to Him glory, that came the Hour of His judging. And worship Ye! to the One-making the heaven and the land and sea and springs of waters".
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Greetings. Even if that were true, those that come to actually read and study the Word could see that much of what the RCs preach and teach is not according to Scripture. [that is if they can get their nose out of the RC Catechism:D]

I could be wrong, but if I cannot receive the communion in your denomination unless I sign up on the dotted line to pledge allegiance to the Pope, then I will just remain aloof from it.

2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging/krinein <2919> (5721) living and dead, according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him

Reve 11:18And the nations are angered, and came/hlqen <2064> (5627) Thy wrath, and the Time of the dead to be judged/kriqhnai <2919> (5683), and to give the wages toThy Bond-servants, the prophets, and to the Saints, and to those fearing Thy name, the small, and the great, and to blight the ones blighting the land

Reve 14:7 saying in great sound: "Be being fearful! of the God, and be Ye giving! to Him glory, that came/ the Hourof His judging. And worship Ye! to the One-making the heaven and the land and sea and springs of waters".

Sound like you are upset. I do not know why you disapprove of the Catholic Church so much and I am sorry if some Catholic hurt you.

I also do not know of any teaching of the Catholic Church that cannot also be found in scripture to some degree?

I was thinking of your translations and how you enjoy studying the old language by trying to translate it to English. In all your personal study have you ever come across a definative reason that when Jesus said "This is my Body" that it was not his flesh?
 
Upvote 0

CaliforniaJosiah

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2005
17,496
1,568
✟229,195.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
I also do not know of any teaching of the Catholic Church that cannot also be found in scripture to some degree?

I'm SURE you are sincere in this, just as the Mormons are, but what I note is that the RCC says they are NOT necessarily found in Scripture in any objective sense (in the words God put there) BUT (and I think this is extremely significant) it itself alone decrees that such is IMPLIED in Scripture as it itself alone interprets such as it itself along arbitrates if self alone is correct (predeclaring that self can't be wrong). Thus, IMHO, the observation (while no doubt entirely sincere) is completely meaningless and moot.

What the RCC and LDS do is embrace the "three-legged-stool" (as Mormons call it) where as 3 things are embraced as the Rule/Canon/Norma Normans - EQUALLY and INSEPARABLY (that can't be stressed enough), so that none of the 3 "legs" are above or below the other, not ruling or accountable to or for any other. These 3 "legs" of the single norma normans are (as the RCC labels them):

1) Tradition as IT chooses, defines and interprets such at that moment, so as to agree with the teachings of itself (it is, effectively, the corpus of what that denomination affirms),
2) Scripture, not in any tome or document, but "in the heart" of the denomination itself alone - as it alone so interprets it so as to agree with #1.
3) The Leadership (Magisterium) of itself; the interpretations, rulings, applications of itself alone.
These THREE things form ONE UNITED norma normans, one source, one stream, so that no part of it can be at varience with any other (for they form one divine source, each equal and all inseparable). THUS, if RCC "Tradition" says something, Scripture and Magisterium MUST be in agreement (if only "implied" by "invisible words" only it itself can "see"). In THIS sense, it means that Scripture teaches whatever the RCC's Tradition or RCC's Magisterium teaches. It works exactly the same with the LDS.

IMHO, it's obvious that embracing the "Three-Legged-Stool" as Catholics and Mormons do, it is IMPOSSIBLE for Scripture to not teach what the Denomination teaches as the Denomination interprets and arbitrates - NOT because the Bible does but because the epistemology simply imputes it INTO Scripture as "implied."





Back to the discussion of whether the "keys" were given to Peter on the basis of Peter being Peter (thus they are still in his hands) or to Peter because of his confession (thus they are in the hands of all that share that confession).







.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Sound like you are upset. I do not know why you disapprove of the Catholic Church so much and I am sorry if some Catholic hurt you.

I also do not know of any teaching of the Catholic Church that cannot also be found in scripture to some degree?

I was thinking of your translations and how you enjoy studying the old language by trying to translate it to English. In all your personal study have you ever come across a definative reason that when Jesus said "This is my Body" that it was not his flesh?
Greetings. This thread isn't about the eucharist so you will excuse me if I do not present my view on it.

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=718
Sacramental/Ordinance Theology

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7149501&page=16
Real Presence in the Eucharist
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I'm SURE you are sincere in this, just as the Mormons are, but what I note is that the RCC says they are NOT necessarily found in Scripture in any objective sense (in the words God put there) BUT (and I think this is extremely significant) it itself alone decrees that such is IMPLIED in Scripture as it itself alone interprets such as it itself along arbitrates if self alone is correct (predeclaring that self can't be wrong). Thus, IMHO, the observation (while no doubt entirely sincere) is completely meaningless and moot.

Scripture says that it does not contasin all that Jesus taught. Scripture also says to keep not only the written but also the oral tradition of the Apostles. The Word says this and it cannot be wrong. Yet from this statement it seems that you are saying that the Word is wrong. Do you mind clarifying this?
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Back to the discussion of whether the "keys" were given to Peter on the basis of Peter being Peter (thus they are still in his hands) or to Peter because of his confession (thus they are in the hands of all that share that confession).

The confession???

Scripture has been interpretation many different ways for Matthew 16.

One very plausible explanation is that Matthew stated something that could have only come from God the Father. By stating this he (Peter) made it plain that God the Father chose Peter to be the head Apostle. It is confirmed by Jesus to all that Peter is to be in charge of the KIngdom of Heaven by bestowing the Keys to Heaven and Earth as a sign of this power. Scripture forms the words so as to show their connection to Davidic times when the King had a Steward of the Kingdom who had the power to make decisions for the King when the KIng was not available or away. This steward also held a position as a Father to the people. If you refer to Isaiah 22 you will see the similiarity in word play that we have in Matthew 16.

Now this is one of the many interpretations available to people. It is also a very plausiblke explanation. It is also the one I believe in and it is Catholic.
 
Upvote 0
F

Flibbertigibbet

Guest
I think my post got buried several pages back. :D

I truly am interested in a response to this:

Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic
Try reading Matthew 16 in Aramaic since that is what it would have been written in originally (or at the very least the language Jesus spoke to the Jews). You will find that Peter and Rock are the same word. Jesus changed Simon's name to Rock much like how God changed Abrahms name to Abraham.
Repeatedly, throughout Scripture, Jesus Himself is referred to as the cornerstone.

Does the entire argument hang upon this one verse? And one which, you indicate in your post, may have been originally WRITTEN in the Greek? And if there is no evidence that this verse was ever WRITTEN in Aramaic, do you then disagree that all Scripture is God-breathed and divinely inspired so as to make the petros/petras distinction quite valid?

Also, where are the writings from the other Apostles which confirm Peter as the rock upon which the Church will be built? I don't find them in any of the translations I have studied.

(sorry if this sounds argumentative, that's not my intent. I'm typing hurriedly as my toddler is calling me)
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
The Word of Yahuweh can't be any plainer than this.

What follows is important. Petros/Peter isn&#8217;t the petra/bedrock. The recognition that "Yahushua is the Messiah, the Son of the living God," is the foundation upon which the ekklesia/called-out assembly would be restored and established. Beyond the evidence sprinkled throughout the Tanach, identifying the Rock with Yahshua, "Petros" was a man and every reference to "petra/bedrock" is feminine.

"Indeed (de), I (kago) say (logos) concerning this (hoti - as a marker of equivalence for identifying and explaining this) to you (soi), you (su) are (ei) Petros (a masculine proper noun meaning pebble or stone), and (kai) upon/by/in/with (epi - "upon" when used with things that are at rest, "by" when used in relationship to people, "with" when used in connection with authority, and "in" used in reference to an observation) this one (taute - singular feminine demonstrative pronoun) Rock (petra - bedrock, a feminine noun; a large stone which projects itself) I shall build by edifying, promoting, and restoring (oikodomeo - rebuild and establish, strengthen and enable, instruct and improve) My (mou) called out gathering (ekklesia)." (Matthew 16:18)

English translations all leave "hoti/concerning this" out of their renderings of Yahshua&#8217;s answer. Had it been included, no rational person would have thought that Petros, rather than his answer, was the foundation of the ekklesia. The source of edification and restoration is the Savior, not his flawed and imperfect disciple.
.
Greetings. I have never thought about the greek word #1161 being "indeed", as I have usually translated it as "yet". Interesting.

Matt 16:18 `And I yet to thee am saying, that thou art Peter, and upon this/tauth <3778>, the rock/petra <4073> I shall be building of Me the 0ut-called, and gates of Hades not shall be prevailing of her;

1161. de deh a primary particle (adversative or continuative); but, and, etc.:--also, and, but, moreover, now (often unexpressed in English).

Textus Rec.) Matthew 16:18 kagw de soi legw oti su ei petroV kai epi tauth th petra oikodomhsw mou thn ekklhsian kai pulai adou ou katiscusousin authV
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I think my post got buried several pages back. :D

I truly am interested in a response to this:

Originally Posted by JacktheCatholic
Try reading Matthew 16 in Aramaic since that is what it would have been written in originally (or at the very least the language Jesus spoke to the Jews). You will find that Peter and Rock are the same word. Jesus changed Simon's name to Rock much like how God changed Abrahms name to Abraham.
Repeatedly, throughout Scripture, Jesus Himself is referred to as the cornerstone.

Does the entire argument hang upon this one verse? And one which, you indicate in your post, may have been originally WRITTEN in the Greek? And if there is no evidence that this verse was ever WRITTEN in Aramaic, do you then disagree that all Scripture is God-breathed and divinely inspired so as to make the petros/petras distinction quite valid?

Also, where are the writings from the other Apostles which confirm Peter as the rock upon which the Church will be built? I don't find them in any of the translations I have studied.

(sorry if this sounds argumentative, that's not my intent. I'm typing hurriedly as my toddler is calling me)

Your questions are good ones and ones that are best answered independantly. It would also involve Christian history and letters between churches from the first 300 years of Christianity. At least the writings that have survived. But the claim I have made is indeed backed by historical evidence and has backing in scripture as to Peter's position. One other example is when Peter was talking to Jesus and Jesus told Peter to feed his sheep, to be the Shephard of Jesus' flock. The theology is there and is very plausible. It is only whether you choose to believe it or not. I have found that some people deny it simply because they do not want to believe it. I find others will even disregard every shred of historical evidence for the sake of their personal belief. But, in fact there is nothing that can show that what I have claimed is impossible. So if we are to be objective and truthful then we have to agree that my claim is possibly the true one.
 
Upvote 0

Brennin

Wielder of the Holy Cudgel of Faith
Aug 2, 2005
8,016
376
California
Visit site
✟10,548.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The confession???

Scripture has been interpretation many different ways for Matthew 16.

One very plausible explanation is that Matthew stated something that could have only come from God the Father. By stating this he (Peter) made it plain that God the Father chose Peter to be the head Apostle. It is confirmed by Jesus to all that Peter is to be in charge of the KIngdom of Heaven by bestowing the Keys to Heaven and Earth as a sign of this power. Scripture forms the words so as to show their connection to Davidic times when the King had a Steward of the Kingdom who had the power to make decisions for the King when the KIng was not available or away. This steward also held a position as a Father to the people. If you refer to Isaiah 22 you will see the similiarity in word play that we have in Matthew 16.

Now this is one of the many interpretations available to people. It is also a very plausiblke explanation. It is also the one I believe in and it is Catholic.

Jesus extends the same authority to the rest of the apostles in Matthew 18:18. Peter is "first among equals," no more and no less.
 
Upvote 0

Anglian

let us love one another, for love is of God
Oct 21, 2007
8,092
1,246
Held
✟28,241.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Dear Jack,

If we go back to the OP, and to some of the earlier posts, we see that the ECFs took the view that Rome had a primacy of honour; it is the definition of what that means which has contributed to the problems in the Church.

If we look at another of the pillars of Holy Tradition, the Councils, we can see from the canons of Nicaea that Rome was not, at that time, claiming jurisdictional authority over, for example, Alexandria (look at canon 6). That said, Alexandria certainly consulted Rome, as did the other Patriarchal Sees, so to argue that in the early Church Rome was not primus inter pares would be wrong.

What we see before the fifth century is a tradition of honour to Rome which, before then, needed no close definition as no one claimed anything attached to it by way of jurisdiction. However, with the collapse of the Western Empire, it became very important in the West that Rome, as the sole Apostolic See, was recognised as having jurisdictional authority. At no point before the sixteenth century did people in the West challenge that; those in the West who departed from that custom and practice have their reasons for so doing; nonetheless, they did depart from ancient custom.

In the East, where there was no collapse of the Empire, and where Rome had not had jurisdictional authority, the claims of Leo I were heard, but not concurred with. It was only with the Arab invasions and the disappearance from the scene of Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, that the trouble between Constantinople and Rome began to become severe. The other Sees had always played a collegial role; without them there were two centres, using two different languages and with two different secular powers; it is hardly surprising that trouble came.

So, to sum up. The East is right to claim it never understood the Petrine verses as giving the Bishop of Rome more than a primacy of honour; but then it has never defined what that means. The West is also right in claiming that its understanding of the Petrine claims developed as they have; but its definition is not, I suspect, as well understood as it ought to be; the looseness with which non-Catholics write about Infallibility often suggest a reaction to a particular notion of what it means rather than an accurate appreciation of its reality.

This explains why all sides in this dispute can stake a claim for their own tradition; we are, in fact, dealing with different traditions which interpret an originally broad and vague understanding (what, after all, does primacy of honour actually mean?) with more precision than it was given in times when everyone thought they knew what it meant.

peace,

Anglian
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Jesus extends the same authority to the rest of the apostles in Matthew 18:18. Peter is "first among equals," no more and no less.

Yes he does give the authority to bind and loose. They did not receive this authority when Jesus gave it to Peter. Nor did Jesus say anything about the Keys of the Kingdom in Matthew 18. In fact you will not find anywhere in scripture where Jesus relates the Keys to the other Apostles. It is only by an individuals choice to read in to the text something that is not clear to them that we find people saying the other Apostles received the Keys as well.

It is a common error or choice (depending on how you view it). Even the Early Church had great men that said the other Apsotles had use of the Keys or had Keys. In those letters you will still find that Peter had more power then the other Apsotles. That should be sufficient for now. :)
 
Upvote 0

JacktheCatholic

Praise be to Jesus Christ. Now and forever.
Mar 9, 2007
24,545
2,797
57
Michigan, USA
Visit site
✟51,888.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Dear Jack,

If we go back to the OP, and to some of the earlier posts, we see that the ECFs took the view that Rome had a primacy of honour; it is the definition of what that means which has contributed to the problems in the Church.

If we look at another of the pillars of Holy Tradition, the Councils, we can see from the canons of Nicaea that Rome was not, at that time, claiming jurisdictional authority over, for example, Alexandria (look at canon 6). That said, Alexandria certainly consulted Rome, as did the other Patriarchal Sees, so to argue that in the early Church Rome was not primus inter pares would be wrong.

What we see before the fifth century is a tradition of honour to Rome which, before then, needed no close definition as no one claimed anything attached to it by way of jurisdiction. However, with the collapse of the Western Empire, it became very important in the West that Rome, as the sole Apostolic See, was recognised as having jurisdictional authority. At no point before the sixteenth century did people in the West challenge that; those in the West who departed from that custom and practice have their reasons for so doing; nonetheless, they did depart from ancient custom.

In the East, where there was no collapse of the Empire, and where Rome had not had jurisdictional authority, the claims of Leo I were heard, but not concurred with. It was only with the Arab invasions and the disappearance from the scene of Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, that the trouble between Constantinople and Rome began to become severe. The other Sees had always played a collegial role; without them there were two centres, using two different languages and with two different secular powers; it is hardly surprising that trouble came.

So, to sum up. The East is right to claim it never understood the Petrine verses as giving the Bishop of Rome more than a primacy of honour; but then it has never defined what that means. The West is also right in claiming that its understanding of the Petrine claims developed as they have; but its definition is not, I suspect, as well understood as it ought to be; the looseness with which non-Catholics write about Infallibility often suggest a reaction to a particular notion of what it means rather than an accurate appreciation of its reality.

This explains why all sides in this dispute can stake a claim for their own tradition; we are, in fact, dealing with different traditions which interpret an originally broad and vague understanding (what, after all, does primacy of honour actually mean?) with more precision than it was given in times when everyone thought they knew what it meant.

peace,

Anglian

Anglian, my dear brother, I have to head out to my son's soccer game. But I am going to answer this as soon as I return. I want you and every one to know that I honor and respect the EOC and OOC positions. I hold them in very high regard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Otto
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Anglian, my dear brother, I have to head out to my son's soccer game. But I am going to answer this as soon as I return. I want you and every one to know that I honor and respect the EOC and OOC positions. I hold them in very high regard.
What about the rest of us :confused: ^_^
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Otto
Upvote 0
B

bbbbbbb

Guest
Your questions are good ones and ones that are best answered independantly. It would also involve Christian history and letters between churches from the first 300 years of Christianity. At least the writings that have survived. But the claim I have made is indeed backed by historical evidence and has backing in scripture as to Peter's position. One other example is when Peter was talking to Jesus and Jesus told Peter to feed his sheep, to be the Shephard of Jesus' flock. The theology is there and is very plausible. It is only whether you choose to believe it or not. I have found that some people deny it simply because they do not want to believe it. I find others will even disregard every shred of historical evidence for the sake of their personal belief. But, in fact there is nothing that can show that what I have claimed is impossible. So if we are to be objective and truthful then we have to agree that my claim is possibly the true one.

Indeed, all things are possible, but not all things are probable. It is quite possible that Trento is God, however I think most of us would agree that it is highly improbable that he really is. What you have stated is a truism that your view, along with everyone else's view on this matter, is possible. The real question ought to be how probable is it? Do you care to offer any ideas on that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Otto
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yes he does give the authority to bind and loose. They did not receive this authority when Jesus gave it to Peter. Nor did Jesus say anything about the Keys of the Kingdom in Matthew 18. In fact you will not find anywhere in scripture where Jesus relates the Keys to the other Apostles. It is only by an individuals choice to read in to the text something that is not clear to them that we find people saying the other Apostles received the Keys as well.

It is a common error or choice (depending on how you view it). Even the Early Church had great men that said the other Apsotles had use of the Keys or had Keys. In those letters you will still find that Peter had more power then the other Apsotles. That should be sufficient for now. :)

No one has tried to say the others recieved the keys Jack, but by common choice or error, sectarian supremacism is served by not recognizing that the authority conferred to the others in Matt 18 is exactly the same as the authority symbolized by the keys figuratively given to Peter.:cool:
 
Upvote 0

Rick Otto

The Dude Abides
Nov 19, 2002
34,112
7,406
On The Prairie
✟29,593.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Indeed, all things are possible, but not all things are probable. It is quite possible that Trento is God, however I think most of us would agree that it is highly improbable that he really is. What you have stated is a truism that your view, along with everyone else's view on this matter, is possible. The real question ought to be how probable is it? Do you care to offer any ideas on that?
Trento is the CF god of cut & paste.:bow:
(& of quoting Catholicised "Protestant scholars".)
 
Upvote 0

beamishboy

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2008
5,475
255
30
✟6,878.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Conservative
What about the rest of us :confused: ^_^

Don't you know that throughout history, those who follow the Word of God are always hated, despised and persecuted? We know what he thinks of the rest of us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Otto
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.