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I see the Peter threads are coming back to the front again 
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Sorry Charlie: Incorrect.Not a process or event. It is just knowing you are a sinner and that Christ died for you. Then being a good tree good fruit will follow.
Apastolic succession etc is nothing more than a man made concept that bears no resemblance to the early church.
Sorry Charlie: Incorrect.
The Bible says I am saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:58), but it also says I am being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and that I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:910, 1 Cor. 3:1215). Salvation is an ongoing process.
So, like the apostle Paul, we are working out our salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:1113).
The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.Apastolic succession etc is nothing more than a man made concept that bears no resemblance to the early church.
You would make a fine Orthodox......Our doors are always open for you dear friend. COME OUT OF HER!!!The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.
Sorry Charlie: Incorrect.
The Bible says I am saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:58), but it also says I am being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and that I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:910, 1 Cor. 3:1215). Salvation is an ongoing process.
So, like the apostle Paul, we are working out our salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:1113).
Matthew
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
You cannot save yourself only God can choose to save you.
Mark 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
Mark 5:34
He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."
Luke 5:20
When Jesus saw their faith, he said, "Friend, your sins are forgiven."
Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then he said to him, "Rise and go; your faith has made you well."
Luke 18:42
Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has healed you."
Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Romans 3:22
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
Romans 4:9
Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Romans 4:13
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
Romans 14:2
One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
Hey, you know what? Our Church allows us to receive communion in an Orthodox Church, but my understanding is that the Orthodox won't allow us to. Is that right? What's up with that?You would make a fine Orthodox......Our doors are always open for you dear friend.
Is that the old LLoJ?COME OUT OF HER!!!![]()
For a "seeker" you seem to have all the answers.Also on faith.
The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.
Apostolic succession is the line of bishops stretching back to the apostles. All over the world, all Catholic bishops are part of a lineage that goes back to the time of the apostles, something that is impossible in Protestant denominations (most of which do not even claim to have bishops).
The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic successionhis own generation, Timothys generation, and the generation Timothy will teach.
The Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, regularly appealed to apostolic succession as a test for whether Catholics or heretics had correct doctrine. This was necessary because heretics simply put their own interpretations, even bizarre ones, on Scripture. Clearly, something other than Scripture had to be used as an ultimate test of doctrine in these cases.
Thus the early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes, "[W]here in practice was [the] apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it" (Early Christian Doctrines, 37).
For the early Fathers, "the identity of the oral tradition with the original revelation is guaranteed by the unbroken succession of bishops in the great sees going back lineally to the apostles. . . . [A]n additional safeguard is supplied by the Holy Spirit, for the message committed was to the Church, and the Church is the home of the Spirit. Indeed, the Churchs bishops are . . . Spirit-endowed men who have been vouchsafed an infallible charism of truth" (ibid.).
Thus on the basis of experience the Fathers could be "profoundly convinced of the futility of arguing with heretics merely on the basis of Scripture. The skill and success with which they twisted its plain meaning made it impossible to reach any decisive conclusion in that field" (ibid., 41).
Don't make me put those verses in my siggy. Remember, I helped ya'll out with the SDA'sHey, you know what? Our Church allows us to receive communion in an Orthodox Church, but my understanding is that the Orthodox won't allow us to. Is that right? What's up with that?
Is that the old LLoJ?
For a "seeker" you seem to have all the answers.
I guess I don't really understand how this preserves doctrine. The linage isn't physical or literal it is just assumed that you will teach true doctrine if you become a bishop, which is my understanding of it. But there have been many heretical bishops throughout time too so it's either an imperfect model or irrelevant.
Try some of these:Regardless, it doesn't affect me either way I am just trying to understand the concept more. Hard to believe I was raised in Catholicism![]()
Yep.You always have a choice.. you may not like the reactions from your fellow man, but then neither did Yeshua, but He did the right thing anyway.
This "semi-Calvinist" agrees.You always have a choice.. you may not like the reactions from your fellow man, but then neither did Yeshua, but He did the right thing anyway.
This "semi-Calvinist" agrees.
I'm "full-Calvinist" on soteriology, but I part ways with him on sacramentology & ecclesiology, especialy in the area of church discipline.
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