Peter Is Not The Rock!

[LittleLambofJesus]

You deny Jesus and the authors of the scriptures. You do not deny me. I take no offense at your snide remark. I love you still and will pray for your conversion of heart. God's mercy is infinite as He is and he will forgive any crime if you ask. Isn't that awesome?

Luke 18:20 The commandments thou have known, no thou should be committing adultery, no thou should be murdering/foneushV <5407> (5661), no thou should be stealing, no thou should be bearing false witness. Be honouring thy father and thy mother.

James 5:6 Ye condemn, ye murder/efoneusate <5407> (5656) the Righteous-One, not He is resisting to Ye.

Revelation 9:21 And not they reform/metenohsan <3340> (5656) out of the Murders/fonwn <5408> of them, nor out from their sorceries/far-makeiwn <5331>

 

[beamishboy]

So what are we trying to prove here? The Catholic church was founded by Peter but does that mean that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic church just because other churches are not in apostolic succeession? Curious as to what you guys think on the matter.

It does not matter who started the denomination. RCs always claim that their church was the original one but that is disputed quite easily. The fact is they have departed so far from apostolic teaching that to call them the original is a mockery of what original means.

When the previous Pope was shot by a gunman, the Pope was certain that the Lady of Fatima saved him. Upon recovery, he went to Fatima and freshly crowned the idol of Mary there. Where is God in all this? Where is Jesus? I've heard the hymn "Crown Him with many crowns" but I certainly have not heard "Crown Her"!!!

Crowning Mary is very much a part of RC official theology. She was made Queen of Heaven by the RC church in about 1000AD. On the day of her Coronation, you can see her statue paraded all over towns as devotees crowd round to pay homage.

Do you think that is New Testament Christianity? Just consult your heart and if you think that is what Peter and Paul would have done, go ahead - the RC church is meant for you. You may think why was Mary not even mentioned once in the Epistles - any of the epistles; not even one mention. The RCs will tell you that she was mentioned orally and not in writing. Peter and Paul whispered to other church leaders the manner of venerating Mary (and all the other saints) but did not put those bits in writing. If you believe that, the RC church is for you.

Bear in mind that this is only the tip of the iceberg. There are many more dogmas and doctrines of the RC church that some might not agree with.

 

[Alethes]

Believing Peter is the Rock is irrational and delusional. The evidence of Yahuweh's Word is irrevocable/irrefutable and supercedes, trumps, pre-empts, negates, refutes, and proves to be a lie all that oppose/contradict it, whether said opposition is human or church dogma.

I totally agree. The Church in the Gospels was built by Jesus Christ himself, who was the bridegroom and the called out of Israel, are the bride.

 

[Zoness]

BIG TEXT

Yeah I know a lot about the dogmas I was raised in the Catholic church and now working on becoming an Anglican. I was simply curious as to the ends and means of this debate and I agree about the bizarre changes in the church over time.

The rock how I interpet it is "the church" as in the entire kingdom of believers be them Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Bear in mind that this is only the tip of the iceberg. There are many more dogmas and doctrines of the RC church that some might not agree with.

Like this one?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6895541&page=43
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

 

[beamishboy]

Like this one?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6895541&page=43
Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma

Wow, I didn't know this one. Thanks!!! More ammunition in the beamishboy's gun now!!! Don't you think the RCC is truly .... amazing?

 

[bbbbbbb]

You think Hell is a joking matter?

God allowed three children to see a short vision of Hell and this is what they said they saw:

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fatima

I most assuredly do not consider the lake of fire to be a joking matter. I do consider the condemnation of your demonation of me and LLoJ to be absurd, however. I give no credence to the account you provided, but I do take Revelation 20 quite seriously. In it I do not see anything remotely related to the condermnation the Catholic church heaps upon those of us who reject its peculiar dogmas.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I most assuredly do not consider the lake of fire to be a joking matter.

Glad to hear it.

 

[Zoness]

To deny Peter as the rock is to deny Jesus.

So everyone outside of the Catholic church is doomed to hell?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I most assuredly do not consider the lake of fire to be a joking matter. I do consider the condemnation of your demonation of me and LLoJ to be absurd, however. I give no credence to the account you provided, but I do take Revelation 20 quite seriously. In it I do not see anything remotely related to the condermnation the Catholic church heaps upon those of us who reject its peculiar dogmas.

Greetings. I am beginning to view that mysterious "Great City/Harlot" as the symbolic Lake of Fire. I have a folder just on it.

Reve 19:3 and a second time They have declared "Hallelujah and the Smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages"

Reve 19:20 and is arrested the wild-beast and with it the false-prophet, the one-doing the signs in view of it, in which he deceives the ones getting the mark of the wild beast and the ones worshipping to the image of it, living were cast, the two, into the Lake of the Fire the one burning in sulphur.

Reve 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting/basanismou <929> of them into ages of ages is ascending, and not they are having rest of day and of night the ones worshipping the wild beast and the image of it and if anyone is getting the image of the name of it.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7164949&page=2
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

 

[JacktheCatholic]

So everyone outside of the Catholic church is doomed to hell?

I am very curious as to your math. How did you reach this conclusion???

 

[Zoness]

I am very curious as to your math. How did you reach this conclusion???

By your logic Denying Peter as the Rock -> Denying Jesus then theoretically doesn't that condemn you to hell?

 

[Brennin]

Nope the Scriptures call Him the Rock.

And he was the Bishop of Rome.

Peace

I agree with the former but not the latter. There is not one scintilla of credible evidence that Peter was ever bishop of Rome.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

By your logic Denying Peter as the Rock -> Denying Jesus then theoretically doesn't that condemn you to hell?

I think I understand how you got derailed.

First, people deny Jesus all the time and Jesus forgives them as soon as they ask for forgiveness. So that is in no way a straight ticket to Hell. Peter denied Jesus three times and Jesus forgave Peter and then entrusted Peter to take care of His sheep, made Peter the shephard of His flock.

Just understand that Jesus gave Peter his name of 'Rock' and it was a name never used before and it was very symbolic of what Jesus was doing. Symbolic like changing Abrhams name to Abraham. So I was saying that if you deny that Jesus did this then it is Jesus that you are denying. Of course I should consider that you do not find scripture to be the Word of God and can have error, in which case you would be less culpable to denying Jesus' authority.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I agree with the former but not the latter. There is not one scintilla of credible evidence that Peter was ever bishop of Rome.

Not counting Peter's body being in Rome with vast documentation from Roman authorities and Chrisitans and others?

What do you consider evidence?

 

[Brennin]

Talk is cheap.



That's not what Scriptures says. They call St. Peter the Rock.

It's also a historical fact that he was in Rome

Peace

Being martyred in Rome, which is what 1 Clement claims, is not the same as being "pope."

 

[Zoness]

Ok that sort of makes sense.

Of course I should consider that you do not find scripture to be the Word of God and can have error, in which case you would be less culpable to denying Jesus' authority.

Ok you had me convinced until this, huh?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Ok that sort of makes sense.



Ok you had me convinced until this, huh?

LOL

Sorry... it takes time to learn Catholicism because it is 2,000 years old and full of history and language that most are not familiar with and do not understand. I would have said the same thing about 5 years ago.

Do not worry about that last part...

 

[Brennin]

Not counting Peter's body being in Rome with vast documentation from Roman authorities and Chrisitans and others?

What do you consider evidence?

Peter's body? I give that claim about as much credibility as the multiple, mutually exclusive claims of many RC churches to the "Holy Prepuce." But even if the RCC had Peter's body, that would at most prove he died in Rome.

 

[Zoness]

LOL

Sorry... it takes time to learn Catholicism because it is 2,000 years old and full of history and language that most are not familiar with and do not understand. I would have said the same thing about 5 years ago.

Do not worry about that last part...

Psh don't throw elitism at me I was simply curious. No more of this.